driver, After reading this whole thread the one thing that stands out the most is that you are a paper punching, article reading and beleiving what is written without trying it, "mechanics" is everything in shooting, brainwashed .223 fanatic who has probably never fired the first round at a live varmint!! If you did fire a round it took you 5 minutes to get the set-up right!! And yes, I've shot at Williamsport, PA!!! 1000 yard matches! Did I win?? Hell no!! But I sure as hell turned some heads by shooting FACTORY rifles that I know what they do in certain conditions!!
Go back into your den and read the latest issue of "Precision Shooting"!! You may learn something!! My subscription ran out years ago and I didn't renew it because those folks are too damn technical and not enough into "let's have fun and do the deal"!! And as far as shooting in varying conditions to 600 yards.......bring your 223 on and we'll shoot together!! My 204 Savage VLP against your 223!!! Where did you come from?????????? GHD

driver: Its 7:09 PM here in the high mountain west! I just returned from an extended day long Ground Squirrel/Badger/Coyote/Jack Rabbit/Porcupine/Fox Varmint Hunting Safari!
In your honor I took along not ONE but TWO of my centerfire Varmint Rifles in 204 Ruger caliber.
Two reasons I did this today - #1 I wanted to AGAIN prove many of your hair brained contentions WRONG! And #2 was a more self serving reason - I am switching these two 204's from Hornady brass to Winchester and Remington brass and I had some ammo to use up for each of them.
I want to have three brands of brass in use now - one brand for each of my 204's. I had about 30 rounds for one 204 and 50 for the other!
I shot them all up on Varmints today - and AGAIN, as I suspected would be the case, I experienced wonderful results with the 204's AND my "high power" scopes that they have been fitted with!
I also had along my nifty little Ruger 10/22 in 22 L.R. as well as my Ruger 77/17 V/T in 17 HMR.
Lots of Varmints fell to our projectiles from all of our Varmint Rifles and many to our pistols!
Also along on this "disprove drivers insane contentions" Varmint Hunt, were other Rifles and pistols in 243 Win., 223 Remington, 22 Magnum, 22 L.R., 45 ACP, 40 S.W. and 38 S.W.!
The 204 Ruger Rifles needless to say proved to be the "superior dog" in this fight!
It was warmish here today and thankfully there was a wind burping along to add credence to my days experiences and the upcoming public trouncing of driver and his spurious (false - fraudulent) contention!
Once our positions became suitable in the midst of just a HOARDE of Ground Squirrels in a cultivated field - I immediately went to work with my 204's! I first, in honor of Mr. Incredible (driver) I made usre my variable scopes on the 204's were turned up to full power!
According to my Leica Laser Rangefinder I killed Ground Squirrels out to 260 yards today (narrow field)!
Normally I do not use my centerfires to often on Ground Squirrels as there are just so many of them I would use up a barrel in just a few years by doing so.
The 204 Ruger just "MISTIFIES" Ground Squirrels (as observed through my high power scopes!)!
I did so very much enjoy the ability of the 204 Ruger Rifles to hold sight picture as the Varmints either exploded, were ripped in half or (on rare occassions) I missed - and the point of impact was clearly seen on all occassions anyway!
Now remember that "oh driver of all things witty"! I had my scopes turned up to full power for this fun fest! One 204 has a 24 power top end scope and the other has a 25 power top limit!
I had no problems what so ever achieving this feat, that herr driver says is not possible!
Lets watch him squirm on that pettard for a while!
He-he!
I even made a concerted effort to NOT just shoot the Varmints straight upwind or downwind with my 204's! I used my 204's to make several distant shots on Ground Squirrels that were in a direction that made the wind perpindicular to the flight of my 204's projectiles!
Whop, whop, whop was the usual result!
He-he!
Yeah I missed a few with the 204's projectiles but at least "I" was absolutely certain those bullets were going to fragment when they did strike terra firma and not ricochet along like good old boy "drivers" unsafe projectiles will do! My few misses can be attributed to both the darting nature of these slender Varmints along with a few to "pilot error"
Nope no 20' high berms behind our intended targets anywhere we went today - so we all used Varmint Hunting friendly and safe bullets - thats what real men and sportsmen do!
It was indeed quite fun and rewarding using the centerfire 204's on the ever present Ground Squirrels!
Soon though my vendetta of disputation of the ludicrous contentions of Mr. driver was over - as I ran out of ammo!
I simply carried on with my various rimfires.
We shot all morning and then went to one of my friends homes for a barbecue and salad luncheon!
WOW on that feast!
For the after lunch portion of our Hunt we chose less cultivated and more remote Varminting areas in hopes of finding more variety of Varmints - one of our crew of three had not as yet taken a Badger.
I added to my days bag several Jack Rabbits and also some flying nest raiding type Varmints!
My friend Ron had the hots for either a Coyote or a Fox but our calling was futile - I think these predators are intent on denning and mating now a days and none were spotted. And we kept spotting other Varmints as we called and that eventually led to - well you know what Varmint Hunters do when they see Varmints, don't you driver?
I was all out of centerfire ammo when we came across a huge Porcupine and I let my friend with the 243 whack it thus we all earned great favor with the rancher there!
Our day was most blissful and unhurried with frequent sightings of Big Game and Birds of Prey!
The snowline was just a couple of hundred feet above most of our haunts and the roads have still not fully dried from the recent rains and snows.
Oh one more thing there driver, during the morning shoot I let my friend with the 243 Win. Varminter shoot my 204 Ruger, and unintentionally (unknowingly), I may just have made ANOTHER 204 Ruger convert.
On the long drive home he asked me about the 204 Ruger and how much my XR-100 in 204 cost etc! He was using that intent and serious tone with his inquiry that I can recognize as that of coming from one who is a serious player!
I am sure he's hooked on the light recoil and flat trajectory of the 204!
No, there dear driver, you can poo-poo this latest bit of real life hands on experience with the 204 Ruger if you wish but if you do then you are just adding insult to the injury you have already brought upon yourself.
He-he!
Long live the wonderful, new and ballistically superior 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well, I think that it is wonderful that you shot at Williamsport, PA and last time I checked, that was shot from a benchrest. Nope, never done that, only shoot prone, from sling and do so at Quanitico, Oak Ridge, Malvern, and various military bases domestic and foreign. Actually instruct some as well and not real good off the bench for that is an entirely different shooting discipline and admire those who do it well. Just not my style of shooting.
As for shooting vermin, oh yes, shot lots of vermin, all sizes shapes and colors, from all distances and stationary as well as running. Hell some of them I ate and better still, I even cooked them before I ate them!!
What makes you think I believe the 223 is the perfect cartridge, for it is not, but it is a known quantity and tons of data for reloading and performance of the round and that 204 has a long way to go to develop such a body of knowledge. It may well someday become that "perfect" round, but that takes a lot of time and certainly not a few years to do so. Jury is still out if it will even remain available. My God, what a terrible thought, but stranger things have happened.

