Hi Guys!

I'm new to varmint hunting and need some info on scopes. I'm looking at a Remington 700 SPS Varmint rifle and need to decide on a scope for it. I was originally thinking a 4.5x14 scope would be good, but a friend of mine who does long-range target shooting (not varmints) says not to bother with anything over 10 power. He says anything over that and you need a bench rest to steady the scope (I would be using a bipod).

Also, what type rings will I want to look for?

Any thoughts?

Invest in a quality scope..period. I'd buy a Leupold. They are here in the States, offer a lifetime warranty and their optics are excellent for the money. I use the same rifle and a vintage 4x12x40 scope but I'm about to move up to the 4.5x14x40 VX-III. True, you may never need over 10 power but if you really get into varmint hunting, there's always the option to power up. Leupold rings are fine, but do yourself a favor and don't buy a cheap scope. They are junk on bright days where reflection is a problem. I now use my rifle to hunt plains game in Africa.
LDK

Pizza, I think you need to define what you mean by "varmint" hunting before the opinions come in.

If you're talking coyotes/crows/etc. in the mid-west where shots are not long, I agree with your friend and would by a 3 x 9 or 2 x 7, or a fixed 4. yeah, I'd go with a fixed 4X.

If you're talking prairie dogs at long yards, he's on the crack pipe. You may not "need" anything over 10X but you'll use settings over 10x all the time. I use 5X to find the sod rat, then, if it's far away, crank up the power so I can steady the rifle on the sweet spot. I use a bi-pod, long version so I can sit up and shoot over the weeds/sage brush. I can also go prone but not as nice as with a prone-specific bi-pod. God didn't make the varmint fields flat, so going prone isn't an option much of the time.

Also, "steadying the scope" is the same thing as steadying the rifle for a very long, accurate shot.

I agree with Mr. Keith above: buy quality. However, if you're not rolling in money just get a scope and start shooting. I bought a 5 x 15 Bushnell el-cheapo for my AR varminter and I'm as happy as a clam. My other varminter had a 6 x 20 Weaver GS that is awesome.

Thanks for the replies. What I'm looking at right off the bat is probably jack rabbits. In the near future, my wife and I are looking to acquire some acreage in South Dakota so I suspect prairie dogs will be my primary varmint. I'm thinking probably around 300-500 yds.

As for scopes, I'm looking at either a Leupold or a Zeiss Conquest. My first inclination is the 4.5x14 Zeiss Conquest. Yeah, it's more expensive than the rifle, but I agree, quality optics are a must. Also, I will probably put an HS Precision stock on it when I get it.

I wouldn't put anything on a "varmint" rifle less than a variable that tops out at 20 power myself. Especially if you are shooting small targets out to 500 yds. I like the Burris FFII 6.5 X 20 X 50 Fine Plex for my varminters.

God Bless, Louis

I have and use both 6.5x20s and 4.5x14s. I wouldn't go any less than the 4.5x14. Whichever you choose, buy a quality scope, you won't regret it.

I've got three varmint rigs.

.223 with 6x24

.22-250 with 6x24

.243 with 4x14

If you're going to be shooting beyond 300 - 350 yards that extra magnification does come in handy. I shot a rock chuck this past weekend at 414 yards and had the power set a 22x. He still looked mighty small at that distance.

I have perfect vision and I honestly cannot shoot past 100 with 10x. Im a crack shot with my 204 as well, it has a cheap-o BSA 24x on it and I engage targets at 300 with it and its still a task to get the rifle steady and on the spot.

Buy what the funds allow you to buy, it you can afford the Leopold or Zeiss then go for it. I cannot afford those high-end scopes so I stick to Mueller on my varmint rigs with fine crosshairs or target dot reticles. On my hunting rifles they Get Nikon. on my Target 7mm mag it has a Konus 25x which is my most expensive optic.

The best buy in "varmint rifle" optics.......something usable for as far as is practical to shoot varmints......the Nikon Buckmaster 6-18 w/nikoplex reticle would be hard to beat! Side focus A/O, target turrets included as well as a sunshade and Midway has a special on them right now for $300.95. You're talking 300-500 yards shots and it is more than able to handle what you are looking for. GHD

quote:

The best buy in "varmint rifle" optics.......something usable for as far as is practical to shoot varmints......the Nikon Buckmaster 6-18 w/nikoplex reticle would be hard to beat! Side focus A/O, target turrets included as well as a sunshade and Midway has a special on them right now for $300.95. You're talking 300-500 yards shots and it is more than able to handle what you are looking for. GHD

Pizzaboy - sounds like you've done your homework and already have a solid plan in mind.

