I'll be hunting elephant and cape buffalo in the Caprivi Strip in less than a month. I'm more excited than a quarterback on prom night. I'll be using my iron sighted .500 A-Square rifle built for me by AHR.

Since so many of you have helped me in so many ways, from offering advice on the best, or at least most practical, .500 bolt rifle caliber, to advice on the right barrel length and rifle weight, to advice on reloading dies, developing loads, regulating the sights, and on and on, I thought I would let you know how things have finally worked out.

After playing around with RL-15 for awhile, I have decided to switch horses and use H4350 for my hunting loads.

If anything, it's even less sensitive to temperature variations than RL-15, and is a bit slower, so it makes for compressed powder charges with my chosen loads, which are less than maximum.

I'll be shooting the Woodleigh 600 grain steel jacketed solids for elephant and the Protected Point Weldcore softs for buff.

These bullets, loaded into BeLL cases (all properly headstamped by Qual-Cart), filled with 116 grains of H4350 and capped with Fed. 215 primers, fly out the muzzle of my 25" barrel at a chronographed 2,300 fps and develop 7,000 ft.-lbs. of striking energy.

These loads aren't gentle, but they're way less than maximum and are manageable. I've managed to get off four aimed shots (one up the spout and three down in the magazine), from a standing, off-hand position, at both 25 and 50 yards, with good accuracy and speed.

The trick is holding the rifle HARD through the shot, and hanging onto it through the recoil JUST long enough to manage and control it, then letting go of the grip with the right hand to cycle the bolt hard and fast as she comes down out of recoil and back onto the target.

When I do that right, it's BAHHHM!--click, clack, ping, clack, click--BAHHHM!--click, clack, ping, clack, click--BAHHHM!--click, clack, ping, clack, click--BAHHHM! And no, the clicks and clacks and pings are not my teeth rattling!

My heavy loads using 110 grains of RL-15 and the same bullets were awesome, but not quite as manageable. I was getting over 2,400 fps (and no pressure signs), and the bullets went where I pointed, but recoil recovery time was a bit slower.

Now, if only just one of those old, wandering Angola or Botswana hundred pounders would cooperate! Thanks to all and wish me luck!

MR,

The very best of hunting luck to you!

Have you considered wearing a leather glove on your left hand to increase your purchase on the fore-end?

George

MR
Good luck on your hunt.

mrlexma,

Good luck next month. I like the way you are using sound thinking instead of ego, as to which load to use. A max load is not always the "best load". Do not forget to do some blind reloading drills also.(not looking at the rifle)


Hog Killer

MR - sounds like you have chosen a good load for your 500 - does your rifle "burn" all the powder (H4350) or does it leave some behind ? Found mine to leave significant residual powder with both IMR and H 4350, especially when using the lighter 535 grain woodleighs - so I am staying with the 570 barnes and the 600 woodleigh with rl15 - if you are not using a sling, you might want to give it a try for the multiple shots - good luck and safe hunting, look forward to your trip photos - KMule

With the 500 jeffe (which I have, and nearly the same) anything over 2200 with 600s is rough and "Gravy".. the 570 barnes solids and X bullets (ifyou can find them) are excellent

if 2200 is far easier to shoot, I would go there

jeffe

quote:

The trick is holding the rifle HARD through the shot, and hanging onto it through the recoil JUST long enough to manage and control it, then letting go of the grip with the right hand to cycle the bolt hard and fast as she comes down out of recoil and back onto the target.

You figured that out all by yourself? Impressive, most impressive! How quickly can you reacquire the target for the second and third shots?

With 600 gr bullets 2200 fps is all you need, really. I an surprised that your 500 A Sqaure gets 2300 fps from 116 gr of H4350. I need 117 gr of that powder to get 2200 fps. To get 2300 fps takes 121 grs of H4350. My barrel is a couple inches longer than yours too.

Anyway, I hope you have a great hunt!

Good luck and good hunting.
ASS_CLOWN

GeorgeS--Thanks. I generally do wear a pair of Uncle Mike's fingerless gloves while hunting. It's easier when crawling around, etc., and you're right in that it also makes for a good grip on the rifle.

N E 450 No2--Thanks.

Hog Killer--Thanks, and no worries about me going with max loads for ego's sake. But it is fun to see what any given rifle will do in that department--before backing off to something sensible.

KMuleinAK--Thanks. I have found that the H4350 burns "dirty," but all of it seems to combust. How long is your barrel? I haven't seen any unburned powder in the bore of mine. I'm not crazy about the RL-15 loads because I have to back off to 105 grains to get to 2,300, and then the powder shakes around loose in the case.

And like many I think that a compressed load of extruded powder is a good thing. It promotes more consistent combustion and also the compressed powder column (along with a good crimp, of course) supports the bullets at the bottom of the magazine against the effects of recoil.