Now as for you turning heads and believing that Precision Shooting was more technical than you liked certainly comes as no shock. Oh yes, I am sure you turned heads and would imagine that you were a topic of discussion for days and days. Especially after you left them all in awe of your shooting abilities. Yeah you are the guys that make legends in the shooting world.

Now, let's see you want to go hunting for groundhogs or live critter shooting of some sort with me?? Well hell, can't think of anything better than to go hunting with you, and I will even be the gentleman and fair person that I am and give you a couple hours headstart. Can't ask for more fairness than that now, can you??

Any possibility of you being able to answer simple, junior level questions about wind drift, elevation, mirage reading, uphill, downhill, trigger control, breathing techniques etc.???
I thought not. On second thought, you would be much better off sticking with the gun store crowd and impressing eveyone without how little technical knowledge you have. Yes siree, sounds like your style alright, but do not forget to invite those others of the same ilk. (ilk is not a big deer, for your information) I should have known better than to expect you to read the wind, for reading is probably more technical than you like. Yes, just hold into the wind and that will guarantee you a hit. Not sure where, but it will be a hit.
Don't give up, hang in there, with a complete attitude change, many hours of instructions, kind and understanding instructor you may well make it to the MU classification of skilled long range shooters. Forgot, you probably are not familiar with the term, MU. Look it up.

VG sure sounds like you had a great day there in SW. Keep up the good work.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
VG sure sounds like you had a great day there in SW. Keep up the good work.

Yeah, ol VG's a regular Buffalo Bill, but (s)he's got Pinocchio's nose.

driver, I'm not looking to be a legend in anybodies world!! But I can shoot a rifle in my areas of shooting, (bench, truck hood, truck cab top, prone with a bipod, standing with my tri-pod rest((yeah that's the one I was using when I shot the .440" group with the .204 at 500 yards!!!)) I don't give a FRA about your shooting abilities in your "chosen venues"....as well as you don't care about mine!! But I do take offense at the statements about my being able to read and the "too technical" for my simple mind remarks!! Have you ever chucked a barrel blank up in a lathe and measured the bore down to .00005(that's 1/2 of a 10/1000th if you couldn't figure it out!!) to center it before chambering??? Or measured the crown down to the same dimension before cutting it?? Thought not!! I can read! I am technical!! Just not fucking anal about it!! Have a good night and sweet dreams about your superiority to the rest of us "imbeciles" who know what varminting is!! And appreciate the rifles that can do it!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
(Driver) Have a good night and sweet dreams about your superiority to the rest of us "imbeciles" who know what varminting is!! And appreciate the rifles that can do it!! GHD

Well GHD you are the very one who said that you did not like technical matters, something about the Precision Shooter magazine being more technical than you care for and now you say you ARE technical and offer proof in that you can apparently read a micrometer, caliper, operate a lathe, and all sorts of mechanical operations. I would venture a guess that you can even play the radio and speak fluent Canadian!! Outstanding.
Again, you make the typical mistake most spray and pray types make and that is assuming I have no mechanical abilities. Well, not quite true, since I hold both a BS and MS in Mechanical Eng. and could say that I grew up in a machine shop as a kid. Yep, I can do all those things you mention, plus.
One of the plus things is that I took the time and effort to learn to shoot well at a whole variety of targets at many different ranges and conditions and would suggest that you make an attempt to do the same thing. Trust me, it will not hurt and again, you could earn your way to the MU class of shooters. Perhaps????
Now are you sure you do not want to double check your decimal point in the group you are quoting at 500 yards? .440" is less than .500" and your bullet itself is some .200"or your group is just over two bullet diameters at 500 yards! That is a phenominal group or is it just one shot with your bullet keyholing??? Mind you, 1 moa @ 500 yards is approx. 5.0", 1/2moa @ 500 yards is 2.5" and 1/4 moa @ 500 yards is 1.25" and 1/8 moa @ 500 yards is 0.75" Again, might want to double check that claim to group size and you did that all with a factory Savage rifle. Outstanding information in a variety of ways. Matter of fact it speaks volumes and I rest my case.
In closing, I would offer you the same prize as VarmintGuy, just send in box top of your 204 factory ammo box, answer som very basic, junior shooting questions and your prize will be on the way. First one with the right answers will receive the magic wind reading ring and no more just holding into the wind!!
In the event you get them all right, an additional prize will be this very well done, cone hat with a streamer on top only offering additional data for you to read the wind. No second rate prizes here and I am sure you will put them to good use IF you answer those basic, entry level questions. Be advised:
Swearing, jumping up and down, ranting, raving, name calling, bragging, etc. will not get you these fine prizes, only correct answers. May the force be with you!!

