I'm looking for a good long range varmint rifle. I have a 17 hmr right now and although its decent it just doesn't have the explosive power id like above 100 yrds. the problem I'm having is that I live in a somewhat developed area. All the fields have houses under a mile away, so i dont want anything thats really loud. I dont expect it to be as quiet as my 17 but i don't want the roar of a 30-06. Any suggestions on caliber and/or rifle?

Savage 12vbSS-S in .223 roger

I am definatly a fan of that rifle after looking at it at the local gander mt. Plus the 223 is pretty cheap to shoot. Is the muzzle report resonably quiet? Also is it noticably quieter than a 30-06. I hate waking up the neighbors when I'm shooting groundhogs.

Roger has a very good suggestion.

You might also look into a .204 Ruger or a 17 Rem.
A lot depends on what you consider " long range" and what is your maximum size varmints at that distance.

To some people shooting crows at 150 is long range. To some people 'yotes at 400 is long.
I would lean towards a Savage 12VBSS in .223 or .204 as Roger suggested.

I'm estimating about 200-250 yrds max for mostly ground hogs and foxes. However coyotes are also a possiblity. My biggest concern is noise. Since you guys seem to think that 223 or 204 would be good. Are the 22-250's and 220 swifts louder than they are?

Yes, the 22-250 is a great cartridge, but loud,

So the 223 is probably going to be it. I just hope it isn't loud. Do you guys all think the savages are good guns?

Dave, you won't be dissapointed with the 223 or a 204. I shoot both at prairie dog and enjoy both calibers. The 204 registered several kills this fall at 500 yards and the 223 at 400 yards. The savages, while maybe not being as pleasing to the eye, are great shooters, I don't think you could go wrong.

Do you handload? You can load "light" with a .223 and be much quieter and still have a nice 200 yard rifle. The .223 is MUCH louder than a 17 HMR but you about double the effective range. That being said its quieter than the Swift or 22/250. If your really worried about noise you can work up a load that is a dupicate of the .22 hornet like I have. My neighbors here all shoot like crazy also so thats a relief that I don't have to worry about any complaints. I just don't like it hard on my ears! FNMauser

I've been mostly considering the 22 hornet and 204 ruger because I've heard they are pretty quiet. At this point I do not hand load so I'd be sticking with factory ammo for at least a while. Is the 22 hornet a decent round that can compete with the 223 and 204 up to about 250 yards?

NO THE HORNET CANNOT COMPETE WITH THE .204 or THE .223 at 250 yards!!!
Now as far as noise, .204 or .223.....not much difference but compared to the 17HMR both are a bit louder!!! Don't even concern yourself with the Hornet vs these two!! Now if you could find a good decent .222Remington (all .222Remingtons were decent.....I'm speaking in terms of "asthetics"..looking good, it would suffice for what you want!! And at a bit less noise than the other two!
For just pure varmint hunting, semi-long range fun,.....the .204!!! The inherrent accurracy of the case and the "no recoil...watch the bullet strike the varmint" makes this one a "no-brainer" for what you want to do!!! The .223 is a great little deal!! Before all the .223 fans jump in my doo-doo!! But the .204 is just plain fun!!! Watch the spray fly out of the eyeballs, the neck or the chest!! And hear the sound of a 32 or 39 grain SIERRA BlitzKing do the deal all the way out to 400 yards!! More fun than eatin' beans!!! GHD

.223 all the way , without a doubt.
The Hornet is queiter, but only good for 175yds.

It depends on how big of "varmint" you might be after .

The Hornet loaded with 40 gr plastic tip bullets wouldn't be all that horrible out to 250 yards on the smaller stuff (assuming you are a handloader) and it would be fairly quiet .

For more range and flatter trajectory the .17 Remington and the .204 are the top picks in my book , and both pretty safe in the type of country you are talking about.....about zero chance of richochets .

If you are not a handloader , 223 is the only choice.....

quote:

The Hornet is queiter, but only good for 175yds.

I know of alot of dead crows and ground hogs that would argue with this remark.

I just got a .221 Fireball and think is a perfect choice for the the gap between a .22 Hornet and the .223. Accurate and effective to 300 yards.

If quiet is what you're after then the .22 Hornet is tough to beat. It will take the little critters with ease and coyotes at 150 yards with a well placed shot. It's agreat round for your descripted use.

