Driver, you,ve been blown out of the water by VarmintGuy. I'd pay $20 to see both of you in the field, shooting unknown ranges on a gusty day. My money says VarmintGuy will be hitting consistently, while you're still piddling with your scope knobs. Don't get me wrong; I understand comeups and scopes with Mil Dot reticles (I have one on a .308), but I also know that real world shooting without wind flags and measured range targets will show who the real rifleman is. I think you will find that if you can go out to an area where you can safely shoot at ranges from 300 to 1000 yards.....with no rangefinder (other than your rifle scope), no wind flags, and shooting at various angles of wind at various ranges, at fleeting, gun shy varmints, you'll learn a lot more in one season than five years of shooting at an established range.

Before you ask, I'll say that the only range I have ever shot on was while in the military, many years ago. Now, I DO measure off a "homebrew" range to zero, and check bullet drop at established distances, but immediately pull the markers, so they don't get in the way of combines or sprayers.

One last thing......if you will get out and start popping varmints for local farmers, you'll open up a huge area for you to play in. Around here, in Eastern Virginia, landowners often offer to buy my components for me to reload with. Around here,good varmint hunters are sought by farmers that are pressed to keep the critters thinned out.

Best regards, Jim

Now, I do not recall once mentioning an AR15 or any other semi auto and the reason I do not recall is that I did not mention it. ( You are doing what is known as jumping to conclusions without any factual basis. You seem to have a habit of that sort.) Used one years ago, still have one, don't use it for varmints, could, but prefer the bolt gun, Rem. 700 26" Krieger barrel, 1/7 twist, works fine all the way to the 1000 yard mark. Tricky in the wind, you bet, but that is part of the challenge. You ought to try it sometime, but do not advise that with the 204. Yeah, they make bolt guns in all sorts of calibers these days. Have another Remington 700 only in 22-250 w/ Douglas 8 twist barrel, 30" in length. Oustanding varmint and target rifles at all ranges. Use both micrometer and optical sights at all ranges for targets. Use the Leupold MK4 M1 16X w/ duplex for optics.
Bottom line is simply that if you can not determine wind speed dope from the examples I gave you, you still got your head up your ass, plain and simple. That information and how to solve the problem is basic to the most junior of shooters and here you are making all these wild claims of the 204 cartridge and how it is the ultimate varmint round and you have not a clue as to what shooting is about, not one clue. If you did, you could answer the most basic of questions. Rant, rave, call names, but that does not provide any factual data that you know what you are talking about. Trust me, there are tons of knowledge about shooting that I am not blessed with, but I can definitely tell you when someone is talking nonsense and definitely reads too much about shooting instead of earning his stripes and learning to shoot.
No, not a self professed champion at everything, but did earn, repeat earn, the highest classification for long range shooting-High Master. I don't think I caught your classification?? Did I miss that in your bio?? By the way, did mine with micrometer peep sights, not optics. You know the old saying, did it the ol' fashion way, I earned it! Well, it's been fun and hope you the best with your 204 and feel sorry for those varmints out there. Probably won't be any left if you can just get enough ammo stored up.

God Bless, God Speed, and Good Luck. (got a feeling you are going to need all three!)

Not as much a you son! You got a pretty big chip on your shoulder.

Well River Rat, never said anything about having to turn knobs/drums to accomplish hits on vermin or paper targets, but do say that you have to understand the flight of the bullet and understand the hold over, left or right doping of the wind and can say that have done so for many a year and have some documeted evidence of a particular shooting skill. I have yet to hear any claim of fact for this fellows shooting skills other than just loose talk. That don't get it.
To make brash claims about a given cartridge and it is destined to be the varmint king of all cartridges from someone who does not even understand wind adjustment, elevation adjustment, is simply loose talk, plain and simple. Again, the questions I posed are not "tests" I made up but are quite common ones with dedicated riflemen and as I said, the most junior shooter would know the answers. You are right that shooting targets at given ranges is not the same as shooting varmints, but one definitely supports the other and to claim it does not is wrong. Perhaps VarmintGuy will read this post as well and just to help him along a bit, the formula for wind doping is fast and simple: RxV/1000=moa W adj. To answer this, one does not need to call people names, jump up and down, shout, repeat oneself, jump to conclusions, etc. just cypher in about two seconds and bingo, you are on!! Sure beats the spray and pray system all to hell. Trust me, if you only have one shot, not two or three, you will get real good at this game of estimating wind and elevation, breathing, trigger control and follow through. My farmer friends do indeed welcome me to come to their place to shoot varmints or whatever and usually go with me to enjoy the day of shooting. God Bless, God Speed and Good Luck

Jay Johnson, nope no chip on my shoulder, just pointing out that someone making claims why a certain cartridge, 204 Ruger, either is dominant or going to be dominant in the varmint shooting world and yet he has not a clue as to what is required to obtain the potential of that cartridge???? When challenged to answer the most basic of questions on shooting, he sidesteps the question as being some self made test. Proof positive that he does not know whereof he speaks. It is not that hard to answer, look up, determine, etc. but that does require some discipline, training, effort, and not just idle talk. Going into a rampage and ranting and raving about how stupid the other guy is does not really do him much favor. Does provide evidence that he does not know what he is talking about. Speech professor in University warned us about our public utterances and the reason is that someone may question you and ask you to verify your remarks with facts. Good advise for all concerned.

"driver: Are you even aware that you are posting on the "Varmint Hunting Forum"?

Man , driver , I am beginning to wonder about that one myself .