drivel driver: You are so predictable! He-he!
Trying to change the subject to try and divert attention from your foolish previous postings is not gonna fly there drivel driver!
You keep refusing to answer questions pertaining to the wonderful new 204 Ruger cartridge - your refusal to defend, support or even argue your previous ludicrous contentions regarding other matters like scope power, safety afield, the wonderful ballistic qualities of the splendid 204 Ruger cartridge and even common sense!
What gives there drivel driver?
So AGAIN, I point out, you have no experience what so ever with this fine cartridge and yet you try to berate it?
Laughable.
You therefore drivel driver are as useless as tits on a bull!
You continue to Hunt Varmints with unsafe bullets therefore you are an unsafe, lazy, egotistical turd!
You cannot defend even one of your ludicrous and baseless claims regarding scope power and the "age" which a cartridge must attain to be used afield, therefore you have attained for yourself this additional classification - bizzarre, unsafe, site troll!
With nothing positive to add here drivel driver, and not enough common sense to make use of others observations and first hand experiences you have also earned another couple of titles - "egotistical, thoughtless turd of the month" AND "chip on your shoulder close minded cretin"!
Yep, there drivel driver you have earned those names and I pronounce them upon you with glee!
Especially the useless as tits on a bull description!
He-he!
You just keep making it easier and easier there oh "drivel driver the titted bull"!
Go get some trigger time in the field with the 204 Ruger and maybe come back after you do - then, maybe someone will then pay attention to your banter.
Til then you are just making a complete fool of yourself - though I am beginning to think you don't mind doing that?
drivel driver I could care less about your "box tops" pettard! I wnat nor do I know anyone that would seek either your approval or your box top red harring.
You can't even stay on topic and argue the point of this thread - thats your problem there drivel driver (of which you obviously suffer from many!).
I simply won't let you even try getting away with changeing the topic.
I will continue to blast your drivel driven blather completely out of the water each time you try to espouse it.
Its easy to do AND I enjoy it!
Love live the wonderful and amazing new Varmint cartridge - the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Any possibility of you being able to answer simple, junior level questions about wind drift, elevation, mirage reading, uphill, downhill, trigger control, breathing techniques etc.???
I thought not. On second thought, you would be much better off sticking with the gun store crowd and impressing eveyone without how little technical knowledge you have. Yes siree, sounds like your style alright, but do not forget to invite those others of the same ilk. (ilk is not a big deer, for your information) I should have known better than to expect you to read the wind, for reading is probably more technical than you like. Yes, just hold into the wind and that will guarantee you a hit. Not sure where, but it will be a hit.
Don't give up, hang in there, with a complete attitude change, many hours of instructions, kind and understanding instructor you may well make it to the MU classification of skilled long range shooters. Forgot, you probably are not familiar with the term, MU. Look it up.

What an absolute jackass. Third grade mentality at best.

whats the furthest effective range of the 204 for coyotes? still unsure what to get for a rifle. since i dont reload, i think id be better with the 204, just want to know how far they can cleanly kill a coyote.

quote:

My subscription ran out years ago and I didn't renew it because those folks are too damn technical and not enough into "let's have fun and do the deal"!!

Well said sir - I always put the 'fun factor' first.

Well, VarmintGuy, no changing of subject for me, just keep asking you and others claiming to be such marksmen to answer basic questions and get the same rhetoric from you and others each and every time. In short, no answers, but more monkey dust trying to avoid answering the basic questions. The questions apply to any caliber, not just the much revered 204. Yep, really simple and if I were you I would not stand for someone calling me an MU for that is about as low as one can get in the shooting world. To go through life with the reputation as an MU is not a good thing at all and will reflect on you for years to come if you do not correct the situation. Better check it out and take corrective steps. Let it be known throughout the Kingdom that from this date forward, VarmintGuy will now be known as MU.

Are you also going to claim that your magnificent 204 which you rave so much about and seem to think it is almost a holy topic, gift from god, ( what are you about 9 years old??) that it will shoot .440" groups at 500 yards?? It would not shock me that you will make such a claim. But perhaps that is too technical for you as well.
I do not berate the 204 caliber one bit nor the rifles used in that caliber, but do berate you as a moron with room temperature IQ for making brash statements about a stupid rifle caliber and yet you have no qualifications of any sort to even qualify as a skilled rifleman. Pray tell me and others, just what credentials do you have to make any claims about shooting any caliber of rifle?? Killing PD's, groundhogs, etc. does not qualify you for anything other than what you call yourself, varmintguy. I and thousands of others have shot varmints for years, numerous calibers and no way that qualifies one to make "qualified statements" about the caliber being used and stating that it is superior to all others out there. You are simply not qualified to make statements about shooting other than in a casual manner.
If you had any training, you would long ago answered basic questions posed to you and if anyone is dodging the point, I would suggest that it is you. Those answers are readilly available, but not found leaning against the counter at your local gun dealer occupying space, nor holding into the wind, spraying and praying of shots, (talk about safety!!) but in dedicated study, discipline, practice, endless dry firing, and the list goes on and on, but forgot none of that is considered necessary or good techninque since you own one of those magical 204 rifles.
I am beginning to believe that you are somewhat mentally challenged and this is graphically reflected in your written responses for it always seems to harken back to name calling, laughing, ( I think you may have a deep internal fear of someone laughing at you for you always seem to include that in your answers like that is a real bad thing???? might ask a professional about that fear of yours) raving, ranting, etc. and ignoring any factual data about shooting or your much loved (wierd!!) 204 Ruger. I should have realized your delima some several posts ago and will in the future be a whole lot easier and less demanding on you. If, and I repeat if, you do answer those simple, basic marksmanship questions, and since you are a special case, we will not require the ammo box tops. Promise! Mind you, can't do that for everyone now. Still looking forward to those answers and remember, that is the only way to rid yourself ot the title you will now be known as, MU. MUVarmintGuy, has sort of a ring to it , don't you think??

PS
Holding into the wind is not the way to eliminate the MU title.

drivel driver: Your ass is hanging out again and I am here to take ANOTHER chunk out of it - publicly!
He-he!
Don't you ever get tired of being humiliated?
So be it, oh witless and unsafe one!
The original posting, that you are now trying to avoid, had to do with the 204 Ruger and its splendid (and surprising to some) ballistic qualitities and accuracy!
If you are going to try again to change the subject after attempting to besmirchment that fine cartridge and those of us who KNOW that, I am again here, not to let you!
If you have some experience (ANY EXPERIENCE!) or proof to the contrary then post it!
It obvious, time and again, that you don't and can't - so now you in your futility are trying to resort to changing the subject to various ludicrous, baseless, and irrelevent scenarios!
Ain't gonna fly there drivel driver!
You have been proven a fraud, a frump and a contrarian.
Your attempts at changing the subject are and will be futile!
I again suggest that you actually go get some trigger time with a 204 Ruger (both at the range and on Varmints) and then come back here, like a man would, and share your first hand experiences.
You have been caught trying to besmirch a fine cartridge and trying to influence folks when you have nothing to influence them with or proof of your contentions!
You just go ahead and try to get away with calling my real life, hands on, experiences and long time usage of the 204 Ruger as well as the glaringly obvious wonderful ballistic performance it has - rantings and ravings!
It simply helps prove my case for me!
The only person trying to besmirch the fine 204 is a contrary, with a huge ego and a chip on his shoulder - and he has NO EXPERIENCE what so ever with the very object he is trying to denounce!
Laughable!
You have absolutely no idea what you are even blathering about anymore drivel driver!
And you are getting a little dry there again drivel driver - try to ratchet up the laughability quotient of your BS so at least we can laugh at you while we peruse your drivel.
And again thats all you are good for there drivel driver - a laugh now and then!
I keep happily pointing out your numerous shortcomings there drivel master! I hope you don't mind being humiliated so often in public?
Keep it coming drivel driver if you insist.
I can't wait to take you out behind the cyber-space woodshed and give you another good old fashioned ass whuppin!
Yes, drivel driver YOU started the name calling and theres an old saying that you contrary egotistical types should heed - if you can't take it there drivel driver, don't dish it out!
You have been bested and proven a contrary a fraud, an unsafe shooter, a poor sportsman and you have an egotistically swollen head with a chip on your shoulder! In short you are a site troll and a lout!
Thats no ones problem there drivel driver but yours!
A real man would try to solve some of those shortcomings - starting with your penchant for unsafe shooting!
No one deserves to be placed in harms way by your laziness and lunacy.
Long live the splendid and accurate and wonderful Varminting cartridge - the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: drivel driver I am still waiting to laugh at what ever answer you may try to burp up for the oft posed question of you - at what "age" do you contend, does a cartridge MAGICALLY attain the ability to perform splendidly in the Varminting fields?
I am just about absolutely certain, you have NO IDEA, how stupid you sound there drivel driver!