GHD nailed it - IMO these Nikon scopes are definately the best bang for the Buck currently available.

Don't want to argue the option or merit of the other scopes already mentioned, they are surely quality optics, too; simply VALUE and my $0.02 (you're getting your money's worth).

I'm not a complete scope snob; mine run the gamut from the most expensive, quality, high-priced brand names to some Cheap-O's as well; a BSA, Nikko Sterling and an RWS all in the 6-24X range - occaisionally you stumble across one that holds zero solid. They have their place in the Grand-Scheme-of-Things but on your primary platform a quality optic is a must IMO.

For the average P-Der in South Dakota early mornings and late afternoons afford full power viewing but mid-day mirage will almost certainly see a variable turned down to 10X-12X to reduce said influences at range.

My walking-up Jackrabbit days in AZ with a .243 Winchester were all done with a fixed 6X but benchshooting P-D's is another Kettle-of-Fish altogether; here a variable 12X-14X-16X or more will easily get the job done at distance and under various weather considerations.

Have fun with your decision, Good Luck & Good Hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by pizzaboy:
Hi Guys!

I'm new to varmint hunting and need some info on scopes. I'm looking at a Remington 700 SPS Varmint rifle and need to decide on a scope for it. I was originally thinking a 4.5x14 scope would be good, but a friend of mine who does long-range target shooting (not varmints) says not to bother with anything over 10 power. He says anything over that and you need a bench rest to steady the scope (I would be using a bipod).

Also, what type rings will I want to look for?

Any thoughts?

Couple of questions, what will you be hunting? And, what state are you from? I ask the second question because if you hunt during mid day in a locale with high temps, mirage will be an issue.
In the mid 1950's, I hunted ground hogs in Pensylvania using a Unertl 16x target scope. I was dead in the water trying to shoot during mid day; the mirage was too much for a 16x scope. Later, I bought a Redfield 6-18x, and by dialing the power down when the mirage was bad, I could shoot any time of the day.
The guy who suggested using a 10x scope knew what he wqas talking about. But, I did some testing with the Redfield, and found that any power of 14x or lower worked. I think that 10x would be even better than the 14x.

Don

IMO you don't need more than 10x on any hunting rifle and often low magnification is a must.Any Leupold or Zeiss is an excellent choice.For low cost/quality look at the new Redfields.Good luck!

No more than 10x eh? Since the thread title is a 'new varminter', and the OP wants to shoot 300-500 yards, why on earth would less power be helpful? Even seeing a PD well enough to shoot it at 500 yards with a 10x scope can be tough.

Comments like 'with more power you need a benchrest to steady the scope' are pretty silly. As stated above, the rifle moves the same amount regardless of scope power. Plenty of us have taken varmints at 500 yards without a benchrest. Target shooters, gotta love 'em.

It's fun reading the posts by the armchair amateurs commenting without experience. Those who actually practice long range varmint shooting know better. A high power variable is perhaps the best choice. I often use a 6-18x scope on my 6mm Remington or .22-250, and an 8-24x on a .260 for shooting beyond 300 yards. A variable is helpful on days when the mirage is bad - dialing up the power helps to dope the mirage, and dialing it down a bit helps sighting.


.

Chances are once your get the bug you'll buy more rifles and more scopes.

I say don't scrimp on glass. You'll probably won't need the light gathering characteristics to shoot varmints during the day that you would deer or hogs just before dead dark, but crisp images are their own reward. The varmints I shoot are 200 yds or under and most are 30 to 50 yds, called in . I have more 2.5 x 8's or 3 x 9's on my varmint rifles (a dozen or so) than any other. I personally do not like large objective and high and super high rings. A good quality 4.5 x 14 x 44 should do all you need. A Nikon Monarch, Sightron SII, Weaver Grand Slam, Leupold vx III (or vari x III), or Zeiss Conquest should do fine. Buy them used at a reasonable price and then keep them for a back-up or sell them when you decide to upgrade, as you surely will if you are a true rifle looney and varminter.
Best
GWB

