what velocity will shoot flat till a hundred yards with a 40 or 50 grain slug ? Looking the least amount of noise! would like it to be 22 mag or lower in noise level. I have shot 2650 fps with blue dot with a 50 grain bullet but its a tad louder than a 22 mag

Have you thought about cast bullets?

you ought to find something here...

remember to work up, and I only state that these loads were safe in my rifles..

charge a case and seat a bullet before going unto the next round, to avoid potential of a double charge...

consult with Hot Core on his opinions of these to make up your own mind if you desire to use this information at your own risk..

Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps

15 grs: NO Reading, Too hot, Extractor Marks, Scrapped Case
16 grs: NO Reading, Too Hot Blew Primer


Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps



Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Author’s Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicappiing velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes’s X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.

Nice test and report,John. The data and observations were nicely done. How to safely use the information is up to the individual.
You and I will never agree on 22 bullet ,tree penetration equating to that bullets adequacy as a deer slayer. Other than the conclusions, IMHO, it was a good presentation. roger

You da man seafire2

Great information. Will try the 40gr & 50gr loads for accuracy in my Howa.

Were these avg. velocities?
Taken from what sample size? If the sample size were one, for example I could better understand some of the irregularities in the numbers. No foul intended. roger

In my Remmy PSS, 13.5gr of Bluedot and 52gr A-Max bullets work VERY well.

How does a standard bullet expand at such low velocities? I could see a hornet bullet, or possibly an spsx, but I would want to test the others.

Thanks for the extensive work. It's hard work but someone has to do it right??????

quote:

How does a standard bullet expand at such low velocities? I could see a hornet bullet, or possibly an spsx, but I would want to test the others.

I've loaded Barnes 36 gr. Varmint Grenade in a .222 with Blue Dot for reduced loads, haven't chronographed them, but they definitely expand. And accuracy is good.

Speer has a few lead free .224 bullets coming out soon, their TNT Green bullets, 30 gr, 43 gr. and 55 gr. All highly frangible.

If they shoot well at reduced velocities they'll be damn good ground squirrel bullets.

seafire 2

great test results on different bullet weights..... just wondering if you or any other members have tried various bullet weights and reduced blue dot loadings with cast bullets ?

I've been thinking of trying a 45 grain cast bullet ( .223 ) for gophers and badgers here in Alberta, but have not as of yet as I'm having great results with 50 gr. winchester psp's..... but everyone knows that bullet prices are really climbing.
I successfully cast pistol bullets and have no problems with leading or accuracy.

what's the accuracy like in a 50 grain bullet travelling at 2200 fps?

Alberta S.:

These loads cycled down to 2200 fps have been just as accurate for me as there faster MV loads...

acutally I have a 223 dedicated to a walking varminter ( Rem ADL)... loaded with 55 grain bullets at about 2400 fps ( 11 grains Blue Dot or 14 grains SR 4759, with Small pistol primers)

this thing is laser like accurate, and 200 yds is what I am using it for...

those velocities also make your barrel life increase 300 to 500 %......or more...

Thanks for sharing the fruits of a lot of work. Does anyone have experience with testing the slowest velocity that will open a ballistic tip type bullet?

I need to do some varminting in a population center and would like to keep noise down to around .22 rimfire but would still like the bullet to open.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
consult with Hot Core on his opinions of these to make up your own mind if you desire to use this information at your own risk...

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
Thanks for sharing the fruits of a lot of work. Does anyone have experience with testing the slowest velocity that will open a ballistic tip type bullet?

I need to do some varminting in a population center and would like to keep noise down to around .22 rimfire but would still like the bullet to open.

I don't know if they are more fragile than some of the others..

but I have observed 40 grainers in 22 cal open up at 1200 fps...

and 50 grainers open up at about 1400 fps..

55s are a little tougher and need about 1500 to 1600 fps...

at least with what I have observed...
the old "your mileage may vary", fits here...

Thanks Seafire. I have a goose permit but the area is in the city limits. Where the area is, a .22 rimfire goes undetected but I am forced to make head shots. This is fine but often they are moving quite a bit, bobbing on the water. I went 6 for 8 last year. The area where the neck joins the body is much more forgiving but needs a litter stouter load than the .22 rimfire if you happen to get into the thick feathers. I want to make an immediate kill.