I am quite sure I would be like a new-born babe at one of your 600 to 1000 yard matches , but what does that have to with hitting a flighty critter at maybe 300 to 400 ? I do have some news for you , folks have been hitting at 400 yards without clicking come-ups for many many years , probably since before dan boone got his first flintlock . Another news flash , the use of a tight sling has been heard of outside your little circle of experts , even though we in this area would have half a days hard drive to get even close to something resembling a 1000 yard match .

Compare apples to apples and maybe we will begin to get somewhere , I have to wonder if you have ever seen one common predator outside of a zoo?

Man , I would love to get you in a hot p dog town , it would be hilarious to watch you click yourself dizzy .

Since you are a great one for questions , answer us this one , for a P dog at say 500 yards , how close would you have to know the range to make the correct amount of come up clicks for a center hit on the little bugger(first shot) with your favorite rainbow like 223 match load ? Since you also claim not to need a rangefinder , tell us how you *know* that little rodent is exactly 500 yards ?

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGirl:
Your self professed "champion at everything" attitude is not only unsportsmanlike its showing you for what you are - a "know it all" with an unpleasant attitude and a huge chip on your shoulder!

VGirl's statement here is very self-illuminating, even Freudian.

quote:

I am still laughing at you here

And.... any idea how many are laughing at you, VG?

40 posts in 3 years...

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Jay Johnson, nope no chip on my shoulder, just pointing out that someone making claims why a certain cartridge, 204 Ruger, either is dominant or going to be dominant in the varmint shooting world and yet he has not a clue as to what is required to obtain the potential of that cartridge???? When challenged to answer the most basic of questions on shooting, he sidesteps the question as being some self made test. Proof positive that he does not know whereof he speaks. It is not that hard to answer, look up, determine, etc. but that does require some discipline, training, effort, and not just idle talk. Going into a rampage and ranting and raving about how stupid the other guy is does not really do him much favor. Does provide evidence that he does not know what he is talking about. Speech professor in University warned us about our public utterances and the reason is that someone may question you and ask you to verify your remarks with facts. Good advise for all concerned.

Experience is one element that is hard to prove.

Why don't you venture out to Montana and give ol' VarmintGuy a lesson in varmint shooting.

Oh, and bring your favorite .223.

Well now, let's see about your question now. I will answer it. You are saying the range is 500 yards, and you want to know how close and the amount of come ups to make a hit on that target. If it were a std. target the x ring would be some 5" in diameter. If I had a 100 yard zero on the gun, say it is the 223, the come ups for that range would be right at 13 MOA. In case you do not understand, with your rifle sighted in at 100 yards, and your sights adjusted to hit some 13 inches high at 100 would put you on at 500 yards. A 22-250 would be a tad less, but not that much. Probably would use 1 moa less. Depends on whether using 69 or 75, 77 or 80gr. bullet. All work well in either cartridge, but the 69 is on the light side for ranges 500 and beyond. 80 gr Sierra MK's in the 223 or 22-250 work extremely well.
I never said that I did not use a range finder, but did say that knowledge of the trajectory of the bullet(come ups) with the use of a range finder, mil dots, etc. is a must if you are going to make a hit at a given distance. Actually the flight of the 223 is not a rainbow as much as you would think. Add another 3 minutes of elevation to the above and you are on at 600. If your gun will deliver 1 moa accuracy, 5" at 500 yards, 6" at 600 yards, etc. you will get a hit, PROVIDING, the wind is not acting up and don't even count on that happening.
Want to know about the wind as well?? Not a problem. My question early on was the most basic one by the fact that I gave a full wind example, 3-9 or 9-3 on the clock face. Those directions are known as full value. Easiest to estimate. I used 400 yards but we will use the 500 yard mark for shits and grins since you brought it up. Range, 500 yards,X Wind speed 10 mph=5000/1000=5moa wind adjustment. Formula: RXW(velocity) divided by 1000 = Wind adjustment in MOA

Tricky part is not the velocity, but direction. Velocity is fairly easy to estimate and yes, you can use a windmeter if you do not know how to estimate the wind. It is most unlikely that anyone can absolutely say that the wind is coming from a specific direction. You can get close, but this ain't hand grenades! Each clock face has a different factor to divide with and naturally you do not have time nor inclination to remember all those formulas. Answer, divide the result by half. In the example above use 2.5 minutes and you can either do that with the knobs or favor the cross hairs to give the same adjustment. If you are shooting PD's, ground hogs, etc. you probably well know it's dimensions, how tall, width, etc. and easy to est. hold accordingly. In any case, once you get beyond the point blank zero of the rifle, cartridge, you have to know what you are doing and use come ups and wind reading methods to accomplish the shot. You betcha we are on the Varmint Forum and that is the very best place to discuss correct and proven shooting techniques for most likely the type of hunting that requires knowledge and skill for long range shooting. The 204 Ruger is hardly capable of those long range shooting situations which is the root of all this discussion. It is at best a medium range cartridge and will indeed satisfy most varmint hunters, but not those used to shooting the 220 Swift or the 22-250 and yes the 223. Now, answered the question and then some, but would encourage you to try it the next time you are out there and the wind blowing. Suggest you use a spotting scope to aid in wind reading. By the way, mirage needs to be taken into consideration as well for it wil skew your vision into thinking the target is more to one side or the other. Illusion is the word. In the event I have not answered your question, pls advise and will make every effort to do so. I guess that only works one way, huh????