Geedubya touched on some valid points and recomendations............however you don't need to go all the way up to the Monarchs in the Nikon line to get CLARITY, DEFINITION and REPEATABILITY........the Buckmasters in 4.5-14 and 6-18 are quality optics at affordable prices. And for the folks who think 10X is enough.......I'm glad I had 18x yesterday for the 801 yard groundhog shot at a head and neck sticking out of the den!!.......not sure if I'd have been able to discern if it was a groundhog at 10X, didn't try that! I picked him out with a pair of STEINER Pergrine XP's in 10X and am pretty darn sure my Pentax 12x's wouldn't have let me discern the difference in a groundhog and his surroundings. But if one had popped up at 100 yards, there is a little dial located on the backend of the scope that I could have turned the power down to 6x if I wanted to............but with the Side Focus and Fast Focus eye adjustment, I could probably have made him clear at 100 yards on 18X!! Best buys in optics today.......NIKON BUCKMASTERS be they 3-9, 4.5-14, 6-18!! and I own Leupolds, Burris, Pentax, Weaver, Zeiss Diavari's!! GHD

GHD,
won't argue with anything you said. Maybe I should elaborate a little. Take a Harley, a Honda, a Suzuki and a Yamaha motorcycle. Buy them used a couple of years old. Keep them for 10 years and trade them in. I'll bet you get a higher percentage of the purchase price on the Harley than on the other brands. From my experience, I can buy a used Leupold or Ziess 2.5 x 8 or 3 x 9 today for $250 to $300. In five years from now I can probably sell it here or on GunBroker for what I paid for it. Not knocking the other brands. I just like having an exit strategy before I enter in.
Best
GWB

Geedubya, I run JOHN DEERE!! For the strategy that you mention. If I had to farm with Massey-FU........I wouldn't farm! And that's the most used name worldwide in farming today....Massey Ferguson.........not for me!! I understand the coming out on the back-end with the investment. It's just that coming up with the front-end part sometimes is tough!!(I realize I could use Trashco's or BSA's but we're not going to sink to that level!!) 6.5-20 VX III vs 6-18 Buckmaster..........$300.00 up front difference and the performance in the field may FAVOR the cheap one!! BTDT!! And that's the Buckmasters!! Get into the Monarchs and that's a different beast. Price close to the same and performance about the same and guess what?.........the Buckmasters perform!! Best buy in optics out there period!! Is your butthole still intact? Mine is for now and that just means we have an opinion, kinda like buttholes. We've all got one (except for a few folks who have had medical problems and thier's doesn't work anymore and I have friends in that shape so don't jump in my doo-doo over that statement!) Charlie (GHD)

quote:

Originally posted by pizzaboy:
...but a friend of mine who does long-range target shooting (not varmints) says not to bother with anything over 10 power...

Hi Pizzaboy. That's a good question you're asking and a very important one. I hate to say it, but I'm sorry to say that the advice you got from your target shooting friend is hot garbage.

Yes, mirage can be a real problem on a hot day at long range with a high powered scope. But guess what, it's only because the mirage is MAGNIFIED with the high powered scope. It doesn't simply disappear because your friend is merely looking through his magical mirage-proof 9X power scope; he just doesn't notice it magnified as much. It's still there. I have a modern solution to an age-old problem: Dial your scope down if it's problem. They call them "variables" for a reason.

Even with a 20X scope from Leupold or Zeiss, the bottom magnification end is 6.5X. If you want to drop some more coin, the newer Swarovski Z5 scopes have even a broader zoom range than that (3.5-18X44mm and 5-25X52mm).

My suggestion is to get behind two pieces of glass... one of great quality (Zeiss, Leupold, Swarovski) and one of shitty quality (Tasco, BSA, etc.) and make the decision for yourself. Believe me, it won't be hard. The worse the lighting, the easier the decision.

The 4.5-14X scopes are great, but I consider that to be on the bottom range of magnification for true long-range varmint rigs.

Lastly, I recommend side-focusing parallax if possible. It is nice feature when you're on your belly poppin' vermin.

Best of luck!

(P.S. I personally think your Zeiss Conquest choice is the best combination of $ & value. Especially with a RZ Varmint reticle (here). A Leupold VX-3 Long Range with a Varmint Hunter's reticle would be my next choice; both with side focus.)

