I was just reading my new Varmint Hunter Magazine. On the very last printed page of the January 2003 issue is a small article on the longest shot of the year for 2002. The Prairie Dog killing shot was an incredible 2,784 yards! The VHA member was shooting a Remington 700 in caliber 308 Winchester with a Leupold 8.5X25 scope. I will say it again and I am trying to be positive - I am incredulous over this incredible shot! I once fired 20 rounds at a 12 pound Rock Chuck at 520 yards before I killed it! Stupid Chuck was just not familiar with humans and kept running back and forth from one end of his rock to the other!
Back to the years long shot - at that rate it would take me about 140 rounds to hit a Prairie Dog at 2,784! I think I would rather smoke up a bunch of Prairie Dogs with my 140 rounds at 200 to 400 yrds than get one out of 140 shots at the extreme distance.
I want to send my congratulations to the fellow that did this incredible feat Kenneth Heupel of Minnesota. Good shot! That is 1.582 miles! Yikes.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

How many shot's did he have to shoot??????????

Varmintguy:

I'd probably be in the same boat, but if it took you 20 rounds on that rockchuck at 500 plus yards, he would likely die of old age before we got him at 2700.....

.... am incredulous over this incredible shot! I once fired 20 rounds at a 12 pound Rock Chuck at 520 yards before I killed it! Stupid Chuck was just not familiar with humans and kept running back and forth from one end of his rock to the other!
......

so maybe u better try your training on the range.

For my point of view i find it unbelievable that some of you use "living game" as target .
One shot - kill,...that�s what hunting should be. Not plinking arround on living animals.

realy confused german hunter
konst#1

Konst#1 Are you with PETA? Prarrie dog hunting is not uncommon.

Tnbrian - Europeans are not wild on the idea of sniping at live game. It has nothing to do with PETA and everything to do with their hunting ethics and respect.

That being said, my longest confirmed prairie rat kill was 742 yards with a .338 Lapua. It took 5 windage shots before pay dirt. I regularly shoot 600 yard and 1,000 yard target under ideal conditions. However, every time I am in South Dakota, the wind gods decide to turn the fan on high.

I have watched several people make it into the 1,000 yard club. Most shoot 10 to 20 rounds before a hit. I have seen others shoot a days worth of cases (100+) and not come close just for the bragging rights. One gentlemen in particular has never hit a prairie rat beyond 150 yards yet blazes away day after day attempting to make a 1,000 yard hit. I guess the law of averages will some day connect and he too will make it into the club.

I can understand why situations like this cause a great deal of concern with many shooters.

Bullet probably hit the dog on the second bounce.

[ 01-30-2003, 00:44: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

hey tnbrian...
zerodrift pointed everything out .
I�m not that kind of guy how says i only shot up to 100m....my farest shot was 270m on a roe calf. Maybe for u that peanuts,...but overhere in germany it aa long distance shot And i hit the roe excaxtly where i wanted to, behind the shoulder.
If i shoot on game (and it�s not of interest how far it is) i only fire if i could be sure that i hit the game on the right place.
Not that i never have missed something,...that will appear -question of time- when hunting.
But i�m not the type who tries out if it�s possible, when i�m sure i�ll miss.
For my point of view it has to do something with the respect that you show to the game you hunt on.

all the best to the varmint snipers

P.s. are you afraid of getting nearer , because the prarrie dog will throw with stones when u get to near.

Konstantin

[ 01-30-2003, 02:45: Message edited by: konst#1 ]

Its hard to get a very long shot around here.The longest shot I have made is 450 yards on a groundhog.We are planning on going back to South Dakota this year for some prarrie dog hunting but my partner is wanting to go for 2 weeks.Im afraid thats going to be a little much for me.

Varmint Guy, 2784 yds. is OUT there, no doubt about it, but several years back i had a series of articles in the Precision Shooting publications on two guys out here in CO that were attempting shots at these ranges also. Kreg Slack of Pueblo, CO has the worlds record for the longest witnessed shot on a pr. dog at 3125 yds. or 1.78 miles. If you contact Precision Shooting Publications @ 860-645-8776 you can purchase the soft cover book, "Precision Shooting @ 1000 Yards" for all the details, as Chapter 5, "Ultra Long-Range Shooting in CO (Parts 1-2-3) is a compilation of the 1st 2 articles, and 1 additional. The last article was published in, "The Accurate Rifle" (2/02), entitled, "Quest for the 2 Mile Pr. Dog". By the Way, when Kreg hit that dog at 3125 yds. it took him 4 shots-- I think (at least that particular day).