drivel driver: Please follow the attached link to a rather "enlightening" article written by a VARMINT HUNTER about HIS happiness with the 204 Ruger!
He does some side by side comparisons of the 204 Ruger and the 223 Remington!
He-he!
Pay special attention to the first paragraph if you can remember to do that?
Please, drivel driver, try to have an open mind when you read this very interesting article and view some VERY handsome Varmint Rifles shooting Varmint safe bullets!
Long live the wonderful new 204 Ruger cartridge!

Link below:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek047.html

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, great article.

---Mike

Hey VarmintGuy,
Be honest now, do you sleep with your 204??? I do not claim that caliber is a "bad" one but neither do I scream to the highest mountain that it is the greatest thing to varmint shooting since rifle scopes!! You make these claims and have no evidence of being able to tell a good cartridge from a bad one. Why should anyone think your opinion is anything other than that, just an opinion??? You know how man people have an opinion and what they are like?? I thought you would know that.
Never once have attempted to answer any basic question about marksmanship, but only "field" experience and that being "shoot and Look See..." Sorry, won't fly, you will henceforth be known as the CHIEF MU until you answer those basic questions. I will see to it that the NRA sends to you the formal plastic embossed wallet card with the correct title-CHIEF MU.
All the talk about the 204 is your smoke screen my friend, and that smoke screen is your feeble attempt to avoid providing evidence that you have any knowledge of what you are talking about. Nope, the 204's ability is not in question here, but you , Mr. MU.
Hell, take a chance, do some research, check out he questions I posed to you. It is an obvious fact that you will learn something about shooting and that can' t be all that bad can it?? Oh yeah, that group size quoted by one of the proponents of the 204 is an outstanding group. Have you ever come close to that group at 500 yards w/ your 204??
No changing subjects with me, I have asked you from the git go how you qualify your elaborate claims about the 204 and to show evidence that you have training, knowledge, and experience and all we hear is "field experience" and more monkey dust and in short, no answers. Somewhat interesting to see you avoid the real topic, you and your skills in shooting with whatever caliber, but your childish comments tend to bore me a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by DRIVEL DRIVER
your childish comments tend to bore me a bit.

That's why you keep responding loser!

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Hey VarmintGuy,
...You make these claims and have no evidence of being able to tell a good cartridge from a bad one.

HUH?

So I suppose, driver, ACTUAL FIELD EXPERIENCE means nothing, unless of course it is contained within some structured "competition" where a lot of paper is punched, according to the "rules" of course.
PETA NOTICE: no actual animals were harmed during the punching of this paper.

Hogwash!

Seeing as you report no actual experience with the .204 (or any other cartridge except the .223, for that matter) your opinion means nothing.

And if I get 20+ guys telling me the exact same thing and nobody telling me different, eventually common sense wins out. At least in my case!
When you have this many people saying the same thing, it can no longer be considered a statistical anomaly and warrants further investigation.

And I get to go out and buy a new gun!

I may not have years of technical training (buy I may) and I may not be able to tell the difference between .00005†and .000005†when machining (but I may), I can tell you the difference in MANY cartridges from actual use.

Something unfortunately it seems you can’t do, even with ALL of your accreditations.
Which just goes to show there are MANY overeducated yet ignorant people in the world.

drivel driver, You have got to be most ignorant, arrogant POS I've ever encountered on any forum I've ever visited(if there any worse than you, I hope I never visit the board they're on!!!) Yea, the group was .440!! and the distance was 500 yards.....with the .204!! Guess you should have been here!!! It was witnessed by another forum member too!! Now can I repeat that feat?????????? Probably not on an everyday basis!! But you know 3X that group size wouldn't be bad!!! ES&D mr drivel driver!! GHD

Well said gentlemen, wonder if he'll get the hint

I don't own a 204 Ruger so have no first hand knowledge but I will say those groups posted on the 6br site were pretty good and I've seen afew groups posted on other site and they look as good. I've only seen 5 being shot at our club when I've been there one was a Cooper and by far the best the others were around 1/2".
Myself I enjoy shooting alot of different calibers so learned to like them all. I know my 22-250AI will out shoot my 223AI and 222AI but it doesn't stop me from shooting those calibers because I will not fall into that trap of comparing this against that. I don't hunt varmits with only one caliber maybe if I did might look at things different. My reason for me to have a 20 cal rifle build would be as an addition to my of varmit rifles not becasue it will out shoot some of my other varmit rifles. Well good luck to all

Groundhog Devastation, do you really know just how small a .440" group at 500 Yards actually is?? I don't think so and trust me, bunches of knowledgeable shooters would not think so either. You mention three times that group and trust me, that alone would be worthy of long article in one of the many shooting magazines you must read. Furthermore, you have never shot a group at 500 yards three times that size either!! It's bullshit , pure and simple and you know it!!
Wake up and realize what you are claiming makes it so obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about that it is ridiculous!! Do you or a couple of your store front buddies out there even know what MOA stands for or it's application in shooting and accuracy claims??
I thought not, and again you make assumptions not based on fact, but the 222, 220 Swift, 22-250(probably the best varmint round ever and an excellent long range match round w/ the right twist) 223, 243, 260, 308, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua are all rounds that I have spent a lot of time with and each one has good and bad points, but the caliber is not the issue w/ you and some others as earlier mentioned, but your total ignorance of what you are talking about-shooting and as it applies to varmint hunting.
Nasty name calling will only continue to maintain your and others status as MU's and only correct answers and evidence of knowledge, training, and achievement will erase the title so befitting to you. Go down to the local gun store, shop, find someone who knows shooting and tell them you shoot groups of less than 1/2" (not 1/2 moa now, but 1/2", big difference!!!) at 500 yards and couple things will happen. 1. Laugh out loud. 2. Total silence and walk away. 3. Ask for evidence of such a miracle.
Believe any of the three would be a real eye opener for you.