My advice is to buy a better quality scope. I learned my lesson when I put a cheap Tasco World Class 6-24X40 on my rifle. I had to use the higher power settings to even equal what my friends Leupold. When I could afford to put a better scope on it I did. I went with a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20X40. The difference between the optics is night and day. Even on the lower power settings the Leupold is crisper and clearer than the Tasco. The heat mirages would effect the Tasco far more than the Leupold and I have found that I can use much higher magnification before heat mirages effect the scope. I have also put a Swarovski on my .204 Ruger and have to say that is even better than the Leupold. I also have Burris Full field II scopes and find that they are very good value for their money. I have looked through their higher end scopes and find them to be very well made and their glass is very clear. They also have a lifetime warranty. That says a lot as some companies out there do not.

Guys,

Sorry I haven't been on the site lately to respond. Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty much decided on the Zeiss 4.5x14x50 Conquest scope. The Rapid-Z Varmint reticle looks pretty good.

Palladin8, do you shoot out at Desert Sportsman? I'm a member out there.

quote:

Originally posted by pizzaboy:
I'm pretty much decided on the Zeiss 4.5x14x50 Conquest scope. The Rapid-Z Varmint reticle looks pretty good.

Exxxxxxxcellent choice!

pizzaboy what cal do you plan on getting?A couple are suited for use on big game.That possibility needs to be considered as well.Others are much better in high winds to.

Jack rabbits and prarrie dogs are two different games. For Jacks I like a wide field of view, for Pdogs I like magnification. On those hot summer SD days, over about 20x the mirage can play heck with you, so I probably would go over a 6.5x20. Leipold Zeiss, you will be happy with either one.

pizzaboy....good choice with the Zeiss. I have a Conquest in 6.5-20 w/their Varmint reticle. With the ballistic program they have on their web site it is easy to get your scope and cartridge drop table in harmony.

Accoeding to their site the 4.5-14 does not come in the Varmint reticle. You will need to go up to the 6.5-20 in order to get it.

Good luck.

I have two 6.5-20x leupolds on my primary varmint rifles. I just mail ordered a 6-18x Simmons for a .22 Hornet. WOW WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP. Can't for sure tell you what to buy, but don't waste $140.00 on a Simmons like I did.

I would personally want more than 14x for prairie dogs at 500 yards. They're gonna look pretty small.

Done quite a bit of varmint shooting for PDs and Ground Squirrels.

You need about 2x for every 100 yards. But resolution is often more important than magnification.

700 yards is a practical limit for most center fire calibers, so 14x is a good practical top limit. Some detail on the reticle is not a bad idea as long as it is not ballistics information. My .260 shown below lands at a very steep angle at 700 with very little terminal energy. It does remarkably well to 600 though.

I specifically do not recommend mil-dot as it is too course for varmint shooting. Mil scale or MOA scale is what I choose with same units as knobs so you can measure miss with scale do to wind or other and dial it in with little effort and no calculation.

Scale has .1 moa or .2 Mil scale increments. I have 95 click knobs which get me to 800 meters in 1 turn. 30mm or larger tube also gives more erector travel, which is useful. Accurate parrallax is vitally important in my view.

While not as critical for big game hunting, for varmint hunting, I generally spend as much for the scope as I do the rifle.

I put a 6.5 x 20 x 40mm Leupold on my XR100 .223. I bought it on a 700 Remington.223 just to get the scope sold the rifle after it wouldn’t perform to my expectations and came out ahead on the price of the used scope (It was like new).

I have tried the Tasco, Simons, and other brand scopes for varmints. The Tasco I was using the cross hairs came loose so it went into the trash can. I had a Bushnell 4200 in 8 x 32 x 40 I didn’t care for the cross hairs they seemed to be too thick. I sold it and bought a 4.5 x 16 x 40mm and put it on my 300 Win Mag deer rifle.

I also like a minimum of 4 x 12 x 40mm so I can see the holes at 100yrds without using a spotting scope.
It makes it a lot easier to dial in the scope.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I've got 2 Burris Signatures that I couldn't get rid of with the simple duplex, target knobs, 8-32 power. One actually returns to -0- after you dial up and down!

I put them on my p-dog rifles; a 22-250 and a .223.

I'm a fan of high magnification!

For a long range varmint rifle or any rifle to be used at long range, you need magnification to be precise.

Definately buy the best you can afford. Clarity of glass on varminters is everything. The other issue, especially with cheaper variables is point of impact shift whilst changing power. This can play merry hell with hitting small critters at distance. 1MOA POI change means missing by 3 inches at 300 yards.

I can recommend unreservedly the VX3 Leopold's and the Nighforce scopes. You certainly want at least a 4x12, 4.5x14 or 3.5x15NXS. I use all 3 as well as a 6.5x20 Leopold and cannot fault any.