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
Thanks for sharing the fruits of a lot of work. Does anyone have experience with testing the slowest velocity that will open a ballistic tip type bullet?

I need to do some varminting in a population center and would like to keep noise down to around .22 rimfire but would still like the bullet to open.

Seafire and I don't agree on reduced loads of Blue Dot either but the cold war is over and we've reached detante so I'll stay out of that part, everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own decisions.
3) things however:
1)not to be picking nits but in the original question it was asked "what will shoot flat to 100 yards", a laser not to be a wiseguy. Anything at lower velocity will have some sort of trajectory small though it may be. The slower the velocity the more the trajectory, at .22 rim fire velocities the mid range trajectory is probably an inch and three quarters or so (W.A.G. there).
2) Hornady makes or at least used to make a .22 caliber bullet they called an SXSP I believe (I use the 70grain 6MM version in a 6BR for p-dogging). It is designed specifically to come unwrapped at lower velocities and in my experience does just that.
3) if the decibel level is that of a .22 the velocity is going to be that of a .22. I don't believe there's a free lunch here with out a suppressor which is of course illegal if you live in the states.

quote:

Anything at lower velocity will have some sort of trajectory small though it may be.

Thanks and understood. All my shots are within 50 yds.

I don't know if it's in the budget but if I was shooting Goose heads at 50 yards in an urban area I'd get a CZ .17 Mach2. Fairly reasonably priced rim fire.
Sounds like a .22 cause it's designed on the Stinger case.
Very frangible 17 grain bullet that seldom ever ricochets.
Mine shot this group at 50 yards on it's maiden voyage and I pulled one.



This was at 100.



Did this to a gopher at a bit over 75 yards.


You hit a goose in the head with that and it's a dead goose. I eradicate varmints for a couple of rancher friends and it's my in and around buildings rifle, killed a fair number of rock chucks with it and some of them are pretty tough old rodents. Quiet, extremely frangible, very accurate, it's a thought.

quote:

You hit a goose in the head with that and it's a dead goose

Same with the 22 rim. Will the 17 Mach2 penetrate the heavy goose feathers on the body before opening up? If I broadsided a goose with a 22 rim he would probably eventually die but would more than likely be 'wounded' for quite a while.


Also, Seafire2, what prevents detonation and other problems by having so little powder in the 223 case? I would think 8gr of Blue Dot could fall toward the bullet, far away from the primer causing inconsistancies.

Can't answer the feather question because if I shot a goose in Montana with a rifle I'd be the most unpopular hunter safety instructor that ever got a big fine for a game violation. I thought you were talking head shots? It'll certainly make those. Heck, get an HMR it'll certainly kill em, just slightly louder,just as accurate and again with few or no ricochets.
When you mention city limits and .22's or .22 Mags or especially cast and reduced loads I think ricochets and over penetration of the gooses head and then where does it go?

As to the Blue Dot question ya might call Ben Amonnette who is the head technical adviser and ballistician at Alliant who are the ones that make Blue Dot. 1-800-276-9337
I know what his answer will be cause he's already taken the time to post it here but call him anyway and get his explanation, I think it will answer your question nicely and be very enlightening. The call won't even cost you anything .

quote:

if I shot a goose in Montana with a rifle I'd be the most unpopular hunter safety instructor that ever got a big fine for a game violation. I thought you were talking head shots?

I know it's not sporting and I don't particularly like doing it - and wouldn't if I didn't have a valid permit to do so. The geese are a complete mess. If I don't take out the 1/2 dozen or so in the spring, I'll have 35-40 before I know it.

I am fortunate in that where I have to shoot, I have a high embankment to shoot into and the geese typically sit just at the water's edge. Behind the embankment is a fairly deep woods with no houses around. I am shooting well into the embankment so that I am very sure of all safety concerns.

I can live with the head shots only and if they would only be still(!) it wouldn't be a problem. I just know that hitting the body is a little more forgiving than a small head bobbing up and down. To kill thru the body, the bullet must pass thru a heavy wing and the thick feathers surrounding the body. A full blown 223 would do it fine but has much more noise than I want.