Take a drive down to Oak Ridge, Tenn. sometime and observe some real shooters there and you can stretch your shots/range clear out to 1000 yards if you want, but while you are there, ask around if many of those fellows/gals shoot .440" groups at 500 yards or 3x that or even 4 or 5x that number!! Hey, numbnuts, 1/2moa at 500 yards is 2.5" and well tuned match level rifles attain that goal w/ excellent loads and highest level of skill. No benches, no bags, sticks, car hoods, sling/prone position only.
Oh, and you want to brag about real world experiences, well, many of those shooters have years of real world experience, field experience, hunting experience, varmints, etc. and in fact many there have had their "real world"experience on targets that shoot back!! Would not suggest you make brash claims to a group of folks who actually know what they are doing for we have no time for idle claims of those with no credentials. By the way, bull shit is not a credential. Yep, MU for you and may you wear the title proudly-you richly deserve it!!

PS All of you folks supporting the groups of .440" at 500 yards need only look at the group photos shown on the 6br site posted as evidence of how great the 204 is. Mind you that group was shot at 100 yards!!, not 500 yards and believe that pretty well sums it up.

Driver,
You are without a doubt, one of the most arrogant sounding people I’ve ever had the displeasure of encountering. I don’t think I’d like you.

Actually "drivel dude", the group measueres outside to outside, .60953!!! Now subtractin the dullet diameter to get the center to center measurement, shrinks it down to .40535!!!!! The .440" was a "rough estimate"!!! As I said last night, ES&D!!!! You are what gives shooting a bad name!!! So you've shot something that can shoot back??????Must not have been very damn good at it!!! Cause there's a lot of them wanting to shoot back now!!! And if you're teaching the shooters, NO F'ing wonder!!! What you paper punching, mechanical engineering types need is a "common sense"(sometimes B.S., MS. phD. suffixes cloud one's mind!!!) approach to the problem!!! Obviously you fall into the clouded category!!! I shot it!! I did it!! I've killed more varmints than you've ever seen and you must be high on the corn sqeezins from "Rocky Top"!!!!! You are absolutely the stupidist poster I've ever encountered!! And likewise for a lot of other folks here!! There are some good folks down in TN!!! But bet they're not proud of you!!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Do you or a couple of your store front buddies out there even know what MOA stands for or it's application in shooting and accuracy claims??

Well yes I do, you arrogant putz.

Most firearm sighting scopes incorporate windage and elevation adjustments referenced to MOA (minute of angle). Each click of the scope turret is usually 1/4 MOA change and on some scopes 1/8 MOA.
Normally, shooters refer to these adjustments as a change of a fraction of an inch at 100 yards rather than the true value of MOA for which they are supposedly calibrated to. The value of inch is a nice easy number to work with and most of us can easily visualize its length and its multiples without the aid of a calculator. Actually the comparison is close enough to not be of practical concern, especially at distances up to a few hundred yards, and the real difference is a mere 0.47 inch at 1000 yards. For serious target shooting and as shooting distances increase the attention to MOA value relative to sight adjustment becomes more essential.

Calculating Minute of Angle
The angle of an arc is expressed in number of degrees. There are 360 degrees of arc to a full circle. Each degree consists of 60 minutes of arc. The distance covered by the measure of arc is relative to the circumference (total distance around the circle) it is contained within. Knowing the radius (distance to center of circle) circumference is easily calculated by using the constant pi . The ratio (represented by pi ) of circumference is constant to diameter (radius x 2) regardless of circle size. The precise value of pi is so far unknown to man but is normally resolved to 3.1416 or 3.141 for our purposes.
Suppose a circle with a 6 inch radius. Circumference can be calculated as:

circumference = (radius x 2) x pi
circumference = (6 x 2) x 3.1416
circumference = 12 x 3.1416
circumference = 37.6992 inches

The distance covered by 1 degree of angle (37.6992 / 360 or, circumference divided by 360 degrees) is 0.1047 inch at 6 inches from center of circle.
And, 1 minute of angle represents (0.1047 / 60 or, 1 degree divided by 60 minutes) 0.001745 inch at 6 inches from center of circle.

Knowing what MOA represents allows us to calculate its value to any distance.
Six inches (the radius of the above example) is 1/600th of 100 yards: (100 yards x 36 inches) / 6 inches = 600
Therefore, the value of MOA at 100 yards is 1.047 inches (0.001745 x 600 = 1.047)
At 50 yards 1/2 the 100 yard value; 70% @ 70 yards; twice @ 200 yards; 6 times @ 600 yards; and so on.
So, the difference between thinking in inches as opposed to MOA is 0.47 inch @ 1000 yards.

BFD!

.047†difference @ 100 yards.

In this forum that still constitutes a dead varmint.

I have seen groups at 100 and 200 yards where the multiple holes in the target were so close that they were uncountable. Measuring the outside of the single frayed hole and subtracting the bullet diameter left less than .090â€

Just because YOU can’t do this, does not mean it cannot be done.

Just for the record, I was there when GHD shot this group. We were only about two miles from my house. I put up the NEW target myself, rode back on the fourwheeler, and watched everything through the spotting scope. I was not able to see much through the spotting scope, but I almost crapped my pants when I did go get the target. I am not saying it could be done ten times in a row, but I did see this happen and I have no reason to lie. It was simply amazing, I have seen him shoot this rifle off of a bench, the hood of a truck and many other shooting posisitons, but this one takes the cake. It does not matter if you do or do not belive either one of us, we know what happened. And easy on the guys from TN, GHD, YOU KNOW THAT IS WHERE I AM FROM! LMAO!