Sscoyote: I do not doubt that it was accomplished I am just incredulous that IT CAN BE DONE! Maybe you can help me figure out for the sake of "figuring things out" what is that Rifle then capable of in M.O.A. to be able to hit a 5" wide (or 5" tall if it is laying prone) Prairie Dog at 2,784 yards! Lets round it off to 2,800 yards and the PD is 5 inches wide.... duh help me here sscoyote I am coming up with uhhh... 5" divided by 28 or .1785 M.O.A. - please correct me if I am wrong there - I know M.O.A. is not exactly one inch at 100 yrds I am just trying to get a close idea of how well that 308 has gotta shoot to hit that size target. The enormity of it all overwhelms me.
I have 3 of the wonderful Leupold 8.5X25X40mm scopes on Varmint Rifles and the standard duplex crosshairs I have in all three of them is gonna cover up a lot of Prairie Dog out there. Maybe he had the crosshairs changed. Anyway I am not doubting that it happened or that it can be done it is still in my mind an incredible feat. And I have already congratulated him on the shot in a previous posting.
I am not even gonna mention what I have seen the wind do to a bullet out where Prairie Dogs live!
Thanks for shedding more light on these incredible long shots!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

He must have some serious elevation built into his rings. Any ideas as to the drop and drift effects at that distance?

I don't recall anywhere near exactly, but the mid range trajectory was on the order of 320 to 365 feet, depending on the caliber.

They build special bases for their rifles that tilt the scope down towards the front quite a bit(so at to elevate the barrel). The bases are quite expensive.

The articles mentioned above on the 3125 yard shot go into considerable detail. If you are interested you should get the book.

These rifles are shooting much, much, less than MOA, on the order of .1 to.2 MOA.

Still, the prarie dogs, chucks at those type distances are having an unlucky day.

Shots like that just prove what my local gunsmith always says "damned bullet had to land someplace".

RF

R Flowers:

On the contrary, these guys spend considerable money setting up their rifles and loads and lots and LOTS of time learning how to shoot at those ranges. They regularly practice at gongs in excess of 3000 yards. It ain't all luck, be assured. And, while with wind and mirage, there would be no guarantees, I sure as hell would NEVER want to stand there and let them shoot at me at the close range of 1 mile.

I have never shoot at 3000 yards but make trials at 2000 m
1) problem is your scope elevation clics value 1/4 moa make 10 inch at 1000 yards at 20 inch at 2000 yards and that a lot so you need to have micrometric base able to give you 1/8 of moa or better if you want to hit a small atrget or stay in X center but for group ( accuarcy test ) a 1/4 moa can dot the job
2) you need to find a reticule wich is able to not hide the target and a small target at 3000 yards ???I use dot by premier on my Leupold and even a 1/8 dot can hide the target ?
3) problem is the windage that a nightmare to readhe wind at very long range and your time of fly can let the wind change between your muzzle and your target .
4) problem is that accuracy in not directly proportional to the range ex a very good rifle can do easy group in the 0.2 inch/moa at 100 yards or even 0.2 inch 100 meters but that not true to say that the same rifle can do 0.2 moa at 1000 yards and even at 2000 yards
5) problem is your impact velocity if you run a good bc software you can check that your velocity at 2000 yards is slow (generally subsonic inmost caliber ) I dont know what velocity you can get at 3000 yards with a 308 WIN

I shoot 6.5 cal and 30 cal as 50 cal and that not so easy but really interesting
and I wish to get my CocaCola can at 1 miles CocaCola cans are more easy to find than PD in Europe

good shooting

DAN TEC

make a mistake in elevation
1/4 clics ( 1/4 of inch = 0.25 inch at 100 ) at 100 yards make 2.5 inch at 1000 yards and 5 inch at 2000 yards so to be able to reach at 10 inch target at 3000 yards you need something more smaller in clic value.

good shooting

DANTEC

Dan Tec: You are so right about the wind often times being a "nightmare"! I had a super secret Prairie Dog Town that I shot on for many years. I never saw signs of another Hunter having been there! I found it while Hunting Mule Deer about 25 years ago. I would set up for Prairie Dogs with the morning sun to my back on the last foothill adjacent to the 800 yard wide Dog Town. I laid prone on the crest and often would shoot from there for 4 hours at a time - retreating to the VarmintMobile only to retrieve fresh Varmint Rifles. During these morning shoots the wind would prevail from sometimes 3 different directions! Often when I would see Prairie Dogs kicking up dust fighting or mound building the wind at 150 yards out was blowing south to north but the wind at 700 yards would be blowing north to south. Yes figuring the wind at 3,000 yard is going to take more than practice! It is going to take practice, a lot of spotter shots and a lot of luck! Thanks for the figures on the click values. Hope things are well over in France!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I am a little bit shocked by some of this discussion regarding pot shooting PDs.