Thanks for the phone number as well.

Sporting doesn't have anything to do with it for me, I'm a meat hunter . If I had a permit and wanted to eat goose I'd shoot em with a rifle in a heartbeat. Here in Montana we can hunt Wild Turkeys with a rifle, my last Wild Turkey was taken with a head shot using a .22-250 at a fair bit over 300 yards. I'm sure some will call that unsporting, I call it food .
My point was just on a safety issue and it sounds like you have that covered. I still contend that at 50 yards a patient hunter from a rest with an accurate rifle be it HMR or .22 Mag. .17M2 or possibly even a .22LR should have no difficulty putting a round in a gooses head but body shooting them what with feathers and all is a whole nuther deal about which I know nothing. Good luck and have fun.

quote:

I know what his answer will be cause he's already taken the time to post it

Doug,

not trying to start an argument here...

but Ben Amonette did not post an answer here.. a forum member posted an email response from him.. ( H/C)....

I also posted an email from asking for and thanking me for sending him some of the work I had done with Blue Dot.. I had sent him the above stuff with the 223... I had talked to him on the phone about it... he had indicated that he wanted his shop to do some pressure testing on it...

of course that was blown off as "fiction" by the naythsayers.....

so in reality, I give up with some folks on here...but I have talked with the man and at his request sent him some load data, eg the 223 stuff and also the 243 data I did..and he did indicate he wanted to have it tested in their lab as he gets quite a few calls on the subject...

Actually Seafire your mistaken. In fact it was in one of your threads titled "Anyone with Bad Blue Dot Experiences from Seafire Load". It was in the Small Caliber forum on the second page posted Monday March 3rd 2008. Just about exactly a year ago. We all forget things and I'm the worst but here it is to refresh your memory. Go to that thread if you doubt my veracity.

Original post by Ben Amonette:


Mattkcc
new member

Posted Sat Mar 08 2008 11:59 PM Hide Post


Maybe someone should ask the maker of Blue Dot if it's ok.
We have never tested or recommended using Blue Dot for reloading rifle cartridges. We have heard of the practice and have received calls from reloaders looking for data. Our response has consistently been that we do not recommend Blue Dot be used in rifle applications due to us not having and test data to verify that it is safe. Blue Dot is a fast burning powder for rifle cartridges and pressure spikes can easily occur because of this. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions.



Ben Amonette

Consumer Service Manager

Alliant Powder Company

Posts: 7 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 17 November 2004 Reply With Quote

That's "his" post, not an email.


rcasto had a very valid question in my opinion.
"Quote"
Also, Seafire2, what prevents detonation and other problems by having so little powder in the 223 case? I would think 8gr of Blue Dot could fall toward the bullet, far away from the primer causing inconsistancies.
"Quote"

Rather than just telling the man to "trust me, and don't worry from it". I feel the need to explain to him that his question sounds perfectly reasonable to me in my 39+ years of reloading experience and let him know that there are indeed diverging opinions on that answer. What's the harm in his calling the makers of Blue Dot as has been suggested both by me and Ben Amonette?
As I stated above it's fine with me that we agree to disagree and everyone is indeed responsible for their own decisions but when a person asks a question he deserves to know that there are indeed opposing view points to the practice, especially on potential safety issues. A guys gotta say what he thinks. I would expect no less from you and I imagine you've come to see I'm the same way, no disrespect to you intended. I just agree with Ben on untested powders especially very fast pistol powders. Pressure spikes scare me, I'm fond of my eyes. If I'm going to do reduced loads I use bulky powders made for the task such as SR 4759, as IMR states about the powder "This bulky powder really shines as a reduced load propellant for rifle cartridges. Its large grain size gives good loading density for reduced loads, enhancing velocity uniformity" (exactly what rcasto is concerned about).
Bingo!
As we've discussed at length in the past I don't adhere to the one powder fits all school of thought, but it's certainly your right to do so. Don't see any need to beat this dead horse any further do you?