That said, I'd probably still use a .223 as factory fodder is easy to get in a wide variety and a little less expensive. Frangible bullets would be a must though with houses close by. The cheap FMJ stuff would not be something to use IMO. Nate

BigNate and crowrifle both have good points.

The .221 does fill the gap between the .204 and the .223 nicely. But unless you handload, the .223 would get the nod in my book over the .221 with the .204 a very close second.

BigNate is right about FMJ bullets with houses that close. I would use only frangible bullets in your situation.

the 204 is a natural but I would also consider a hornet as others have mentoned above. I like the K hornet verson but it is not necessary.

the hornet will get you to the 200-250 yd range while the 204 will get you to the 400 yd range. IMO. good shooting and have fun making the choice.

I think the hornet is a bit quieter. Less velocity and less of a sonic boom to be had. the 204 can really crack but is still not loud.

I have not gotten a more accurate rifle out of the box than my 204 in a #1 in December. It will shoot 5 in under an inch at 200 yards and I did absolutely nothing except add a scope to it.

Whatever you decide you will enjoy it but the varmints won't

Joh

Im thinking im gonna go for the 204. I dont hand load yet so my last concern is does anyone make factory loads for it with the polymer tipped bullets?

I'm 99.9% certain that Hornady does. I have best results with the 32 gr bullets. Simply devastating on gophers. In one year it has become my favorite rat gun.

John

If you have homes not too far away, you might want to think about the 221 fireball or the 222 remington. Not too noisy and plenty accurate.

My favorite rifle for LR varmints is a 700/Shilen barreled .220 Swift with a fast twist. I shoot 75 grain Hornady AMAX bullets. Once you try a heavy .224, you will never shoot lighter ones at long range. The wind drift is about half that of a lighter bullet over 4000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
My favorite rifle for LR varmints is a 700/Shilen barreled .220 Swift with a fast twist. I shoot 75 grain Hornady AMAX bullets. Once you try a heavy .224, you will never shoot lighter ones at long range. The wind drift is about half that of a lighter bullet over 4000 fps.

His biggest concern is noise and he is looking for a gun that will reach out 200-250 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Roberts:
I'm estimating about 200-250 yrds max for mostly ground hogs and foxes. However coyotes are also a possiblity. My biggest concern is noise. Since you guys seem to think that 223 or 204 would be good. Are the 22-250's and 220 swifts louder than they are?

A 220 Swift, while a fine varminter, maybe the best long-range varmint cartridge of all time, is not the correct cartridge in this situation IMHO.

Flippy:

Sorry. .223 is my pick. Best overall varmint cartridge around IMO.

OK so any suggestions on the gun, I have narrowed it to several choices. CZ 527 American, Remington 700 sps, savage 12fv, but I'm also open to suggestions on any other relativly inexpensive gun.

For your wishes, SAVAGE in .204!!! Yes all the ammo makers offer the "plastic tipped" bullets(except Winchester and theirs is their 34 grain HP version which I havent got the chance to test yet(maybe tomorrow!!!) Sick to the 32 grain Hornady or 32 grain SIERRA or 39 grain SIERRA loadings!! The 40 grain Hornadys shooting acceptable in any 204's I know of(with the exception of one of the Model 7 synthetics(only made 500 of them!!!)(and the one that shot them ok is not mine!!) is a joke!!! GHD

Can't go wrong with a .223, I have a .223 in a CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar, shoots 1/4 MOA with 50gr V-Max homeloads and is deadly out to 300 yds.
223 moves around in the wind a lot than my .22/250 though.

What about the 22 hornet. With factory loads, whats the maximum range that I'd get "red mist" from groundhogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeffers:
Can't go wrong with a .223, I have a .223 in a CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar, shoots 1/4 MOA with 50gr V-Max homeloads and is deadly out to 300 yds.
223 moves around in the wind a lot than my .22/250 though.

I tend to agree that the .223 is a pretty good round with decent accuracy and reasonable ammo price.

One jump out in my opinion is either the .243 or .260. Both of these do a very nice job of "long range" from 200 out to better than 600 yards. A little louder of course but not bad and clear advantage when PDs learn where 300 yards is. With my .260, they just sit out there at 350 and watch the games. That's when I nail them. The little 100 grain SVHP is an excellent bullet for some reason in my 1 in 9 Lilja 6 groove. 3270 MV.

