The old rule was this would be a 6 mm or a .25 cal. Now I see a lot of claim that the 204 is better.

I like the Savage 112 and was thinking of getting one in 25-06 for windy days, at 10 pounds I thought you could actually shoot a 25-06 with (some) comfort. I was also considering same but in 243 win.

It's neat to have a single purpose rifle in the safe. Are my ideas about wind buckers outdated? Can I actually get better wind performance with a smaller, more tame round?

Wind deflection is all about time of flight in a vacuum vs time of flight in air and ballistic coefficient . It is a complex equation for the average Joe to compute .
Best bet is to employ a free internet - based external ballistics program and plug in your numbers eg. velocity , ballistic coefficient , altitude , temperature wind strength etc.
The program will give you a read out of bullet drop and wind deflection .
The .204 will not outdo the heavier , more ballistically efficient projectiles from a .243 or .25/06 . It will outdo some of the lighter , less efficient projectiles .
Bullet manufacturer's web pages usually quote ballistic coefficients (BC) for their projectiles . Velocities you can get from any reloading manual .
This is the program I use :- http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/balistics/index.htm

The bigger calibers will still outdo the .204 if you go to the heavier high b.c. bullets .

But I don't think you will gain anything if you figure to use the ligher end of 25 cal. from 75 to 87 gr or 6mm s from 55 to 80 gr.

The 204 does buck wind very well for a snall caliber hotshot with the 39-40 gr bullets , and you still have the lazerlike trajectory , about zero recoil , moderate muzzle blast , and little to no chance of richochet .

So it's all about tradeoffs and if the few inches of less wind deflection is worth to you the disadvantages the bigger calibers bring with them.....more powder consumption , more barrel heating , increased danger of richochets , etc.

Just what ranges are you folks inferring the ballistic superiority of the 25/06 over the 204 Ruger at?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: Answer very carefully please!

Makeminestainless: You mention in your post that a single purpose (all around?) Rifle (this is the Varmint Forum so lets assume you mean an all around Varmint Rifle) interests you!
The 204 Ruger cartridge in an accurate factory Varminter (all the ones I have heard about and own have been accurate by the way!) for a single purpose (all around Varminter!) is so vastly superior to any 25/06 that I have ever owned, used or seen that its actually a laughably easy win for the 204!
Just envision yourself in a Colony Varmint situation where firing 400+ rounds a day is not uncommon and envision your self enduring that recoil, muzzle blast, noise etc and trying to deal with the various other ramifications of firing 400+ 25/06 rounds at those Colony Varmints!
I long ago gave up using the 25/06 for high volume Varmint shooting.
Just waiting for the barrel to cool enough so a person could see through their scope when using a 25/06 in a high volume opportunity situation would be self defeatingly slow!
Recoil induced lack of target viewing would also hamper this type situation from being fully enjoyed to such a point that a rational Varmint Hunter would try firing 400+ rounds a day from a 25/06 only about ONCE!
On the other hand the 204 is much more economical to shoot to begin with and the amazing ballistic numbers the 204 puts up out to 500 yards or so (that is the distance within which 99% of all Varmint shots are taken by the way!) that a Varminter need look no further for his all around Varmint cartridge!
These are just a couple of the reasons I chose the 204 Ruger to join my Varmint arsenal!
Another reason is accuracy! I did not specifically choose the 204 Ruger because it is more accurate than the 25/06 cartridge! I chose the 204 because it is more accurate than a whole lot of Varmint cartridges - the 25/06 included!
Yeah the 25/06 in a Ground Squirrel, Jack Rabbit, Prairie Dog, Rock Chuck or Crow rich environment is simply over-kill and less fun than a 204 - along with all the other detrimental attributes of a 25/06 this question is a no brainer!
On the other end of the Varmint spectrum the 25/06 is not so much over-kill on Coyotes but the 204 Ruger is lacking in no way that I can find when it comes to Hunting Coyotes! And of course the 204 would still retain its other superior attributes over the 25/06.
And being fur friendly is not a reputation the 25/06 has! Imagine shooting a beautiful Bobcat with a 25/06! Yeah, no contest there with the 204 being obviously superior to use for harvesting these trophy Varmints!
I own a 25/06 and have only used it a few times in the last several years for Coyotes. The 204 would have served me every bit as well as the 25/06 for this use and, if I may opine, I think it would have served me BETTER!
All around Varminter = 204 Ruger!
25/06 is NOT an all around Varminter!
So far my list of Varmints brought to bag with my various 204's includes: Rock Chuck, Porcupine, Weasel, Badger, Coyote, Prairie Dogs, feral cats, Ground Squirrels, Jack Rabbits, Raccoon, Cottontail Rabbits, flying Varmints of several species, Skunk and Snowshoe Hare!
I found the 204 Ruger cartridge lacking in no way what so ever while harvesting any of these Vermin!
Long live the 204!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

What I really need to know is what ranges you plan to shoot? For 200-500 I think a 25.06 would be fine or a 243. Personally I also think the 204 will do fine at this range with the 40 or 50 grain bullets.

If over 500 or 700-1000 the 204 is not the ticket. I would then look to a 6.5mm or above if you don't mind the added recoil.

Once you get above the 25.06 you really need a very heavy rifle (15 plus pounds) or a brake to see your hits.

Mike.

Single purpose means windy day varmints, smaller than coyotes and not as rapid fire as colony shooting, within 500 yards. The rifle can be heavy as I don't plan to make it a walking rifle.