Ben at Alliant may not know of Blue Dot rifle loads, but his predecessors at Hercules sure did.
Over on 24HR Campfire, I posted a page of loads from a 1983 Hercules load book, where Blue Dot and Unique were listed, for jacketed and cast bullet use. Why they are no longer listed is up to speculation.
As I stated there, I neither endorse BD for use in all rifle cartridges, but nor do I condemn its use in all rifle cartridge. Where seemingly appropriate (backed by Hercules data, and some minor extrapolation), it sounds useful.

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:
Ben at Alliant may not know of Blue Dot rifle loads, but his predecessors at Hercules sure did.
Over on 24HR Campfire, I posted a page of loads from a 1983 Hercules load book, where Blue Dot and Unique were listed, for jacketed and cast bullet use. Why they are no longer listed is up to speculation.
As I stated there, I neither endorse BD for use in all rifle cartridges, but nor do I condemn its use in all rifle cartridge. Where seemingly appropriate (backed by Hercules data, and some minor extrapolation), it sounds useful.

Greg

That would be interesting reading Greg even though Alliant no longer backs the practice. Is it even the same powder recipe made in the same place?
My only experience with it was on that other site we frequented back about the time when we were both dealing with our Cooper .17 MachIV's. That was when that Randy fella "BLEW UP" a .223 with a reduced load of it in a Contender. Be it a reduced load or a double charge or whatever I do not know but all the pictures of parts and particles and most especially the eye surgery pictures sure made an impression on me. As reduced loads of Blue dot were all the rage about that time and it made me nervous anyway I called Alliant and was told "don't do it". Good enough for me , I have lots of powders. I've always believed in using the best tool available for the job.
On the other side of it I believe NECO posted some Blue Dot reduced loads with "cast" bullets with their Fire Lapping kit back in the early 90's, but again that's with cast bullets.
As rcasto mentioned in his question, I just can't in anyway get comfortable with that light of load density and a case mostly empty, especially where I'm in the field and might be aiming down.
Guess everyone takes the info available and makes the best decision they can for themselves and then hopefully Man up and accept the responsibility of their decisions if it goes South.
How's hog hunting? Be seeing ya around Greg.

quote:

Mattkcc
new member

Posted Sat Mar 08 2008 11:59 PM Hide Post


Maybe someone should ask the maker of Blue Dot if it's ok.
We have never tested or recommended using Blue Dot for reloading rifle cartridges. We have heard of the practice and have received calls from reloaders looking for data. Our response has consistently been that we do not recommend Blue Dot be used in rifle applications due to us not having and test data to verify that it is safe. Blue Dot is a fast burning powder for rifle cartridges and pressure spikes can easily occur because of this. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions.



Ben Amonette

Consumer Service Manager

Alliant Powder Company

Posts: 7 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 17 November 2004 Reply With Quote

Doug,

not to argue, but I will point out...
why would Ben Amonette post as Mattkc?..
plus it lists his location in Missouri....

Alliant Powder is based in Radford Va... I know if nothing else because that is the location of my family roots in that area of Virginia and I was born not too far from there...

I have multiple family members whom have worked at the Radford Arsenal over the years... and a few who still do.. several retiring from there..

Be it as it may.... you are good man.. and a fellow varmint shooter...

we may differ in our opinions of what powders to put in our rifle cases.. but to me that is not worth arguing over and alienating a fellow shooter, whom I'd be proud to share a varmint field over and consider an excellent point of information on a lot of small caliber wildcats etc...

I got started on it, from Calhoon bullets web site...and it has worked out pretty good for me and a lot of other folks...

we have all argued the pros and cons of the powder's usage.. so there are no new points to make...

and personally it is not worth alienating guys I look up to and respect....

people don't have to agree with me to have me consider them people I respect... and just because someone may agree with me, doesn't mean I automatically respect their opinions either...

and actually I have been able to test Blue Dot in the 17 Fireball this past fall... my original theories played out exactly as I predicted with the powder.. accuracy was excellent etc...

but out of respect for your opinions, and also Varmint Guys, I elected not to post them...

I just needed to see for myself if I was correct, or others were correct...

another guy on another forum also shared with me the work he had done with Blue Dot in the 17 Rem... I also elected not to share that info either...once again, strictly out of respect for you and VG...

I have also been testing and pointed out above, where I have also been using SR 4759....