Also, since my rifle has a barrel band sling swivel, I'm afraid that shooting from a tight sling would change POI on me. I haven't tried it, though.

jeffeosso--I haven't gone as slow as 2,200 yet. My slowest loads so far have been about 2,250, and I haven't noticed any difference in recoil between those and 2,300. And I am able to handle 2,300 well enough. So, thanks but I'll stick with it. The real test is coming up soon enough!

Left to Right: .338 Win. Mag.; .375 H&H Mag.; .416 Rem. Mag.; .416 Rigby; .458 Lott; .500 A-Square (solid); .500 A-Square (soft).

MR,
Seems fine if you are set on using the round nose Woodleigh, but that soft is better for a 2100 fps velocity of the NE at close range, and the round nose solids are proven to penetrate less than a flat nose solid like a Bridger.

Temperature stability in my experience chronographing from 20 degrees to 90 degrees F: H4350 Extreme is tops, at about 1/2 fps per degree F.

RL-15 is about 1 fps per degree F.

Varget Extreme is tops too at about 1/2 fps per degree F.

IMR 4350: 2 fps per degree F. Just my observations.

I like RL-15 in the 500 A2, and might like Varget even better.

110 grains of H4350 Extreme is the top powder for the 500 A2 using 705gr (Harlow by AAA) to 750gr (A-Max by Hornady) bullets at roughly
2100 fps in my 23" barrel and 2200 fps in my 27" barrel.

110 grains of RL-15 in my 23" barrel:
with the 570gr Barnes XLC: 2400 fps
with the 570gr GSC FN: 2350 fps

Varget may be the best powder of all for 500A2 with 570gr to 600gr bullets. I haven't tried it yet.

It is a wee bit slower than RL-15, and can be used at 100% density with the longer copper and brass bullets like the Barnes XLC, GSC FN and HV (if they are ever delivered again) and of course the top bullet extant for any "500" would be the Bridger brass FN solid.

I am sure you will do well with what you have going now, but it is not the best that it could be. At least Woodleighs are easily available, eh?

RIP--Thanks, I think. I say, each to his own taste, in bullets and powders as in everything else.

MR - I shoot a 22" barrel, get 2365 fps with 110 grains of Re15 and the barnes 570 xlc - seems like many folks "reference" load so I had to compare in my rifle. Anything over 2200 fps should stop a greyhound bus (although, for the record, I have not bloodied my 500 yet) - KMule

Guys,
you really need to try this beast at 2200 fps. I can't tell you "recoil falls by X%" but I can tell you it's the difference between an all day session at the range and a 15-20 shot one.

(this is kidding fellas)
if you can't tell the diff in 2300fps 570 or 600gr, and a 2200fps load, then the recoil is kicking you senseless!!

Jeffeosso,

It is pointless to argue with a know-it-all like Mrlexma. Let him enjoy his 2300 fps, it truly doesn't matter one way or the other.

ASS_CLOWN

Scott,
I'll say this once, please don't post or speak to me.

jeff

MR. Good luck on your hunt I'm certain at the very least you will have the time of your life. That is unlesss you really were the quarterback on prom night

Your choice of loads and ammo will serve you well. Now go get em and enjoy.

John

Jeff,

I only posted these last few times because you invoked my name, at least through reference of "favorite troll". You are familiar with the old saying about "speakin' of the devil" aren't you?

ASS_CLOWN

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:
Jeffeosso,

It is pointless to argue with a know-it-all like Mrlexma. Let him enjoy his 2300 fps, it truly doesn't matter one way or the other.

I am an IMBECILE!

ASS_CLOWN

Is there a good reason you show up to attack other Members and moderators?

Either post something positive or be GONE.

Thanks,
Don

Don,

I guess I will be gone then.

I find it extremely hypocritical, however that you chastise me for my comments while saying nothing to Jeff who has over the course of several years liabled me to no friggin' end.

Perhaps you could ban me as you did Clark. Think of the brownie points that would score for you!

ASS_CLOWN

MR those 500 loads look good.
What is the weight of the 500 rifle?

In any case....

MR is the one who has the 500 A2 (and a nice batch of other hardware BTW), has worked up the loads & likes what he's got, and is the one going elephant hunting in a month --- what more can one ask?

MR, good luck on your trip!

below is Scott's exact quote

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:
Don,

I guess I will be gone then.

I find it extremely hypocritical, however that you chastise me for my comments while saying nothing to Jeff who has over the course of several years liabled me to no friggin' end.

Perhaps you could ban me as you did Clark. Think of the brownie points that would score for you!

ASS_CLOWN

Scott,
perhaps you meant libel, as liabled means

li·a·ble P Pronunciation Key (l-bl) adj. Legally obligated; responsible: liable for military service. See Synonyms at responsible. At risk of or subject to experiencing or suffering something unpleasant. Used with to: liable to criminal charges; liable to diabetes. Likely. Often used with reference to an unfavorable outcome: In a depression banks are liable to fail.



jeff

KMuleinAK--Interesting. In my rifle with the same load, 110 grains of RL-15 and the 570 grain blue X-Bullet, I get 2,465 fps. When are you going to blood your rifle?!

