Folks,

When this .243 arrives I would like to be able to see hits on targets so am wondering about adding a couple of mercury tubes or lead shot to the stock to acheive this.

The rifle is a vls .243 but I upgraded to the HS stock, so it does not have the fluted barrel....thus should weigh a little more than the fluted rifles.

Bullets used will be 70 gr Noslers pretty well as hard as I can drive them.

How much weight do I need to add if at all ??

i don't know about added mas s off hand but a good recoil reducer would do the trick. roger

Thanks for your help

PC ,
Have a look at longrangehunting.com
They all seem to be fitting muzzle brakes .Hard on the ears .
My Remington VSSF-P .22/250 was ported from the factory but couldn't notice any difference .

BC,

my .243 won't have the fluted barrel it's the laminate model in a HS stock, so there is a bit of weight there I reckon some lead shot epoxied int he butt might do the trick. Or a reducer but thats the dearer option.

I am not a fan of breaks due to the noise.

PC: Your best bet might be to get a suppressor fitted. (I assume that they are legal on your side of the Tasman?)

This might sound contradictory, but a well designed suppressor will, in addition to reducing noise considerably, provide a significant reduction in muzzle jump. I'm talking here of suppressors designed specifically for centrefire rifles, things which are generally about 40mm in diameter and 350mm long, with the front extending about 150mm past the muzzle. (not the little things intended for use on air rifles and 22 rimfires) They are great for varmint rifles which are going to be used for big bomb-ups on rabbits and such like - they spare your ears, and let you see the 'red mist' through your scope. (well they do with a 223 - might not be quite so effective with a 243, but must still help considerably)

The disadvantages of them, of course, are that they add quite a lot of weight to the front end of the rifle, and they sure don't look elegant. Whether or not you consider them acceptable depends on your order of priorities.

Red Rover there banned here mate !!

I reckon some lead shot and the fact the gun has the full prfile varmint barrel may give me what I want.

aha - another reson for a 204

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
aha - another reson for a 204

Oh no !! , I will have to buy a .204 as well........

It's difficult to add enough weight to a .243 to allow the shooter to see the bullet strike through the scope, at least if you're only adding it in the butt. The main issue is where the weight is added in relation to the center of gravity in the vertical plane. The line of the bore is somewhat higher than the gun's CG, thus you get muzzle rise upon firing. Anything you can do to raise the CG relative to the line of the bore is helpful. HOWEVER, if the added weight is forward of the fore-aft CG of the gun, then it helps even if it is below the vertical CG. SO: Adding a substantial weight to the forend is more effective in reducing muzzle jump.

Also, the lower the power of the scope (wider field of view), the easier to see the bullet impact.

A muzzle brake would help in theory, but who the devil wants to see a bullet impact that badly?

The only rifle that I can see the effect of a bullets hit is my new Kimber Montana 243. The reason has to be that the stock is so high. I believe the Kimbers are about an inch higher than other typical stocks. The rifle is very light with a 22" barrel.

What I see is the animal flipping over or dust from a miss.

The load is the 58 gr VMax starting at 3750. I know that I am giving up some long range ability with that bullet but I have other rifles for that. I am just using this one as it is and enjoying it.

PC,

Check out some of the blue Dot info I sent you on the 243 and also if I have not done so let me send you some on the SR 4759 loads I played with....

With some of the 55, 60, 65 grain bullets I was able to get some pretty strong velocities out of those powders.... Let powder was reducing recoil enough to see hits in the scope on some lower settings...

With SR 4759, I got 3800 plus velocity out of the 55 grainers and 60 grain Sierra HPs.

Just a thought!

cheers
seafire

PC: Pity suppressors are illegal over there. Stupid bloody politicians.

Stonecreek:

quote:

A muzzle brake would help in theory, but who the devil wants to see a bullet impact that badly?

Well, I like to, and not because of some ghoulish desire to see blood and guts flying. The principal 'varmint' on my list is rabbits, and they are often found in short to medium height grass, and amongst weeds and scrub of all shapes and sizes. I often take shots at them when they are in, or are right on the edge of, some ground cover. If I lose sight of it, due to the muzzle jump that occurs even with a 222 or 223, then look again and cannot see the bunny, I'm sometimes not sure whether I have hit it, or if it has ducked for cover.