On second thought, just shitt'n you, don't really have any more time to waste with you. Get back in touch with me when you learn to shoot and have some level of classification and until then, suggest you do attend a long range rifle match and learn all you can. Take a chance, learn something!!

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging - Will Rogers

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
On second thought, just shitt'n you, don't really have any more time to waste with you. Get back in touch with me when you learn to shoot and have some level of classification and until then, suggest you do attend a long range rifle match and learn all you can. Take a chance, learn something!!

Driver, try this forum:

Bench Rest & STATIONARY Target Shooting

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
I do not own a 204, might in the future, have owned and shot the 22/250 a bunch in hunting and long range matches, 8 twist-80SMK's, and superb round, but all around, that 223 works great from 100 to 600 yards plus with no problem at all and be it a sporting rifle, AR15, or long range prone match rifle, I will stick with the 223 and watch from afar as to just how the 204 fares. I wish it well.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Now, I do not recall once mentioning an AR15 or any other semi auto and the reason I do not recall is that I did not mention it. (You are doing what is known as jumping to conclusions without any factual basis. You seem to have a habit of that sort.)

Hmmmmm?

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
I am somewhat taken back by your statement that the rounds being used for match shooting would not be safe for that is the ultimate and absolute rule by all matches, safety. Sierra HP BT MK's whether 22 or 30 caliber, have a very thin jacket, hollow point, desinegrate instantly and certainly pose no safety issues whatsoever regarding ricochets. Nope, your safety argument does not stand up to the facts and you probably would "run the guy off..." since you did not know the facts.

From Sierra’s website:

quote:

The MatchKing bullets are designed for pinpoint accuracy; with no consideration given to what might happen after impact. If the bullet has arrived on target accurately, its job is done at that point. Hunting bullets must perform in a certain manner after impact. Penetrating ability, expansion characteristics, and even profile must be considered when designing a hunting bullet.
Use MatchKings for matches, and game bullets for hunting.

Hmmmmm?

i'd like to see them both start about 3000m apart at either end of a valley, and the one to walk out can be deemed the winner!

Oppinions are like assholes!

personally i dont mind knocking over rabbits with a .300win mag, my trg 42 doesnt mind whether it's 20 or 1400m away, it's not "professional" or skin friendly, but it works.

isnt this sposed to be an educational forum where oppinions and experiences can be discussed?

everyone should chill out!

Varmintdude, you like the 204, driver you may not, whoopdefucking doo!
you're both hanging on too tight!

the really ironic thing is this post called "sick of hearing about the 204" and that's all we've heard!

grow up kids!

well you're acting like them!

I'm going back to my chey tac......

peace

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
40 posts in 3 years...

holy crap flippy!

so you've had 685 posts in a year! wow....

that's a really useful item of information, you can read the bottom line of a post.
WELL DONE!!!

but now the big question, considering all your posts, when do you get time to shoot?

just remember these 2 things,
1. what is understood, neednt be discussed, and
2. empty vessels make the most noise.

peace

i like this thread!

I couldn't wade through all of the above but I thought I'd throw in my opinion from over here in Australia.

On my third 22-250 (Ruger heavy barrrel) and I have shot a lot of roos with it. When I do my bit, I know I have a dead roo out to 350 yards. And that is a long shot for me (and my son who is a far better shot than me).

I bought one of the first 204's to come into Aus. Ruger standard. I [ersonally think both are supremely accurate rounds. I can shoot under an inch with both.

I have a Model 70 in .222 that is as accurate, if not a bit more.

I use a lot of other fox hunters rifles. I have on permanent loan a Ruger single shot .220 that will group under an 1"

The .22-250 is far more forgiving on big roos that the .204. Hit a roo in the right area with a .204 32 to 40 gn round and he is dead.

But the .22-250 is more forgiving about where you hit. As I said, I haven't read all of the above.

I honestly think both are so close as far as accuracy goes, it is too hard to call.

We filled a 200 roo permit one night with the .22-250. Another night, we shot the same number in roughly the same conditions with the .204. I prefer the 250 but I like the fact that you can see where the bullet lands with the 204.

I do not like the 50 gn Bergers in 20 calibre as my Ruger cannot stabilize them.

Nothing that any of you didn't know.

R.Walter: Freudian or not DO YOU have any experience with the wonderful new 204 Ruger cartridge?
No one on this forum is interested in your "psychic" (via the internet already!) assessment of anyone!
Jboks posting had to do with his hearing about the 204 Ruger (mostly good reports I assume as he broke down and bought one!) and he made some observations regarding it!
If you have contrary contentions to anything I (or anyone else) posted I challenge you (like I did so successfully with a couple other 204 Ruger naysayers on this thread!) to post your contradictory facts and figures and first hand experiences!
Somehow I think I will be successful challenging and trumping you as well there oh psychic 204 naysayer!
He-he!