I have ran those loads down as low as 8 grains and up to 18 grains in 223 cases...Blue Dot is as bulky... but for some reason, since there is more load data floating around... people are more comfortable using it...

there is a lot of 2400 load data floating around also, but I have not found it to be as accurate...

same thing with the two different 4227s...

quote:

Also, Seafire2, what prevents detonation and other problems by having so little powder in the 223 case? I would think 8gr of Blue Dot could fall toward the bullet, far away from the primer causing inconsistancies.

Blue Dot has shown in multiple cartridges that it is not position sensitive in the case....

I have tested it shooting down, shooting up, shooting down over a chronograph...

never has it shown to be positions sensitive, even with small charges down to 4 grains of it in the 223 case...

Blue Dot is a fairly bulky powder....

I have done the same with powders like SR 4756.. which is a very fine powder and not bulky at all...

it also didn't have any position sensitivity...
however it has the ability to pressure spike..
so I have never recommended using it...

So is your real name seafire 2?
Not re-hashing the blue dot issue, we agree to disagree. So be it.
That is however Ben's post and I've talked to him since so regardless of sleuthing efforts Ben posted that. Deny it if you will.
Don't mean nuthin anyway but guys with questions have a right to hear both sides and denying Alliant's position doesn't change it but it does misrepresent the facts to a guy with a question.
If after hearing their position a guy chooses to ignore it and do something else that is indeed his choice and a valid decision but it does not change their stated position. They are very clear on this one. Fact not opinion. Anyone with questions can use the 800 number I posted and ask em, no mystery here.
I'm outta here .
Have a good one.

Doug,

I 100% agree a wise person will get both sides of the story...

that way their minds are clear that they have entertained both sides...

that is why I am posting on anything else I give to have folks read HOT Core's opinions on the subject....

that way they have a clear conscience and so can I...

people should be informed on the pros and the cons...regardless of the subject...

Wow, they really hijacked your thread.

I shoot a .222 Rem. Mag., which is pretty close to a .223 Rem., and I've had success with a 50 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip over 10.5 grains of SR 4759. Velocity is just under 2000, which puts it between the 22 Magnum and the 22 Hornet.
I settled on that powder charge for the accuracy. I haven't used it on game yet.

Zeroed at 50 yds., it's on at 100, and about an inch low at 25.

quote:

Originally posted by slancey:
Wow, they really hijacked your thread.

That we did and I apologize sincerely.

slancey you are right on the thread hijack so to make up for it I thought I'd run that load on a ballistic program and show the numbers.
The BC on the 50 grain Nosler BT is .238.
Here is the data with the 50 yard zero you mentioned.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: 2,000fps with 50 grain Ballistic Tip
Ballistic Coeff: 0.238
Bullet Weight: 50
Velocity: 2000
Target Distance: 50
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 2000 fps 444 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.46 in 1934 fps 415 fpe 0.038 sec 0.27 in -0.53 in 0.07 in
50 yds -0.00 in 1869 fps 388 fpe 0.077 sec 1.12 in -0.31 in 0.37 in
75 yds -0.17 in 1805 fps 362 fpe 0.118 sec 2.60 in 0.08 in 0.99 in
100 yds -1.03 in 1744 fps 338 fpe 0.161 sec 4.77 in 0.66 in 1.90 in
125 yds -2.61 in 1685 fps 315 fpe 0.205 sec 7.66 in 1.44 in 3.07 in

Same load with a 100 yard zero.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: 2,000fps with 50 grain Ballistic Tip
Ballistic Coeff: 0.238
Bullet Weight: 50
Velocity: 2000
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 2000 fps 444 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.21 in 1934 fps 415 fpe 0.038 sec 0.27 in -0.53 in 0.07 in
50 yds 0.51 in 1869 fps 388 fpe 0.077 sec 1.12 in -0.31 in 0.37 in
75 yds 0.60 in 1805 fps 362 fpe 0.118 sec 2.60 in 0.08 in 0.99 in
100 yds 0.00 in 1744 fps 338 fpe 0.161 sec 4.77 in 0.66 in 1.90 in
125 yds -1.33 in 1685 fps 315 fpe 0.205 sec 7.66 in 1.44 in 3.07 in

I agree with you that SR 4759 is a better powder for reduced loads than Blue Dot, it was designed for the purpose.