John, thanks. No, not the quarterback. So, I'll have to settle for elephant hunting. When I have more time, I will have to give your FN bullets a try in this rifle. Maybe next time.

N E 450 No2--My rifle weighs in at 11.4 lbs. empty and 12 lbs. fully loaded. With the removable muzzle brake installed, and a cheater pad between my shoulder and the rifle butt, I can shoot it off the bench as long as my money holds out! The iron sights are zeroed at 50 yards and will put the softs and the solids an inch apart.

ELKampMaster--Thanks. As for other hardware, I will have my AHR built .416 Rigby along for back up and plains game, if there's time.

Don--For myself and, I'm sure, every other poster on this site: Thank you very much.

mr

I sure have a lot of respect for anyone that can handle a 510 caliber rifle with 600 gr. bullets at 2300fps! I wouldn't be concerened about the Woodleighs as in my experience they have worked extremely well.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing of your hunt on your return!

465H&H

I hear 500 A-Square is a high pressure round.

How are pressures at those lower velocities?

not planning on getting one anything soon, just very curious...

With a hunt looming, I know it's too late to start working with other powders, but here is another reference load. 500 Jeffrey, 25" barrel, 100 gr Varget, 600 gr cast bullet, 2200 fps. Same gun, same powder, 535 gr bullet 2250 fps.

600 gr @ 2200 fps wasn't nearly as bad as I'd expected it to be, a 458 lott with full patch 500 gr loads is much ruder. I'm sure pushing 600's to 2400 fps will be a whole different ballgame

remeber that the 500 jeffe is about 20gr MORE capacity than either the wells or a2, therefore any load that matches the jeffe is higher pressure than the jeffe...

that being said, the 500 jeffe is the KING of low pressure rounds

jeffe

465H&H--It's no big deal. It just takes a well designed rifle and a fair amount of practice.

This is my thinking on the subject of big bore recoil. The fight is against the flinch, which destroys accuracy. I think that, with me anyway, flinching comes as much from the shock of the blast as it does from the buck of the stock against the shoulder. It doesn't hurt, but my entire body thinks it will because of the violence of the thing and it IS hard to control. So, I just have to keep on doing it until my mind conditions and controls my body to get used to it and control it.

Sometimes, I have a friend load the rifle (or not) and hand it to me on safe. It's an old trick, but it works. Not knowing whether the rifle is loaded, I line up the sights and press the trigger. The fear of screwing up in front of a witness will focus your mind and teach you to concentrate on the sight picture and the gentle press of the trigger and nothing else.

Stryker and jeffeosso--The 500 A2 is SAAMI rated at 63,860 psi. That's maximum average pressure, which is definitely achieved in maximum loads, which can exceed 2,500 fps with 600 grain bullets.

At 2,300 fps, with a slow burning powder like H4350, pressures are far less, probably right around or less than 42-43,000 psi (extrapolating from data published in Any Shot You Want), not high pressure by any measure.

(With 600 grain bullets, ASYW lists 113 grains of RL-12 as giving 2,323 fps at 42,900 psi, and 113 grains of RL-15 as giving 2,316 fps at 43,000 psi. N.B.--In my rifle, 110 grains of RL-15 give 2,425 fps, so if further evidence were needed that rifles vary, and that powder varies from lot to lot, and that it's best to back off when starting out, then this is it. I need to back all the way down to 105 grains of RL-15 to get down to 2,300 fps.)

PaulH--With both you and RIP suggesting Varget, I am definitely going to have to give it a try. But you're right in that it's too late to start messing around now. Besides, below is a target I shot yesterday (played a little hooky to get the 50 yard range all to myself)--loads noted above, two softs followed by two solids, shot with iron sights:



I am NOT going to do anymore experimenting. Just a lot more shooting . . .

Don't mess with success!

I've found that Varget is almost interchangable with RL 15. The only reason I tried it in my 500 Jeffrey is it is all I had on hand at the time.

One interesting thing I noted with my 350 Rigby is that my Varget load has much less recoil than H-4350, with same velocity loads. 66 gr of Varget pushes 250 gr to 2700 fps, 72 gr of 4350 also achieve 2700 fps. It isn't so much the reward force I notice but a sever slap to the cheak. I'd always thought a few extra grains of powder would make no difference, but it was quite apparent.

I also had a similar experience with the 458 Lott. 87 gr of RL 15 produced 2280 fps with 500 gr, ~91 gr of VV N 550 produced 2200 fps, and the N 550 loads had signifigantly more recoil.

Don't know if it's the duration of the pressure pulse, or the timing of it or what, buy the slower powders can produce notably more recoil.

Paul,

I have found the same thing, magnified in the Lott, BTW, probably because of its limited capacity and consequent sensitivity to powder charge increases.

I think it is a balance. Powder charge compression, and its advantages, versus the demon of increased recoil.