driver: Again your swollen mellon (via your enormous ego and perhaps made worse by the huge chip on your shoulder falling on your punkin head) has made assumptions and statements that are not just wrong but self defeating!
I have used my various 204's to make some splendidly long shots at all manner of Varmints!
I again contend (and you have again failed to show anyone how the 204 Ruger cannot be successfully used for) 99% of Varminting useages!
And I contend it WILL do an excellent job at that!
I know, I have actually done it driver - whereas YOU have NOT!
By the way while I was snoozing through your diatribe regarding your computations on MOA and adjustments and on and on - the Coyote RAN OFF!
Varminting is not 600 yard prone shooting!
And if you are still contending that 80 grain Sierra MatchKings are safe bullets to use for Varminting then I have a duty to all safety minded Varminters to AGAIN point out you are doing something that is VERY UNSAFE!
You are doing something that even the manufacturer of the bullet suggests YOU NOT DO!
Why does your swollen egotistical head keep you on this unsafe path?
Are you that bullheaded and lazy and unthinking and so intent on "pushing things" safety wise that you HAVE to keep using these unsafe bullets while Varminting?
Like I previously posted, all the Varmints do not have a 20' high berm behind them to stop your pass throughs and ricochets!
You are doing something very unsafe and I am telling you STOP IT before some innocent is hurt!
Disregard this advice at your own peril there driver!
Your error prone decision making regarding your choices and opinions is one thing but you deciding to keep using dangerous ricochet prone bullets is simply stupid beyond description!
Deflate you ego "a tad" and get busy finding an accurate and frangible bullet for your Varminting needs.
You are not being funny here driver, you are being unsafe with a firearm - that is inexcusable!
You may think you have answered the question regarding how well the 204 Ruger cartridge performs on Varmints there driver but you have not! The contentions you burp up are not only wrong they are wrong and based on a bias that is mean spirited and unsporting!
Why would someone like yourself who has NO firsthand experience with a particular cartridge INTENTIONALLY make false statements about it?
Puzzling.
And by false statements I am referring to your contention that the 204 Ruger cannot be used for long range Varminting!
I know better - I HAVE DONE IT!
And until you come up with some serious proof to the contrary I will keep doing so!
Again I strongly urge you to go back and read some of Mr. groundhog devastations postings regarding the 204 Ruger!
You might even inquire of him about the velocities he has been getting with his Rifle!
More velocity equals flatter trajectory and less time of flight for ones projectiles!
These are good things for Varmint Hunters. VERY GOOD things!
You might even ask Mr. groundhog devastation about the wonderful group he shot at 500 yards with his 204 Ruger Varmint Rifle!
Your contention denouncing the 204 Ruger for long range Varminting is as wrong (stupid!) as your contention that more scope power is bad for Varminting! I have previously trounced you with first hand experiences in this regard so I will not do so again - at this time!
Again man I have to point out how ridiculous you sound!
ALL of the Varmint Hunters I know and have seen Varminting in the field use scopes of rather high magnifications whenever appropriate!
Indeed I have two Varmint Rifles that have straight 36 power Leupold scopes on them! They work fine for their intended uses - long range Rock Chuckin and Prairie Doggin!
I have two Varmint Rifles with straight 24 power Leupolds on them - same objective - same good results!
I do prefer the high power variables for most of my Varmint Rifles and several (including one of my 204's!) have the wonderful Leupold 8.5x25 variables on them - working just fine here driver! I have two Sightron 6x24 variables on my Varminters (including on one of my 204's!) again great performance afield and at the range!
My favorite all around Varminting scopes are the Leupold (and of recent the Nikon) 6.5x20 variables (another of my 204's has one of these on it) and these latter scopes can do it all!
I have used them for walking Varminting situations, long range shooting, night calling, Colony Varmint shooting literally every type of Varminting one can do! My point is you are as wrong about the 204 Ruger and "long range" Varminting as you are about scope power!
Those are your problems and you will suffer the consequences of your closed mindedness and poor decision making.
So be that!
But I am not going to let you get away with half assed and untrue attempts at besmirching a fine - NO an excellent Varmint cartridge, the 204 Ruger!
Be warned again, driver, your unsafe is OK attitude and numerous poor decisions, flawed decision making process's, chip on your shoulder attitude, telling of untruths and numerous errors in your postings is simply not going to fly - without me correcting you!
Again I make the public statement based on my extensive first hand experiences and based on ballistic tables (both for trajectory and wind bucking ability) the 204 Ruger is a splendid cartridge fully capable of doing 99% of all Varminting that is being done today!
I find it lacking in no regard what so ever!
Its amazingly accurate, amazingly lethal, flies amazingly flat, has an amazingly low amount of recoil, it flies amazingly straight through the wind, heats barrels slowly and the projectiles made for this cartridge are very frangible (safe to use in Varmint Hunting situations)!
Yeah its an AMAZING Varminting cartridge.
Yeah, you got a tough job to even try to do if you wish to besmirch the 204 Ruger, there driver! That job is beyond your limited talents so I suggest you do what you inferred in your latest posting - slink off and stew!
Or, do what a man would do - go get some trigger time at the range and in the field with a 204 Ruger BEFORE you even try to denounce it!
And this there driver, by you being self-defeating I mean you are only causing yourself misery by spouting your unfounded biases and denying yourself the use of the wonderful new 204 Ruger cartridge!
Oh thats right I mentioned the "age" of the 204 Ruger again! You still have not mentioned the EXACT age at which it (or any cartridge) has to attain before it can be used successfully in the Varmint fields!
Of course by answering your own LUDICROUS contention in this regard you would be further showing everyone just how stupid you and your views are!
Sometimes, there driver, new things ARE actually better than older things! The 204 Ruger is exhibit number one in proving you "incorrect" AGAIN here driver!
By the way your last posting was not QUITE as funny as previous ones - could you work on that as well?