I usually shoot PDs up to a maximum range of 700 yards with a .260 Remington with a 100 grain Sierra Varmint bullet. The scope is calibrated for this bullet using a Leica LRF. In this case the scope is a USO 6-30x58 with a 35mm tube(180 MOA)with a flat base.

What you do is range the PD with the laser, dial in the scope and kill the dog. Generally, if I do my part, it results in 1 shot, 1 kill. Ok, sometimes it takes 2, but 20? I don't think so.



[ 02-01-2003, 23:49: Message edited by: DMCI* ]

DMCI

I checked out your home page.....very cool!! Is that Wyo, Montana, other in your pic??

Montana

I try to avoid knocking shooting at long range because it's a relative thing. I shoot at running game at close range and it comes down to the same thing that either there is a fair chance of a hit or not. If not get closer or let it go.

Shooting at even a pest over a thousand yards is not sporting. That's what getting closer or paper targets is for.

[ 03-09-2003, 21:32: Message edited by: bowhuntrrl ]

VarmintGuy, It also states in that article that the shot was witnessed by the holder of the 2001 longest shot of the year...3142yards!!!! Yea, right! I don't think there's any need for me to try something like that or a desire too!! GHD

your not going to wound a PD or a GH for that matter.if you hit it it dies or if you miss it it dont.whats unethical about missing something.
where on a PD can you hit it and not kill it?

DMCI*: I did not notice your post and address until just now. I was born and raised in Renton Washington and Hunted a lot in eastern Washington for Chucks. I was Hunting on the Colvile Indian Reservation when I went through that ordeal with the big Chuck and the box of shells. The Rifle was a new then Remington 700 BDL in 25/06 caliber and it had a 3X9 Redfield on it. That should give you some hints as to how long ago that was! The Indians quit allowing Chuck Hunters in 1970 or so!
I will say this with no offense intended. I have shot a lot of Prairie Dogs with a lot of Hunters (including bench rest types, an Olympic Marksman and many other self proclaimed "Expert shooters") and none of them could manage what you claim to be able to do at 700 yards! Hitting 100% on the Prairie Dogs at that range is just not in my experience doable! I don't even believe 50% can be accomplished at that range for a days shooting! The wind in Prairie Dog country is just not conducive to allowing those percentages of success's! Without several attempts per target at that range I just cannot envision that percentage happening.! At least I have never seen anyone do it in person and I started Hunting the PD's in the 60's!
My equipment of course has evolved also and I know there are many people much more adept at shooting long distance than I am! But my Leica rangefinder and my wind gauge and my ability to spot my own hits or interpret my spotters directions simply won't allow success rates at 700 yards of 100% or 50% even! One thing I notice on these extra long shot attempts is that about 10% of the time the target moves from the time the trigger is squeezed until the bullet arrives. Prairie Dogs in a town that is being fired into are skitterish and prone to move about often. I am all for folks firing away at the Varmints at whatever distance suits their fancy but like I said in my original posting I am incredulous at the ability of someone to see, pick out and aim at a particular Prairie Dog at 2,784 yards and hit it. Again congratulations for the long shot of the year to that Rifleman but I would bet my best Rifle it took him more than a couple of shots in reality to make that connection at that distance!
Keep after em!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

mr big, Have you ever shot groundhogs? Evidently if you have, you must be the world champion Groundhog shooter if you have never wounded and not killed one! I would rather miss completely than hurt a groundhog with a poorly placed shot! GHD

Oh yeah. We find gimped up PD's with blown off ears and limbs all the time. Bullets creases and sometimes in the remote towns we find them all healed up packing 30 & 338 caliber target bullets stuck in their hams and guts all the time. The ones with the reverse Mohawk are kind of cool looking; like little injuns. We hunt them by stalking them in gillie suits and snipe them with pellets pistols at extreme close range. You know your good when you can close to within a foot and look them in the eye before you dot it with a pellet.