In theory, the sound of a bullet strike, or the lack of it, should give the answer, but it doesn't always seem to work that way. I've seen plenty of rabbits go down dead with no sound of a bullet strike that I could hear. I have also seen them run away, obviously unharmed, after hearing a distinct 'thunk' - which I suppose must have just been the bullet hitting soft ground.

You're going to require quite a bit of weight. I have a Remington VLS in 6mm Rem. I can't come close to seeing my shots hit with it. Remington says this rifle weighs about 9.5 lbs. I figure closer to 12lbs. Certainly it's the heaviest Remington I've ever owned. You might do better with a muzzle brake. I'm not certain even that would do it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Thanks for the help Folks !!

With your scope on 10-12x you will see most- but a weight of about 16-18#s really helps.

Of course weight will help but a straight stock, low recoil, shorter barrel and high velocity matter too.

I have shot a heavy .219 with 50 gr bullets at 3600 for a long time and that rifle has quite a drop at the heel. I never saw a bullet hit out of that rifle nor do I have any particular aptitude for seeing bullets hit. A friend brought up the topic of seeing rifle bullets hit and he claims that he can see them hit from a pre 64 M70 in 270! He is a little larger than average but I think it's ones nervous system and maybe my habit to close my eyes as the final variable.

Savage99 is right on on the shape of the stock; as I referred to earlier, by raising the CG of the rifle you reduce muzzle jump and improve the ability to see through the scope upon firing. It's not the recoil that spoils the sight picture, it's the muzzle rise.

PC, I certainly understand wanting to see the bullet strike in order to call your shots. My point is that a muzzle brake is so detrimental in other ways that it's use is self-defeating. First, if you shoot from a prone position, the blast of dirt you stir up will obscure your target. Second, you damn well won't be able to hear the thud of a hit; hell, you won't be able to hear anything after using a muzzle brake. Third, muzzle brakes often affect accuracy, and usually not for the better. And fourth, if your stock drop and gun CG aren't in some way improved, the muzzle brake alone likely won't help that much.

If you really want to see a dramatic improvement, hang a heavy weight off of the front swivel stud (if so equipped). So placing a weight MAY alter your zero and affect your accuracy, but it will tell you what can be done. The most effective place to put the weight and still maintain accuracy would be attached to a special stud extending from the stock forearm, with the weight kept as close to the barrel as possible.

Placing weight at the toe of the stock would result in little benefit in reducing muzzle jump (the gun wants to rotate around the CG, so lowering the CG will offset the effect of the weight.) By the same token, simply placing weight in the center of the stock butt is still lowering the CG, thus you don't gain anything very fast that way.

Stone Creek there would be know way I would add a disgusting muzzle break to a .243.......I want to see the shots but I want my hearing as well

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
It's difficult to add enough weight to a .243 to allow the shooter to see the bullet strike through the scope, at least if you're only adding it in the butt.
...Adding a substantial weight to the forend is more effective in reducing muzzle jump.

Also, the lower the power of the scope (wider field of view), the easier to see the bullet impact.

A muzzle brake would help in theory, but who the devil wants to see a bullet impact that badly?

If the gun doesn’t jump much, scope power should not make a whole lot of difference within reason. You should still be able to see bullet impact. Also most muzzle brakes are too loud, kick up too much dirt and stuff if you are shooting prone.
Especially for the poor bastard NEXT to you.

I have a 6mm Remington varminter (built on an '03-A3) with a 6-24X50 Redfield and I have no trouble seeing bullet impact. I can shoot it off bags on the bench with no clamping and NO backstop! It only jumps STRAIGHT back about 1 inch (with 83g bullets). There is a slight downside, however. The gun and scope weigh about 11 pounds. 26" heavy barrel. Not fun to pack around.

I would try for a happy medium between weight portability.
Keep adding weight until it works for you. The heavy barrel will help.