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Actually "drivel dude", the group measueres outside to outside, .60953!!! Now subtractin the dullet diameter to get the center to center measurement, shrinks it down to .40535!!!!! The .440" was a "rough estimate"!!! As I said last night, ES&D!!!! You are what gives shooting a bad name!!! So you've shot something that can shoot back??????Must not have been very damn good at it!!! Cause there's a lot of them wanting to shoot back now!!! And if you're teaching the shooters, NO F'ing wonder!!! What you paper punching, mechanical engineering types need is a "common sense"(sometimes B.S., MS. phD. suffixes cloud one's mind!!!) approach to the problem!!! Obviously you fall into the clouded category!!! I shot it!! I did it!! I've killed more varmints than you've ever seen and you must be high on the corn sqeezins from "Rocky Top"!!!!! You are absolutely the stupidist poster I've ever encountered!! And likewise for a lot of other folks here!! There are some good folks down in TN!!! But bet they're not proud of you!!! GHD

GHD

I just bought a Savage Model 12 VLP and would like to know what load you use to shoot that group, as I am assuming it is your most accurate load. Brass, powder, bullet, primer....etc. Thanks for the help.

Flippy,
Don't know how to break it to you, but your math is totally screwed up. Can you not see how there is a huge difference between this mythical .440"(inch) group at 500 yards and .440 moa group @ 500 yards????? One moa at 500 is approx 5" and .44 hundreths, or less than 1/2 moa at that range, 500 yards, is 2.2"!! If the rifle shot even that well, that is outstanding and yes, you are correct, I do not believe any groups(unless it is a group of 1 shot and it keyholed!) shot at 500 yards of less than a 1/2" I am sure the mfg. will buy that rifle back from you at a large profit.

Now as for the folks at Oak Ridge, TN., like I said, go there and tell them of this fabulous group you shot. Again, I already told you what the responses will be and since you are such a "group shooter" go there and have a try at the match. They will let you shoot from a rest, bipod, bags, no benches allowed, 6,8,9,or 1000 yards. and help you any way they can to rid you of the MU title. Seriously, they shoot there every month and not sure where you are, but you can make it in less than a day, back and forth based on your stated location. Now, when you return, be sure and report how that rifle shot and how you were able to shoot those groups. Those folks there do not shoot for group size, but score and that is even better for a group shooter like you claim to be. Hell at 600 yards with the X ring being some 1 MOA in size, you will shoot all X's, no sweat. Actually there are those that do that from a bag, bi pods, etc. so you should have no problems at all. Oh, Groundhogdevastation would appreciate you including him on the trip to Oak Ridge and he as well would have the chance to rid himself of the MU title he proudly carries.

Are you sure you want to stick with that statement that the difference in thinking in inches as opposed to MOA at 1000 yards is 0.47"???? Think now, double check your answer.
0.47 of an inch at 1000 yards is just that, 0.47" of an inch or less than .50", period!!
0.47moa at 1000 yards is 4.7" at 1000 yards, period!! Ten times greater than 100 just as 1000 yards is 10 times greater in distance than 100 yards!! I rest my case and on second thought, do not go to Oak Ridge, they may talk you into holding targets for them (kind of like javelin catchers, olympic sport you know) of course you could always let Groundhogdevastation pull that duty for you.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Flippy,
Don't know how to break it to you, but your math is totally screwed up. Can you not see how there is a huge difference between this mythical .440"(inch) group at 500 yards and .440 moa group @ 500 yards????? One moa at 500 is approx 5" and .44 hundreths, or less than 1/2 moa at that range, 500 yards, is 2.2"!! If the rifle shot even that well, that is outstanding and yes, you are correct, I do not believe any groups(unless it is a group of 1 shot and it keyholed!) shot at 500 yards of less than a 1/2" I am sure the mfg. will buy that rifle back from you at a large profit.

Now as for the folks at Oak Ridge, TN., like I said, go there and tell them of this fabulous group you shot. Again, I already told you what the responses will be and since you are such a "group shooter" go there and have a try at the match. They will let you shoot from a rest, bipod, bags, no benches allowed, 6,8,9,or 1000 yards. and help you any way they can to rid you of the MU title. Seriously, they shoot there every month and not sure where you are, but you can make it in less than a day, back and forth based on your stated location. Now, when you return, be sure and report how that rifle shot and how you were able to shoot those groups. Those folks there do not shoot for group size, but score and that is even better for a group shooter like you claim to be. Hell at 600 yards with the X ring being some 1 MOA in size, you will shoot all X's, no sweat. Actually there are those that do that from a bag, bi pods, etc. so you should have no problems at all. Oh, Groundhogdevastation would appreciate you including him on the trip to Oak Ridge and he as well would have the chance to rid himself of the MU title he proudly carries.

Are you sure you want to stick with that statement that the difference in thinking in inches as opposed to MOA at 1000 yards is 0.47"???? Think now, double check your answer.
0.47 of an inch at 1000 yards is just that, 0.47" of an inch or less than .50", period!!
0.47moa at 1000 yards is 4.7" at 1000 yards, period!! Ten times greater than 100 just as 1000 yards is 10 times greater in distance than 100 yards!! I rest my case and on second thought, do not go to Oak Ridge, they may talk you into holding targets for them (kind of like javelin catchers, olympic sport you know) of course you could always let Groundhogdevastation pull that duty for you.

Driver you are an absolute moron. He never said that an inch was the same as MOA. He was pointing out the difference in measurement. Everyone on the board knows that a rifle that shoots a .49" group at 578 yards is exactly that a .49" group. If it is a .49MOA group at 578 yards the group size in inches is 2.83"group. Do you really think you are that much smarter than the rest of us? What a f*cking moron.

He apparently does think he’s that much smarter than the rest of us thus the arrogance. He sounds like a kid that read just enough about LR shooting to make him a pita to the rest of us. He ought to go pedal his drivel over on sniper’s hide where some real “ass in the grass†types can set him straight. Hint- not a lot of those folks are shooting 223’s out past 500. There’s a lot of 308, 6.5-284, or whatever variant of the 6.5-08 that D. Tubb is on to these days

Now, now, Neverflinch, nice try, but it is perfectly clear what the man stated what he meant and he has no idea what he is talking about. Check it out, he says there is only 0.47" difference between thinking in inches as opposed to MOA and that is flat ass wrong, end of story. No not everyone on the board knows this and that appears to include you.

Now billhilly66 no one said that the 223 is all that shot with and in fact use the 308, 6.5/284, 260, 30-06, 300 Win. Mag, 22-250 w/ 8 twist, and yes the 223 at long range. As for G.D.Tubbs, have pulled targets and shot with the man at Perry more than once. Do yourself a favor and ask Tubbs if he has ever seen a 204 or any other group shot so small at 500 yards. You already know the answer but, alas you would probably argure with him as well. Another MU to put on the list and oh, my, the list is growing.