Obviously I can use it for non-windy days too. I don't need to though as I have others availible. I just want to make one maximized for shooting in the wind out to 500 yards or so, that is the single purpose goal.

Go back up to Bushchook's post, and follow his advice. BC is everything in the world of wind drift.

I agree with Digital Dan. Target shooters shoot heavy bullets for the high BC just because of wind drift. If faster, lighter bullets did the trick, they would be using them.

Get the .25-06. In the kind of wind that makes you worry about it nothing smaller will come close, as long as you pick bullets with a high bal coef. and push them fast.

I thought the rule was 1" drift every 100yds for every 10mph of wind as long as the bullet stays supersonic?

Dick ,
Haven't heard that one but know that unfortunately it just ain't that simple . Think you'll find that as the projectile slows it is more influenced by wind . If you have ever played golf you'll know what I mean .
Could check on the ballistic calculator that I recommended above if you wanted to .Digital Dan could tell you off the top of his head .

Dick, the effects of wind deflection are not linear. The operative word here is "deflection", not drift as is commonly applied. Try a search on my posts, probably in 'small bores' or 'varmint hunting', and you might find some recent discussion on the subject. As Bushchook said, it is not a simple subject, and I do not have the time at the moment for a 'windy' post.

Is accurage barrel life a consideration? I suspect neither round is known for long barrel life. Any cartridge which burns lots of powder with small dia bore will tend to have a shorter than average barrel life especially if you let if get hot by firing lots of rounds in rapid succesion. If you're not shooting real long range the good ole 223 is an ideal varmint cartridge and its fur friendly too.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by makeminestainless:
The old rule was this would be a 6 mm or a .25 cal. Now I see a lot of claim that the 204 is better.

I like the Savage 112 and was thinking of getting one in 25-06 for windy days, at 10 pounds I thought you could actually shoot a 25-06 with (some) comfort. I was also considering same but in 243 win.

It's neat to have a single purpose rifle in the safe. Are my ideas about wind buckers outdated? Can I actually get better wind performance with a smaller, more tame round?

I don't think your ideas are outdated though it does depend on how far you are looking to shoot.

I hunt often up in Wyoming where the wind can become "noticable" so to speak. I've toyed with speed and had good success out to 250 yards or so with rather spectacular hits. For example, when the wind is blowing 40mph the pdogs crouch on their holes. When the bullet hits they launch up. The wind catches their flayed body and they can fly over 30 feet from the hole. Amazing.

For longer range, speed helps but it becomes game of dimishing returns amid increasing recoil.

My barrel maker would always tell me that it is harder to compensate for conditions then it is for distance. With the advent of the laser rangefinder I would have to agree.

Now my long range rifle is the same as my short range rifle. I shoot a fast twist 6BR. For windy days I shoot 95 gr. Berger VLDs or 105 gr. Sierra matchkings. For short range I shoot 60 gr. Berger MEFs. It is an outstanding feeling to whack something at 700 yards while being accosted by a 90 degree, 40mph Wyoming squal. Often times the misses are attributable to my overcompensating for wind drift rather than vice versa.

So, in my experience you need speed but you don't need that much of it. Just enough to keep your bullet from going transonic near your target.

re5513

MMS,
You've gotten a lot thrown your way! Some is very accurate advice. BC is everything!

We all have or develope a favorite,,,,,, until we develope a new favorite. I love the quarter-bore for long range varmints. And for me, I like being able to use them for deer.

When you mention single use rifle you could go so far as to build a varminter for windy days only. A heavy .224 caliber in say .220 Swift, .22-250, or the TTH? (I think it's called) or some thing even more exotic, with a fast twist barrel for shooting the longest heavy VLD bullet ( up to 80gr now I think)and it will do as well or better than the .25-06. One rifle I probably will build some day is a .25-284, 6.5-284, or 6.5mm-WSM just for the long range action. I would love to build some custom rifles but I wouldn't be looking at a windy day rifle only, but more the medium weight walking varminter concept on a bigger round. There are several viable options in my safe now for windy day varmints and out to 500 really isn't to bad. Unless you're up in eastern MT., Wy, ND...some of the windiest places I've been! Minot,ND has got to be one of the most miserable places on earth.

I would probably spend more money on better optics for some of them before I had a custom built. Nate

Big Nate: I was just in an extended conversation with a "masters degreed" Montanan last month regarding the WIND on the high plains!
He was part of a study venture some years back that actually went around the less populated areas of the west and put up equipment and studied the wind velocities and consistencies!
According to him the area around Medicine Bow, Wyoming was the "windiest" they found!
The purpose of the privately funded study was to find areas to put up the big wind mill type electric producing structures! I was in the Medicine Bow area this past spring and YES the wind was blowing. And someone had put up a huge field of wind mills there now. A local informed me that there were 144 of them in use and more to come in the future!
It semed to me that every time I went to the Thunder Basin National Grassland (eastern Wyoming) to Varmint Hunt the wind would blow!
There are places in Montana where the wind blows so often and so hard that it makes you wonder where all that wind (air!) is going! And where it came from.
I saw on the late news last night that Alta, Utah had wind gusts yesterday (November 14th) of 106 MPH! Now try to figure out the wind drift (common terminology for wind deflection!) in that kind of wind!
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, The boy told me it was snowing sideways briefly the other day. I guess it didn't dump much but what there was on the ground had landed a few miles back!

Good to hear from you. Nate