What Primers are you using?

quote:

Originally posted by slancey:
Wow, they really hijacked your thread.

I shoot a .222 Rem. Mag., which is pretty close to a .223 Rem., and I've had success with a 50 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip over 10.5 grains of SR 4759. Velocity is just under 2000, which puts it between the 22 Magnum and the 22 Hornet.
I settled on that powder charge for the accuracy. I haven't used it on game yet.

Zeroed at 50 yds., it's on at 100, and about an inch low at 25.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
Thanks for sharing the fruits of a lot of work. Does anyone have experience with testing the slowest velocity that will open a ballistic tip type bullet?

I need to do some varminting in a population center and would like to keep noise down to around .22 rimfire but would still like the bullet to open.

Seafire and I don't agree on reduced loads of Blue Dot either but the cold war is over and we've reached detante so I'll stay out of that part, everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own decisions.
3) things however:
1)not to be picking nits but in the original question it was asked "what will shoot flat to 100 yards", a laser not to be a wiseguy. Anything at lower velocity will have some sort of trajectory small though it may be. The slower the velocity the more the trajectory, at .22 rim fire velocities the mid range trajectory is probably an inch and three quarters or so (W.A.G. there).
2) Hornady makes or at least used to make a .22 caliber bullet they called an SXSP I believe (I use the 70grain 6MM version in a 6BR for p-dogging). It is designed specifically to come unwrapped at lower velocities and in my experience does just that.
3) if the decibel level is that of a .22 the velocity is going to be that of a .22. I don't believe there's a free lunch here with out a suppressor which is of course illegal if you live in the states.

" I don't believe there's a free lunch here with out a suppressor which is of course illegal if you live in the states"

WRONG!!!
Suppressors are not illegal if you live in the states, the guidelines differ within each state and many will allow the use of suppressor with the proper BATF transfer stamp. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!!!!!!!

The NRA mag recently had a short article on suppressors and where and how to apply. I dont recall the issue number.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
Thanks for sharing the fruits of a lot of work. Does anyone have experience with testing the slowest velocity that will open a ballistic tip type bullet?

I need to do some varminting in a population center and would like to keep noise down to around .22 rimfire but would still like the bullet to open.

Seafire and I don't agree on reduced loads of Blue Dot either but the cold war is over and we've reached detante so I'll stay out of that part, everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own decisions.
3) things however:
1)not to be picking nits but in the original question it was asked "what will shoot flat to 100 yards", a laser not to be a wiseguy. Anything at lower velocity will have some sort of trajectory small though it may be. The slower the velocity the more the trajectory, at .22 rim fire velocities the mid range trajectory is probably an inch and three quarters or so (W.A.G. there).
2) Hornady makes or at least used to make a .22 caliber bullet they called an SXSP I believe (I use the 70grain 6MM version in a 6BR for p-dogging). It is designed specifically to come unwrapped at lower velocities and in my experience does just that.
3) if the decibel level is that of a .22 the velocity is going to be that of a .22. I don't believe there's a free lunch here with out a suppressor which is of course illegal if you live in the states.

" I don't believe there's a free lunch here with out a suppressor which is of course illegal if you live in the states"

WRONG!!!
Suppressors are not illegal if you live in the states, the guidelines differ within each state and many will allow the use of suppressor with the proper BATF transfer stamp. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!!!!!!!

quote:

Suppressors are not illegal if you live in the states, the guidelines differ within each state

They are legal in Oregon...

you just have to do the same background check as you do with a CCW... and just pay the big "sin tax", whatever that is...

I think the 'sin tax' on them is why you don't see more of them...

Local gun shop owner around here has been shooting 8 gns of blue dot over remmy bulk 50gn bullets for a long time in an AR and has no problems. Says it sounds like a 22mag. Been wanting to try it myself. I got out of loading for .44 mag and have a lb of blue dot w/ nothing in the future for it. Just drop powder and immediately seat bullet. I use a chargemaster so each charge is weighed. I check every 10-15th load on my beam to be sure on high volume stuff. Seafire are you using LC 5.56 brass or is it actually .223 stuff?