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Actually "drivel dude", the group measures outside to outside, .60953!!! Now subtracting the bullet diameter to get the center to center measurement, shrinks it down to .40535!!!!! The .440" was a "rough estimate"!!! GHD

Where do you get .440 MOA from this?
And all these years I thought quotation marks(“) meant inches.
Who knew it meant MOA…

Here is my original quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
So, the difference between thinking in inches as opposed to MOA is 0.47 inch @ 1000 yards.

BFD!

.047†difference @ 100 yards.

Driver, so what you are saying is that 1 MOA is NOT equal to 1.047†@100 yards? And you would obviously have to add .47†for each MOA as that is the difference between an inch and EACH MOA you freakin idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Flippy,
Don't know how to break it to you, but your math is totally screwed up. Can you not see how there is a huge difference between this mythical .440"(inch) group at 500 yards and .440 moa group @ 500 yards?????

…Are you sure you want to stick with that statement that the difference in thinking in inches as opposed to MOA at 1000 yards is 0.47"???? Think now, double check your answer.
0.47 of an inch at 1000 yards is just that, 0.47" of an inch or less than .50", period!!
0.47moa at 1000 yards is 4.7" at 1000 yards, period!! Ten times greater than 100 just as 1000 yards is 10 times greater in distance than 100 yards!! I rest my case and on second thought, do not go to Oak Ridge, they may talk you into holding targets for them (kind of like javelin catchers, olympic sport you know) of course you could always let Groundhogdevastation pull that duty for you.

Driver you are really screwed up. Hey that’s it---SCREWdriver
Was it a good batch or a bad batch? (the crack you smoked, that is).

Where the hell did you get .440 MOA from .440†and how many “come ups†did it take you to reach this conclusion?

I bet your parents are proud…

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Flippy,
Don't know how to break it to you, but your math is totally screwed up.

Really?

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
0.47moa at 1000 yards is 4.7" at 1000 yards, period!!

Ten times greater than 100 just as 1000 yards is 10 times greater in distance than 100 yards!!

SCREWdriver, so what you are saying is .1 MOA AT 1000 YARDS EXACTLY EQUALS ONE INCH AT THE SAME DISTANCE?

Not only is that incorrect, but 1 MOA does not equal 1 inch at 100 yards.
One MOA equals 1.047 inches at 100 yards. That is the multiplier you would use to convert MOA to the correct measurement in inches.

0.47 MOA would equal 4.9209 inches at 1000 yards.
(0.47 times 1000 (yards) times 1.047 = 4.9209)

One MOA equals 10.47 inches at 1000 yards or 10 times 1.047 inches (the distance 1 MOA subtends @ 100 yards).

MOA are not subject to distance as the angle begins at the point of origin and not at 100 yards, 200 yards, etc.

As you are a self proclaimed “big time†target shooter (or MU) you should know that…

quote:

Originally posted by Neverflinch:
Do you really think you are that much smarter than the rest of us? What a f*cking moron.

Neverflinch, couldn't have said it better!

Hello Flippy,
Just as I figured, got your moa and inches confused. Does that occur when you measure other things as well?? Probably does I would guess. I think it is again obvious that practical shooting experience is absent from a couple of you varmint hunters for it is well known that a MOA is generally accepted to be equal to 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, etc. Arguing the additional places as you point out is somewhat at best nonsense. Plain and simple, you don't know the difference between inches and moa at any distance. Again, MU level of shooting experience and bullshit talk and jumping up and down and calling names, denying any knowledge of shooting discipline will not be of any assistance to anyone and primarily you.

Again, have you any claim to shooting skills, marksmanship, training, discipline, etc. to support your arguments?? Have not heard any and again, visit a range and check out some real shooters, those with earned credits and experience of all types of shooting, live and paper and you will come away with some useful knowledge, hopefully for it will lead to more intelligent discussions on shooting.

You have a target of opportunity at a est. distance of 650 yards, est. wind of 6 mph from 2-8(clockface) level ground condition. Caliber is .308, 175MK bullet, vel. 2800 fps, mirage visible, you have a 100 yard elevation zero, mechanical zero on wind on the gun, what are you going to do for adjustment of the sights to get a hit?? Remember the part about mirage. Your sight has 1/4 minute adjust. E&W. How much elevation and wind adj. are you going to put on?? ( Think only in terms of MOA.) And, you have at best 20 seconds to make the adj. and take the shot. No books, calculators, wind meters, gun magazines, ballistic tables, etc. just what is in your head put there from training and experience and a little item known as discipline. Oh, and by the way, check out the much ballyhooed 204 and see if it can do this shot and what bullet weight would one use?? Have not done that sort of shooting with the 204?? Not a problem with the 223, and others set up correctly. Yes, you can do it with the 204 but do you have any idea what you have to do??? Not interested in the challenging sport of shooting varmints more than two or three football fields away?? Spray and pray does not work folks.
Let me remind you that in this somewhat simple question, you damn well better know the difference between MOA and inches. Oh, and by the way, while making the proper adjustments, you notice the mirage stops. What now?? Wind is still present and in fact seems a bit stronger????? Do I change my settings and if so, how much??
Mind you, this is MU level of information and there are more levels to go to make any real claims of shooting skills, varmints or otherwise.

I can hear all the screaming now, varies by caliber, temp., pressure, humidity, and so on and so on, but keep hearing the term practical and that is exactly what we are talking about- real world. Point is, the method of determing the answers to the problem is the same for whatever caliber. If you do not know how to do it and do it quickly, correctly, you are totally lost and hence the title many still wear of MU. Don't just bitch and moan and nit pick, give it your best shot so to speak. Again, you might learn something.
Now, Flippy, such harsh words and anger and frustration is not good for you and does "your mommy" know you are so angry. Calm down and it will be ok, and once you put some facts and training into your shooting world, a certain peace and tranquillity will fall over you such as you have never experienced before. In closing, look forward to seeing any and all answers to the above field, practical, real world questions on basic shooting skills. What's that?? Don't want to take the stupid test?? That does not suprise me one bit, but such a loss of opportunity to learn something. Hell, it's an open book test and still don't want to take it??

PS Noticed you are in Oregon area, give Otto Weber a call at OK Weber's shooting supplies business. He can help you and he can answer these basic questions also.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Hello Flippy,
Just as I figured, got your moa and inches confused. Does that occur when you measure other things as well?? Probably does I would guess. I think it is again obvious that practical shooting experience is absent from a couple of you varmint hunters for it is well known that a MOA is generally accepted to be equal to 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, etc. Arguing the additional places as you point out is somewhat at best nonsense. Plain and simple, you don't know the difference between inches and moa at any distance Again, MU level of shooting experience and bullshit talk and jumping up and down and calling names, denying any knowledge of shooting discipline will not be of any assistance to anyone and primarily you.