In the field mirage will be an issue over 10x, but when the conditions are right you can really crank up and enjoy, hence the need for repeatable POI with changing of power.

You'd be amazed how poorly cheap scopes fair in this area. If you must use one check the variability and decide what you can and can't use.

Just my 2c, hope it helps

I have a 4-14 Zeiss Conquest on my Cooper .270. It worked great on four whistle pigs from 600 to 650 yards last weekend. I shoot with a bipod and my fist under the rifle butt. I shoot this way with a 22-250 as well, using a 6-24 scope. No problem.

I'm partial to 4.5 to 14 or 4 x 16 and 6.5 to 20 or 6 x 24 power scopes...

the brands I would like, and the brands my budget allows... well unfortunately they don't correspond..

I would definitely get the side focus, a varmint hunting reticule and a power of at least 18x on the high side. I have two Leupold 6 1/2x -20x side focus with varmint hunters reticule. One is on a .204 and the other on a .223AI. I wouldn't go any smaller if at all possible and the side focus and varmint hunters reticule are the greatest thing since peanut butter.

What swampshooter said.

shooting today with a 3-9 monarch, 4-12 leo vxII, and 3-9 zeiss conquest. It was obvious the glass guality was in that order. A higher grade Leo may compete better with the zeiss,

but shooting all 3 at the same caldwell orange peel 3" shoot and see target, It was easier to see the bullet holes and target quardrants with the zeiss than the other two.

You won't be dissappointed with the zeiss quality, weither the power range is suitable for your purposes I would really on the experience already presented to you.

I was out shooting 'hogs yesterday trying to break the 700 yard mark. Resolution and clarity through my Zeiss Conquest was sufficient to allow a kill on a young hog perched in the shade under a small overhang at 730 yards. The next one was on a rock out in brilliant, bright sunlight and again, great detail and another kill at 749 yards. At the ranges I use this scope the turrets are twisted many times in a day, and it consistently returns to zero. Windage adjustments have proved to be just as accurate and repeatable.

There is no such thing as "too much scope", IMHO.
People have disagreed, saying, on a hot mirage-plagued day you can't see.
Turning the scope down does not make it go away, you just can't see it.
I have a Bushnell8-32X with good glass and it is very handy to have on long shots. Guys here are talking well past 500 yds. That is doable with enough glass.

Rich

Good glass is a given. I once had a 24X Unertle on a SAvage 220 Swift and Rem 223 HB. Too much "info" in the sight picture under field conditions. Swift now has a fixed 10X w. fine cross hair. 223 has a old 6X Weaver fixed with a 1/8th MOA Dot (custom reticle by a famous man in Birmingham,AL-sorry can't call his name-check Google). Best scope I ever had on that rifle, all you see is the dot and out to 350 yds if the dot is on, the shot is on! Did Google search 4 u- TK Lee Dot Scope, B'Ham Al

bubbi, Out to 350 yards, even a Trashco can handle it!! It's when the vermin are 6,7,800 yards or more and then the 'dialing and dusting' comes into play that the difference in glass really plays out! With the big 17's(Fireball, Mach 4, 17 Rem) and the 20's(VarTarg, 204 Ruger,20 Practical or Tactical) or even the TRIED AND TRUE .224's...........222,223,222Mag,225Win, 22-250 or the Swift................350yards .........if you miss it's YOUR FAULT!! And I do occasionaly miss!! MY FAULT!! Most of the misses can be attributed to "overthinking the situation"........"he's 290 yards.........I need to dial down!" ........If he's 350 yards with most any of the flat shooting varminters, hold on him and squeeze!! I have a tendency to sight in the "little guys"(17's and 20's) a bit high at 100 and then they fall on "zero" somewhere in the 230-300 yard range and out to 350 they are still pretty darn close. But I really like watching the effect of the bullet going home through the GOOD GLASS of an 18-20 power scope and the NIKONS, LEUPOLDS, ZEISS, and just recently, the VORTEX 6.5-20 on a 6mmRemington all suffice. But I can still see them more clearly than if using a Trashco or BSA or any of the myriad of brands listed in Sportsmans Guide or Ebay. A GREAT rifle wearing a sorry scope has just been relegated to a SORRY rifle!! GHD

Bubbinator,

TK Lee.

Wait 'til you guys see the old B&L Balvar 6-24X I just picked up for $500 in Boise.

Rich