River Rat: Thank you for your vote of confidence regarding my Varminting. Thank you sincerely! I would most probably pass on an outing with driver as his poor decision making and tendency to be unsafe really turns me off!
I have Hunted with many hundreds of different shooters but I have NEVER knowingly Hunted with an unsafe shooter and Rifle handler!
Also this - good for you on the great rapport with the farmers down your way!
I have been offered the use of spare bedrooms, showers, sharing meals, Hunting intel and many other friendly gestures by ranchers and farmers but not yet have I been offered loading components! Good for you!
Keep after them - and do it safely like I am sure you try to do!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy, like I mentioned to someone else, go learn to shoot and then grow up a bit more and perhaps you can join the adults conversation.
Lots of huff'n and puff'n, name calling, but like I said earlier, you don't have a clue as to what you are doing and it is amazing that you can not answer very junior level questions on shooting. Time is a valuable asset and don't really have anymore to waste with you and it is a waste.
I am amazed at the quantity of words you can use and say nothing. Is that a learned trait or were you born with this "gift?" Now I am sure we will all hear another sermon of how stupid, etc. I might be for challenging your comments. Believe you should change your handle to "spray and pray" for it would be more to your style of not only shooting, but writing. I can't think of a proper name for your thought process, but sure I will come up with one and you will be the first to know. God Bless, God Speed, and Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by greggus:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
40 posts in 3 years...

holy crap flippy!

so you've had 685 posts in a year! wow....

that's a really useful item of information, you can read the bottom line of a post.
WELL DONE!!!

but now the big question, considering all your posts, when do you get time to shoot?

just remember these 2 things,
1. what is understood, neednt be discussed, and
2. empty vessels make the most noise.

peace

i like this thread!

50 posts in 2 years... BFD

Most of my post were at work. I got paid to do this!
I had a job where several hours a day you just waited for the stuff to hit the fan...

I shoot more than 90% of the people I know, being as I live 4 minutes from the range and 5 minutes from hunting opportunities.

It's nice to know you can read and that you understand. But WTFC?

peace, out.

quote:

Originally posted by greggus:
Oppinions are like assholes!
isnt this sposed to be an educational forum where oppinions and experiences can be discussed?

Is that your "oppinion?"

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by greggus:
Oppinions are like assholes!
isnt this sposed to be an educational forum where oppinions and experiences can be discussed?

Is that your "oppinion?"

sorry, im used to double tapping. so sometimes my fingers stutter. my bad.
and isnt it how most americans spell, i mean you cant spell colour, or favour or centre.

i'm off to drive the Waaah!mbulance!

quote:

i mean you cant spell colour, or favour or centre.

Sure we can, they are spelled color, favor, and center. Look it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Neverflinch:

quote:

i mean you cant spell colour, or favour or centre.

Sure we can, they are spelled color, favor, and center. Look it up.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
...Believe you should change your handle to "spray and pray" for it would be more to your style of not only shooting, but writing...

This guy has obviously NEVER shot at a moving target or a target of unknown range in his life.

Either that or he is just 6's and 7's...
(in USA lingo: friggin nuts)

I bought a 204, and it is very similar in performance to my 223AI. I like them both. The 223 can shoot heavier bullets, but i didn't buy my 204 to shoot heavy bullets.

I initially put a 2-10 power on it, but the gun deserved more. I bought a 4.5-14 Pentax that will be riding on it once my HS stock gets here.

quote:

Originally posted by greggus:
...I'm going back to my chey tac......

peace

Greggus, if you exclude ALL of your posts that contain the words Chey Tac, 408, 400 bore, etc., etc. that leaves you with about 10 posts.

Kind of reminds me of the guy who just bought a Hummer. He has to "fit" it into EVERY conversation so everybody knows he owns one.

It seems as though you are trying desperately to make up for some shortcoming, or merely trying (and failing) to impress us.

Which is it?

driver: You have me at a full roar laugh again!
Thanks for that - but thats all!
I have used my words to blow EVERY idiotic thing you have burped up clean out of the water!
You may call that nothing! I call it taking the time to correct you and make sure your unfounded, unsafe, biased, baseless drivel is not left to stand!
You have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what the wonderful 204 Ruger cartridge is capable of doing!
Yet you insist on trying to besmirch it!
I again ask WHY?
Among all of the challenges I have hammered you with and embarrassed you with, this one question puzzles me even more than your insane attitude toward safety - I ask again, at what age do you contend a particular cartridge is "old enough" to accompany the modern day Varminter afield???
Again as I laugh at you and your absurdities I just have to thank you for the comedy!
And again - thats all.
The rest of your blather is worth even less than all the "1's" and "0's" it took to post them on this forum.
There is no doubt in my mind I have shot more Varmints than you ever will. No doubt that I have spent more time afield with my Rifles than you ever will!
That does not automatically make you incorrect in your various ridiculous contentions and decisons - you have proven that with the essence of your postings!
Regardless of what marksmanship classification you may have achieved from your shooting mat there with your 80 grain Sierra MatchKings you have a horrible record of mistakes, errors, baseless contentions and unsafe actions!
Nothing to be proud of there driver!
Again just the rememberance of your laughably idiotic comments in these various regards causes me to laugh out loud AND to smirk at you!
I've grown up there driver - quite successfully and happily! I suggest you horn in your overbearing ego and get that huge chip off of your shoulder and go out and actually get some trigger time with a 204 Ruger!
If you are 1/20th the Rifleman you claim to be YOU will realize for yourself what a wonderful Varminting cartridge it is!
By the way did you happen to go back and read Mr. Groundhog devastations posting?
Thought so.
And again, I will chastise you publicly, for using 80 gr. Sierra MatchKings from your 223 in the Varmint fields!
That is not only unsafe and lazy its... well more of your stupid behavior and decison making being "self-evident".
Everyone, redouble your efforts to be safe while Varminting!
We all don't have 20' high berms behind the targets WE shoot at.
Long live the wonderful new (young - LOL!) 204 Ruger cartridge!
driver I offer this link to a magazine article written about the 204 Ruger and its performance. The article I want you to NOTE was written in EARLY 2,004!
Link below:

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger204.htm

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy, just as predicted my myself and numerous e mails about you, you go on and on and it is the same old stuff, ranting and raving and still nothing factual. Must make you feel like alpha dog to be able to bark the loudest.
As you say, just hold into the wind, that should get you a solid hit someday, yes, even you. Yes indeed, ol' spray and pray system of varmint hunting!!
Thousands are still waiting on your answers to those simple, basic questions posed by me and others??????
In closing, if you spent just a fraction of the time you spend on your hunting back pack, you possibly could learn to shoot in a precise manner, but I realize that would lessen the time you have to describe the thread count of the pack material or the tensile strength of the straps themselves, etc., etc. All you ever wanted to know about a pack in 400 pages !!!!! Aside from my reference to you and a hoop, your writings bring to mind the old addage that "you can't win a pissing contest with a skunk..." so I concede, you win hands down, no contest!!

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by greggus:
...I'm going back to my chey tac......

peace

Greggus, if you exclude ALL of your posts that contain the words Chey Tac, 408, 400 bore, etc., etc. that leaves you with about 10 posts.

Kind of reminds me of the guy who just bought a Hummer. He has to "fit" it into EVERY conversation so everybody knows he owns one.

It seems as though you are trying desperately to make up for some shortcoming, or merely trying (and failing) to impress us.

Which is it?

Sorry Princess, didnt mean to offend.

Here in Australia, we still speak English, like they do in England (funnily enough), but I suppose since the revolution, it's been common place to make everything less like the "motherland"! Like the old addage of "know the enemy before you kill it" works for the american language.

Yes, you have done some research! they do mostly pertain to the 408 chey tac cartridge, which is quite difficult to obtain information on. Most of the info I find that is useful is from long range forums.
Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that a forum called "accurate reloading" may just include the odd morsel of information from experienced "shooters" about reloading information.Pardon my stupidity for thinking this. Had I known that this was a site for people who spend their working life surfing gun sites, who entered into pissing competitions before the drop of a hat I'd probably have requested reloading info from a stamplickers site. BTW, loading skeets at a gun club doesnt make you a good shooter, neither does living across the road from a range, experience cannot be obtained through osmosis.

Flippy, I'm sorry you feel you must impress people, do you really feel this inadequate?
If your self esteem is that low, may be it's good that you spend all your time on the net rather than learning to shoot, or are you a postal worker in your spare time? Maybe you are in prison! If you really shoot more than 90% of the people you know, i'm glad i dont know you! Either that or you dont know many people...

Again, Flippy, i'm not trying to have an argument, I was trying to lighten the mood.

Like my Mum said once; "never argue with an idiot, people will get confused which is which"

Hey VarmintGuy, forgot that you said something about me "claiming" to have certain skills in rifleshooting, well, actually I do not have to claim for I actually do have documentation to prove it. I don't think I ever did see your response to what your long range classification is??? Can't recall for sure if I asked you, but do you have a classification for long range?? Not a hard question, just yes or no will do nicely. Think you said some million words ago about a skill level with a pistol, Glock?? Now that is impressive for varmint hunting.
Hell, with an attitude change, willingness to learn, you might make it up to the "mu" class in the shooting world. Do you have any idea what MU stands for in the world of trained, skilled, dedicated shooters,military and civilian, around this planet?? I thought not.
Another box top and the right answer will get you another prize!! Do you want to go for the title??
In the event you were to send in the box tops of your 204 ammo, and CORRECT answers to these "junior level" questions, there is a slight chance that you could be elevated someday to the MU level. Just think of all the tales you could spin and no longer would your fellow shooters think of you as just some wordy, and I do mean wordy, "hold into the wind..." shooter, but someone who can actually shoot, even the 204!! Don't miss out on this opportunity for it may not pass your way again.

quote:

Originally posted by jbok:
I thought the 204 was the next fad caliber. Everone touting about how wonderful, how fast, how deadly. I have a few varmint rifles in 223 and 22-250 and they work great for coyotes and I had a personal rule of no new calibers. I recently had a chance to purchase a CZ 204 worth the money and saw 3 coyotes meet there end last week. I have joined the converted. 204 strong points: No kick, you get to watch the critter take the hit, you just put it on him out to 300, and very accurate. 204 bad point: May not be a fur gun. One of those coyotes was shot in the chest at 40 yards facing me and it dumped 5 lbs. of guts on the ground. I may need another 204. My ole huntin buddy bought his first Remington 204 the same day and has killed 11 coyotes and 2 bobcats and they all just laid down and give up. Strictly, my 2 cents. jb

Seems to me this was a discussion about Jbok and his new experience with the great 204.

If I wanted to read about BR, I would go to the benchrest forum.

This is a varmint hunting forum after all!!!


I am not a benchrest shooter. Although I have a bench to sight my weepons in with. I don't shoot paper targets for anything except preparing to go blast the hell outta vermin. Most Varmit hunters, and I do say most not all, prefer to shoot vermin over paper.

If they were into shooting paper, they would be benchrest shooters and respectivly keep there post on the bechrest forum.