D.



Shown below is .17HMR Cooper with .260 M70 in back.

A K Hornet or a 221 Fireball if you reload,if not a 223 Rem.for shots out to 250 Yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Roberts:
What about the 22 hornet. With factory loads, whats the maximum range that I'd get "red mist" from groundhogs.

First you wanted quiet varminting close to houses. Now you want to throw in "red Mist factor". The two don't go together very well!
If you want to throw them into the air spaying bits & pieces then you need to make some noise doing it!

You can't have it all in one rifle. For the original question the answer is somewhere around the .17HMR,.22 Mag, .22 Hornet area.

For the "mist" effect,,,,, we have yet to open that can! Nate

DMCI Love the portable shooting table/bench! Can you tell a bit about it? Plans, where did you get it? Nate

quote:

Originally posted by catboat:
...For lower price, there is the NEF 22 hornet, or 223.

A 223 is the standard by which other small game centerfires are benchmarked against, like it or not.

Ask the question over at varminthunters.com (go go varmint go, message board).

Catboat is right about the .223 and the el cheapo NEF's.

I bought one a few months ago (could not pass it up for the asking price, $100 with a scope) and it flat shoots ANY ammo I have fed through it including a bunch of misc. military hardball that I have been collecting over the years.

That NEF will embarrass many much more expensive rifles, even with a so-so trigger. When I find somebody that will do a trigger job on it, I am sure it will be a one-hole rifle.

And you can send it back to NEF and for $85 they will fit a barrel to it in any one of a dozen or so calibers.

Hard to beat for the price.

And sorry AZ for doggin you on your first post. I didn't want to confuse the guy!

Well I bought a 22-250 savage today. Can I expect the "red-mist" with the first groundhog I shoot with it. I bought winchester silvertip ammo.

Dave, You skipped the one intregral part of your original post!!!!.....the noise part!!! The 22-250 is the "GOD'S gift to rifledom as far as the .224's go!!! But it does have a significant "crack" to it when it goes off!!!
As far as factory stuff goes, you'd be hard pressed to find a more accurate(in a lot of factory 22-250's!!!!!) than the Winchester white box, 40 round, 45 grain HP avaailable at Wal-Mart or whatever the big chain stores in your area are(probably Wal-Mart!!!....they're everywhere!!!)
Unless you go to the BLACK HILLS stuff which isn't going to be available at your local WAL-MART!!!
Enjoy the 22-250!!! AS far as somebody posting on here earlier, my .204 using the 39 gr. SIERRAS handles the short stuff.....500- and the big dogs come out of the truck for the serious varmints!! 6mm, 25-06, .260, .300SAUM!! GHD PS: But then we don't have the wind to contend with on a regular basis like some of my bretheren do in the western states!! The 6mm with the match bulets and the .260 with the LONG DRAWN OUT 140's and 142's can handle the super long stuff!!!

Yeah I know i skipped the noise part. I just sorrta thought it over for a while and realized that rarely do I get more than a few shots a day at a ground hog. Plus I regularly blast away with my 357 mag which is pretty loud. So I figured Id live with the occasional noise. Plus now I have one of the best varmint rounds around. Will those winchester white boxs give me red mist when the hit. Also they aren't going to richocet right?

had a 22-250 great little rifle i prefered the remington loaded with the 50 grain v max or even the lighter 40 grain v max they defintly leave a little rad mist

but now i hunt all my yotes with my brand new ruger #1 in 270 weatherby mag with 130 grain x bullets at 3350 fps.

221 Fireball for sure.

On a scale of noise, I'd place them like this:
221
.
223
17
204
22/250
220

The 221 also works very well with reduced loads (anywhere from about 1200 fps right up to 3500 fps), and the noise level varies with the velocity. Accuracy was excellent, and it was a very easy case to reload. Mine was used on rabbits/foxes out to about 250 yards. I sold it to finance another project, but I'm currently looking at buying another one.

First varmint rifle I ever owned was a 22-250 back in about 69 or 70. It's a classic and still is hard to beat if you could only have one rifle for varmints of all kinds.

My vote would have to go to a Rem 700 LV (light varmint) in .221 fireball. It will be very accurate, not too noisy, and have a plenty flat enough trajectory for the ranges that you specified. I use 40 gr balistic tips in mine.

.220 Swift the king of varmint cartridges.