PS Noticed you are in Oregon area, give Otto Weber a call at OK Weber's shooting supplies business. He can help you and he can answer these basic questions also.

SCREWdriver, I just told you the difference.

And I know Otto (OK Weber). He is the largest supplier of Sierra bullets in the US if not the earth. Otto sells shooting supplies at our gun shows. I bought from him at our last gun show.

He would tell me that those "nonsensical additional places†as you put it are what makes up benchrest and technical shooting. Why spend all that time and money (and lots of money, BTW) for top notch equipment, and then say, “that’s close enough?â€

I know that some shooting disciplines go for group size and not placement, but that does not change the fact that MOA and inches ARE DIFFERENT.

Yes at 100 yards or maybe even 200, those differences might be “nonsense,†but they begin to multiply as the distance increases. And as a self-proclaimed “expert†you should be making the argument for those "nonsensical additional places†as you put them.

Why else would there be a market for MOA calculators, etc. and why would the military go to all of the trouble to use MOA if an inch is EXACTLY THE SAME?

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
0.47moa at 1000 yards is 4.7" at 1000 yards, period!!

Ten times greater than 100 just as 1000 yards is 10 times greater in distance than 100 yards!!

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Let me remind you that in this somewhat simple question, you damn well better know the difference between MOA and inches.

First you argue about precision and then you say close enough.
Which is it?

Driver, now you know why I choose to not hang around certain benchrest shooters at our range. Simply put (for your benefit, Driver) many like you, are arrogant assholes.

Flippy, who ever said anything about benchrest shooters??? Not me, prone, sitting, kneeling, off hand, but no bench, just the use of a rifle sling. Ever learn to use one?? I doubt it. Might mention that there are several good books written about the use of the rifle sling and how it can be of tremendous aid to the shooter. Nope, benchrest shooting is whole different ball game and great one at that, but not my cup of tea.
Come on now, surely you with all your smart ass answers and bull shit can answer these simple real world questions on shooting in the field can' t you?? Hell, recruit VarmintGuy and GHD, not a problem at all. Anyone making claims about group sizes, fantastic performance of the 204 Ruger is someone else other than me.
Since you know Otto Weber so well, tell him about the marvelous performance of the 204 and shooting .440" groups at 500 yards. Be sure and let us all know what he has to say about that, OK.
Again, you totally do not understand MOA and inches regarding the shooting disciplines. If you had ever had any formal training, experience in long range shooting, you would well know that one always speaks in terms of moa sight adjustments. 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 or even 1 moa (1") adj. are the common adj. for sights, not any finer or smaller in adjustment. Nope, 1/8 moa is about as fine as you are going to see on sights. Anshutz micrometer sights do go as fine as even 1/10th, but not normal. How many "clicks," marks, etc. would you have to move your 1/8 moa sight to adjust for 700 yard elevation come ups for your favorite rifle/load?? Ever wonder why optics mfg.'s offer 30mm tube scopes other than greater light transmission?? I didn't think so.

You would be far better off to quit quibbling about additional places to the right of the decimal point, trying to cover your ignorance, throwing up monkey dust, calling names, appearing as a 9 year old, and learn to shoot and by the way, I do know a few benchrest shooters, and you should have no fear about hanging around them, they will not be asking your opinions on any shooting topics I am sure. You do miss a golden opportunity to learn for no group has contributed more to the knowledge bank of shooting than the benchrest shooters for civilians. One of your "fellows" claims he went to the benchrest shoot held in Williamsport, PA and he "opened their eyes" with his performance. However he claims that they were too technical and of no real world value to him. Earlier post asked some real basic, yes, real basic field questions on shooting and have yet to hear any answers other than bull shit. No benchrest experience required to answer those questions, just hard core training and lots of field experience. Any of you bull shooters want to take a shot at the answers?? I guarantee you there are some out there that can answer them and my hat is off to them and more power to them. C'mon Flippy, GHD, VG, et al, give it your best shot!! Don't have all day to get these answers for the targets don't sit around waiting for you to calculate 4-5 decimal places and trying to figure out the wind speed, angle, mirage, etc.
Where is all this real world, field type shooting expertise I have been hearing about?? Killing more varmints than any other human on the planet??? 204 greatest varmint round in the Galaxy???? Group sizes unknown to common mortals??? Empty bragging, hollow claims, likely no experience at all and total blow hards and yes, that and you are exactly what gives any bad name to shooting sports!! Fortunately they do not last long for when someone chanllenges their bragging bull shit and empty claims they resort to same old crap, loud noises, but no answers to honest real world questions regarding shooting. I doubt if you are even qualified to the title of MU, and better suited for AC (ammo carrier)

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Where is all this real world, field type shooting expertise I have been hearing about?? Killing more varmints than any other human on the planet??? 204 greatest varmint round in the Galaxy???? Group sizes unknown to common mortals??? Empty bragging, hollow claims, likely no experience at all and total blow hards and yes, that and you are exactly what gives any bad name to shooting sports!! Fortunately they do not last long for when someone chanllenges their bragging bull shit and empty claims they resort to same old crap, loud noises, but no answers to honest real world questions regarding shooting. I doubt if you are even qualified to the title of MU, and better suited for AC (ammo carrier)

What is funny about you SCREWdriver, is we are ALL supposed to take what you say as gospel just because YOU SAY SO.

WTF?

Talk about

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Empty bragging, hollow claims, likely no experience at all and total blow hards and yes, that and you are exactly what gives any bad name to shooting sports!!

Like you? This is an INTERNET forum.
You could be some 10-year-old kid with a Daisy Red Rider for all we know.

Nice try you pompous, arrogant putz. Your attitude is EXACTLY why I screen the people I hang with at the range.
95% are great, helpful and fun to be around. They don’t take themselves too seriously.
The other 5% have the same chip on their shoulder as you.

WOW.........theres some serious flaming going on here. But let me break in here and ask a question to those of you who "DO" like the .204. What power scope would you suggest or do you use? I've been looking at getting a Savage or Remington in .204 (I don't care for detachable mags, they ruin the look of the gun, just my opinion) and was looking at a scope in the 4-14 range. Is a 6-20 power range more condusive to gound squirrel and dog targets or will the 4-14 be enough? Thanks....and sorry to interrupt.