So lets get this back to the point of the thread and away from egos...


The 204 is a great round...try it you might like it.

driver: You keep showing yoour ass and I keep relishing it!
Might I add this question to the list of questions you won't answer?
What classification does one need to be able to be proficient at and thoroughly enjoy Varmint Hunting?
AGAIN I post - do you have ANY idea how stupid you sound?
You still have not provided any answer to or defense of your ludicrous contention that a particular cartridge needs to be a certain number of years of age before it can be "certified" by YOU to be a good performer on Varmints!
If I were you I wouldn't answer or reply to that disturbingly unsound and baseless bit of conjecture! Because if you even try I will blow you out of the water - with GUSTO!
He-he!
Again that type lunacy shows you for what you are there driver! You are a poor decision maker with an unwavering penchant for unsafe shooting, decisions based on bias and not actual real life range and field use, along with your holier than everyone else condescending attitude - you just make a mess of yourself there driver on your own!
He-he.
Not much of a man there now are you driver?
I have referred you to other sources regarding the performance, accuracy and fun factor of the 204 Ruger and you ignore them! You have no experience with it yourself and you refuse to take anyone else's word for the 204's worthiness??? And you even refuse to accept real live ballistic and trajectory tables so you tell us there driver - what in the world would it take for you ADMIT your numerous errors, unsafe shooting practices and poor decisions regarding shooting the 204 Ruger at Varmints?
You ther driver are dangerous, besides being stupid and egotistical!
And I simply RELISH pointing that out every opportunity you provide for me!
Come on driver you have not even attempted to defend your ridiculous contention that you can't use lots of scope power on ones 204 Ruger Rifle! Oohhh... thats right you have never owned or even shot a 204 Ruger Rifle - and again - I relish pointing that out!
LOL!
I could care less driver what class you claim to have obtained from your mat - this is the Varmint Hunting forum and you have proven you are grossly inexperienced in that discipline!
I am anxiously awaiting (and I am certain you can't and won't answer!) which shooting classification in what disciplines need be obtained by Varmint Hunters to pass your muster! As if anyone cared! LOL!
Show me and my contentions wrong with even ONE trajectory or ballistic table there driver! I DARE YOU!
Thanks for bringing the comedic factor of your latest posts up a notch there driver! At least you are making us laugh again!
He-he!
Long live the wonderful new young Varminting cartridge - the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy (also known as "driver Basher"!)

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
VarmintGuy, just as predicted my myself and numerous e mails about you,

Hey Varmintguy,

You have them so worked up they are collaborating on their responses via numerous e-mail.


That is too damn funny.

Oneshot_one kill: As if I could care one whit about drivers buddies sending E-mails about me! I actually did laugh when I read that lame assed attempt by driver to try to INTIMIDATE me!
I laugh again.
Yes, he is good for a laugh and nothing more!
What just flabbergasts me is that this raving lunatic still keeps giving me more and more ammunition to tear him apart with. AND the poor fool has never owned or fired a 204 Ruger Rifle!
He can't deny any of the 204 Ruger cartridges amazing attributes and yet he flounders on!
Sheesh!
And on top of that he wants all Varmint Hunters to have a particular classification of some Rifle discipline (that he won't even specify for us!) to be able to enjoy our chosen sport!
I shake my head in bewilderment at his unbridled idiocy!
And yet I find it funny and almost addictive pointing out his shortcomings!
Thats all well and good and humorous and like that but his insistance on shooting unsafe bullets in the field when much safer and much more appropriate bullets are easily available is sobering in its stupidity as to the dangers he is exposing others to!
I guess the lesson to be learned from driver is there is a certain small percentage of the population who are so stupid, so egotistical, so biased, so chip on their shoulder motivated that they turn to being "contrary" just for contraries sake!
The lack of concern about the safety of others IS inexcusable and removes the immature Mr. driver from the ranks of Sportsmen all by itself.
To bad that.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I've been following all the hype about the .204 the last few years also jbok. Like you...I'm givin in. I can't stand it! I don't know why I even try to be practical. I NEED ONE! Everything I've read about this cal is good stuff. (Eccept from the guys that want to keep shooting their .223's, and I've been using that excuse long enough) I was going to get one when they first came out, and changed my mind at the last minuite.
I'm not even sure which one I am going to get. I am partial to remingtons...but I'll take what I can find. A CZ with nice wood would work fine. I have a American in .17 hmr. Nice gun! Don't like the price of those little clips though. I guess you don't really need your pocket full of um loaded and ready...

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Here in Australia, we still speak English, like they do in England (funnily enough), but I suppose since the revolution, it's been common place to make everything less like the "motherland"! Like the old addage of "know the enemy before you kill it" works for the american language.

Like most Australians have an affinity for England. Next you are going to say something kind about “Kiwi’s.â€
BS meter is pegged on that one…

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Yes, you have done some research! they do mostly pertain to the 408 chey tac cartridge, which is quite difficult to obtain information on. Most of the info I find that is useful is from long range forums.
Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that a forum called "accurate reloading" may just include the odd morsel of information from experienced "shooters" about reloading information.
Pardon my stupidity for thinking this. Had I known that this was a site for people who spend their working life surfing gun sites, who entered into pissing competitions before the drop of a hat I'd probably have requested reloading info from a stamplickers site.

Driver, you can lick whatever you like...
The only person I see engaging in a pissing competition is you Mr. “I shoot 1000 yards there fore I know everything about varmint hunting and shooting in general and every cartridge that could possibly exist, even those I have never used.â€

BS meter is pegged on that one…

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
BTW, loading skeets at a gun club doesnt make you a good shooter, neither does living across the road from a range, experience cannot be obtained through osmosis.