I hope you didn't buy that as it was all a lie, but that's what I think of when I hear about being unethical pertaining to sniping small vermin at long-range. I don't know anyone that enjoys them suffering a prolonged death. Really, a hit almost anywhere will kill them pretty quick unless you shoot a bb gun. If you hunt goose refuges you know what I mean when you pull the hide back on a goose and find 10 different sizes of shot under it�s skin. I recently watched my dad and several close friends and relatives die of old age. (cancer , heart, diabetes) The old age things involved a 3 to 10 day sleepless intense pain filled ordeal. Thank God for death. Being shot in your prime without having to suffer old age and illness sounds not to bad.

I think this extreme long range sniping acceptable as the improved technology from pushing the limits benefits us all. I once hit a digger squirrel with a .50 cal muzzleloader at about 60 yards. It was a smoothbore so I thought that was pretty good. You know, he went about 3 feet despite a center of mass hit that was still smoking when he expired. That was as satisfying as flipping them sky-high with my 25-06 Improved at 600 yards. In the days of the 50 cal smoothbore that 600 yard attempt was crazy. Now it�s somewhat routine thanks to you all. Plus this adds some variety. Sometimes we go out after squirrels with iron sight revolvers only. That�s fun too. For me it�s all about the camaraderie and sharing time with your friends.

Be glad you can still shoot PD's cause when the state decides to do something about the pests, the fun will be over. Do your part by humanly shooting them to keep them in check or the state will do it for you, permanently. When they break out the poison spray like they did to our digger squirrels here on the coast they will be nearly extinct. Out here for the last 10 years it has been digger squirrel �hunting� as opposed to actually �shooting�.

Shawn in Oregon
Involved and not going down without a fight.
NRA Life Member
NAHC & VHA
Ducks Unlimited

*

[ 03-10-2003, 02:14: Message edited by: DMCI* ]

*

I agree with Konst.

You know when i wrote those articles on these guys out here attempting the "impossible" i knew there was going to be some bad feedback, but i thought why hold back info. from the general public because of fear of criticism? There are some out there that want to know what these guys are attempting, and more importantly their methodologies. I mean i know some got freaked out when they found out the world was round, but should experimentation be stopped because of the opinion of naysayers. Has anyone looked at the photo of those guys and their equipment in the last article (The Accurate Rifle, 2/02)? That scope mounting system that Elmer Laitala designed is ingenious. Who would have ever thought of an innovation like this had Bruce Artus not looked way out there on the prairie one day and wondered what if, and then thought to himself, "I better not, somebody might not think it's right"?? Sounds funny, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. Before criticizing, you better know what you're talking about. You know these guys got support from some pretty big names in the business. Unless you think Leupold, Boots Obermeyer, and Premier Reticles are all wrong, maybe some out there should just sit back and watch things happen, instead of criticizing from the sidelines.

If it smells like BS, and tastes like BS, it's probably BS....this story is too friggin unbelievable. The trajectory on a .308 makes this whole story laughable. Now, if the shot was taken with a .408 Chey-Tac or a .50BMG, maybe, just MAYBE, I could believe it. But honestly, this is a wacked story. See the article below and it puts into perspective....

A world-record killing shot by a Canadian sniper detachment in Afghanistan could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued when they left Edmonton last winter, the triggerman said in a recent interview.
The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres.

But the U.S. rounds, they discovered, "fly farther, faster," said Cpl. "Bill", a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld.

The two-man Canadian team, coupled with American Sgt. Zevon Durham of Greenville, S.C., made the kill from 2,430 metres, or nearly 2 1/2 kilometres, on the second shot.

This feat is the equivalent of standing at the foot of Yonge St. and hitting a target in the intersection of Yonge and Wellesley Sts., just north of College St.

The first shot blew a bag from the hand of their target, an Al Qaeda fighter walking on a road.

"He didn't even flinch," said Bill, who spoke on condition that his real name not be used.

"We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right."

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

[ 03-11-2003, 07:17: Message edited by: CampX ]

Hey Fellas;
I got it all knowd up. He was a military shooter, missed with his first shot, lit the target up with his lazer rangefinder and called in an air strike.
Jim
That's the only way I could/would do it.

Once again a fellow comes in with a extreme story and when everybody doesn't lap it all up and swear its the greatest thing since bottled beer, he gets in a snit. Claims since they have all sorts of EQUIPMENT its ethical. But really, it ain't.

laughably friggin unbelievable?, maybe but i guess what it all comes down to is that Bruce Artus, and Kreg Slack still have the record, PERIOD; and since i've seen them shoot i know they're not out to impress sideliners, and the truth is they don't even care. i guess you can laugh all you want but instead of laughing and criticising why not put your money down. Bruce Artus invites anyone to come out and shoot with him, but please when you do let me know. i definitely need to be there for this one.