If experience cannot be obtained through osmosis, how do you know so much about varmint hunting and the .204 Ruger cartridge?

BS meter again is pegged…

I’m a member of “the gun club across the road.†I shoot there regularly.
I have never loaded “skeets†there, although I do have access to the shotgun facility.

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Flippy, I'm sorry you feel you must impress people, do you really feel this inadequate?

I’m not the one that keeps dropping “chey tac†and “1000 yard shooting†as if to impress anyone.
Again, that would be you…

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
If you really shoot more than 90% of the people you know, i'm glad i dont know you! Either that or you dont know many people...

I did say 90%, right? The other 10% shoot every day or almost every day. A lot of them are retired or semi-retired. I work for a living (and not at the USPS). I know lots of people (most of them shoot) and the feeling is mutual.

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Again, Flippy, i'm not trying to have an argument, I was trying to lighten the mood.
Like my Mum said once; "never argue with an idiot, people will get confused which is which"

Sure sounds like you’re attempting to have an argument.
Or more like a half-assed attempt at one.

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Here in Australia…
…Maybe you are in prison!

Is that the same Australia that was a former penal colony for Britain?



Driver, again I suggest you try this forum:

Bench Rest & STATIONARY Target Shooting

quote:

Driver, you can lick whatever you like...
The only person I see engaging in a pissing competition is you Mr. “I shoot 1000 yards there fore I know everything about varmint hunting and shooting in general and every cartridge that could possibly exist, even those I have never used.â€.

When did I even suggest that?
I did state I do shoot long ranges, and I will knock over the opportune ferral, but at which point did you see me state that any calibre is better than another? or that I am better or know more than anyone else? unlike some people, if I dont know about something I'll try to research it, may explain why I'm even at this topic...

quote:

Originally posted by Greggus:
Again, Flippy, i'm not trying to have an argument, I was trying to lighten the mood.
Like my Mum said once; "never argue with an idiot, people will get confused which is which"

quote:

Sure sounds like you’re attempting to have an argument.
Or more like a half-assed attempt at one.

I'm sure you're more qualified in half assed arguments than i am. See! I'll admit when someone is better than me!

quote:

…Maybe you are in prisonIs that the same Australia that was a former penal colony for Britain? !

At least i'm not denying my heriatage, which by the way were some of the first free settlers in the country, BTW, we got our independance without killing our own people or asking for the assistance of the French....

I'd be so proud of that!

Na, fuck it,

Flippy you're not worth my time,

To everyone else I appologise for any offence I may have caused, I admit, before this post I hadnt even heard of the 204, and from what this topic covered, not much has changed. Though some of the data given sounded impressive.

To those that enjoy this caliber I wish you a years supply of head shots, to those too ignorant to try something new, well, shit in your hands and clap!

good luck!

peace

Well, well, now we have Flippy,(who in the hell would name their kid Flippy????) into the arena and dare I ask if you can answer junior shooter questions?? Like the VarmintGuy all we ever see is a whole lot of nothing and ranting and raving, name calling, but not answers or evidence of shooting skills whatsoever, be it 204, 223, 22-250, etc. Do you have any recognized record of shooting skills, knowledge, training, etc. pertaining to rifle shooting?? I would think if either of you did you would simply state them and bingo! case closed. Talk is cheap and that is why you two seem to spend it so freely. Lots of it, but no value there I fear.

I notice you emphasize stationary targets, and I would assume that you are hinting that one skilled with rifle shooting, documented skill I might add, can not do so well with moving targets. Actually instructed on such shooting at stationary as well as moving targets for some years and again, it is not done by spray and pray methods but by proven techniques only known by those willing and able to take the time to study, practice and devote time to increase their skill level. I realize that such a program would seem totally foreign to you, and not much to your liking because just talking about shooting, varmints, game, etc, is not good enough and no one cares about the talk. Lots of "shooters" like you two standing around at the local gun store taking up space and time of the store owner. He knows you spend money on the "latest and greatest..." and tolerates you. Proof is in the results.
I would imagine you have seen these little dots in some scopes known as mil dots and they do have them on a horizonatal plane as well as a vertical plane. One can determine fairly close to distance w/ them and also can determine travel and required hold for that "moving" target. Oh yes, moving targets are studied to a great degree, and if you would like to improve your ability on such targets, would suggest you start looking up the answers to the basic questions posed in earlier posts. I know, that would be admitting defeat if you had to actually study a topic and produce correct answers. Life is difficult at times, but as always, got to come up with the answers. The world is waiting with great anticipation.

quote:

well, actually I do not have to claim for I actually do have documentation to prove it. I don't think I ever did see your response to what your long range classification is???

Sorry but I just had to respond to this. This is like a third grader who argues, "My Dad can beat up your Dad". Let me ask you a question driver, does someone have to have a certification to prove they can do something well? Do you need someone else to write on a piece of paper saying you are good at something so you feel better about yourself? Does that piece of paper somehow make you even more or less talented??? RIDICULOUS argument. By the way shooting and hitting objects by the "spray and pray" method as you like to call it takes much more skill than using a rangefinder and turning clicks on a scope. I hate to tell you this but looking through crosshairs and pulling a trigger properly doesn't take a whole lot of skill or talent. I would even go so far to say as anyone with a drivers license can probably be taught to do it.