If you guys were looking at a factory for shooting ground hogs at out to 600 yards, what would you get? I'm looking for something like a .308 or maybe even a .300 Winchester, but I haven't really decided on anything yet. I would like to get a good factory rifle, though, in a standard chambering. Thanks in advance.

A .243 or 6mm Rem. should work as a factory gun.
You could always punch them out later to AI's.

I take a 243 a 22/250 and a 25/06
the 25/06 with 70gr noslers was great out to 600yrd as long as the wind was low.
the 243 floated around and the 22/250 was consistent to about 450yrds.

I probably should have mentioned that I already have a .22-250, which is why I really wasn't thinking about a .243 because there would be some overlap. It is something to think about, though, what .243 bullets would be best for the longer shots?

I would go with a 308, match ammo, range finder and a scope with turret knobs...600 yards is a hell of a shot at a small target. Throw wind into the situation, and it is even more difficult.

quote:

Originally posted by chuckslayer:
A .243 or 6mm Rem. should work as a factory gun.
You could always punch them out later to AI's.

Yeah, That's what I would have said!

Savage makes their heavy barrel Mode12FVSS in 300 WSM. I have one. The rifle is extremely accurate. I shoot a 155 grain Sierra Palma bullet into groups under 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I had the rifle restocked. Put a Leupold scope with the Varmint Hunter reticle on it. You should have no problem shoting hog's at 600 yards if you do your part. Tom.

Juston if you are hunting groundhogs you are hunting in the east and
this is no place to turn loose a fast 30 cal.One of the best gun's for
groundhog's is a Remington 700 Var.in 6mm loaded with 87 gr.V-Max. good
past 600yds.A lot more range than 22-250..
Jon D.

Jon D has it right. Even out west where I am, a .30 can be a bit much, depending on area. My rifle, using the 87gr V-Max has shown excellent capabilities out to 800 yds. Beyond that, I'd want my buddy's 6-284 with 1-8" twist and 105gr Hornady A-Max's.

A 6mm Rem on a long action... even a 243 with a fast twist...

or a 22.250 or 220 Swift, with a faster twist for 75 and 80 grain bullets....

you don't need a magnum and a 25/0-6 might be overkill in my book.. but not grossly...

a 257 Roberts would be my pick in 25 cal...

but neither will give you any more than a 6mm Rem on a long action, or a 220 Swift or 22.250 with a fast twist...

The 25 WSSM is the cream of the crop!

I whack PDs with extreme efficiency out past 600 yards with a .25-06 Rem. If you want you can make it a .25-06AI. I have no familiarity with the .25 WSM but I am sure it would be great. I shoot 100 grain bullets.
Will

i would also suggest the VH reticle no matter what cartridge/bullet combination u decide on. It's one of the most versatile of ballistic and rangefinding reticles really, especially for the turret user that applies windage with the reticle. Learn the systems for vertical and horizontal reference for LR shooting. Get a cheap anemometer for learning to read wind. Calculate dope and check it/troubleshoot it to establish the most efficient system for 1st shot connections at that range. Walking them in is a huge waste of ammo, and not nearly as rewarding as the 1st shot connection especially for GH's as they're the most fun resource of all to learn tactical LR applications...except maybe coyotes.

A 260 Rem. may be a good option here also.

I think a fast twist .223 with heavy bullets might do the trick.

Any of the new savages would work for you... I got this one

12 F Class Precision Target Rifle


* Laminated flat bottomed stock with extra-wide ventilated forend
* Target AccuTrigger adjustable from 6 oz. to 2 ½ lbs
* Right bolt, right port short action receiver
* Smaller ejection port for extra rigidity
* 30" Extra-heavy stainless barrel
* Chambered in 6.5 X 284 NORMA
* MSRP $1211

Just curious as to why you guys think a fast .30 cal is too much for ground hogs? I'm not looking to save any part of them, and I used to practice shooting ground hogs with my .30-06 and .300 WSM all the time (the reason I'm not using these rifles are they're sporters and not really what I'm looking for in this rifle). Not safe? I never shoot anything skylined and/or too close to a skyline, so I don't see what the problem is, as long as I use a fragile bullet (I was thinking ballistic tips, but I haven't made any decisions there yet, naturally). Just asking, not questioning anyone's suggestions.

Head0001,

Where in WV is Rivesville? I hunt in WV near Dallas Pike and live in SW PA, might not be too far away from you. Who put that stock on? Looks like a really nice set up.

Between Morgantown and Fairmont. I had a smith in Mannington, WV do the stock work. He did a pretty good job. Tom.

I would start by looking at anything from Savage. I just picked up a Long Range Precision Varminter in 22-250 and I love it. I'm still breaking it in, but the largest group I've shot so far is .741" at 100yds. The smallest is .391". And this is with Remington's UMC 50gr bullet load. I just wanted something to shoot until could get some brass. So if the cheap stuff shoots this well, I can't wait to see how it shoots with better ammo.

I wanted a heavier caliber but they don't offer it in this gun. What I plan to do is just get a second barrel in the heavy caliber, probably 6.5x284. It will be cheaper for me to buy the complete gun and put a new barrel on it than it is to buy the action, stock, and barrel individually. But since you want a factory rifle in standard caliber, I'd recomend the Model 12 F/TR in 308win. That should be just what you're looking for.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of their Model 12 series or tactical rifles. They're all great.

Having said that, the Tikka T3 varmint and tactical rifles look extremely nice as well.

This is just my two cents, but, i used a savage 116 bss in 300 win mag just one summer and after a couple (zings) i was really nervous about hunting ghogs with it and when i did i would only shoot them if i was shooting down hill into soft ground or if i was shooting against a hillside. One question though are there any houses close by, if so, i wouldnt reccomend it, ricochets happen and they are awfully loud and they get really hot after 3-4 shots in a row, i know were i hunt them there are lots of times were i see 3-4 at a time and numerous shots in a row aren't uncommon just my opinion. Didnt mean to fire anyone up, or jump off the subject.

I would look into a .25-06, although I think my next long range rifle I build up will be a 7mm STW

aren't some of your boys who are advocating things like Magnums etc... a little concerned about riccochets? I certainly would and where I live, the environment is a lot more safer and less populated by a long shot, compared to where you boys shoot ground hogs...
....................

I guess I have never hunted Ground hogs in a populated area, here in west texas we have thousands of yards of ground before you find the nearest anything when you are out in a Pdog town

Back in the 1950's I only had one centerfire rifle, a custom built 7mm Ackley Magnum. I use it for everything, including groundhogs.
Sure did a number on them...

Don

justin,
look at tikka's t-3 varmit 308
remingtons sendero 25-06 or 270 winchester
savages varmit rigs in same calibers as above,
less wind drift,257..100 grainers,277..90-110 grainers 308...125 tnt's nbt's 150 match.
stand for something,or fall for anything.
regards.

Id have to agree with seafire. That is why i dont use my 300 anymore.

Well I'll add my 2 cents......being from the North East and finally shooting Prarie Dogs in South Dakota i noticed 2 things. We went with all intention of killing a dog @ 1000 yds....but that didn't happen. The best we did was 606 yds (range finder verified). The first thing I noticed was judging distances was alot harder out west than back east....as the terrain has few references......if you don't use a range finder your only kidding yourself! Second was the strong cross wind....or wind in general you have to shoot in. We were shooting in a brisk wind....so brisk that if you held a large mouth gatorade bottle up w/o the cap on...it would make a whistleing sound like your were blowing over it w/ your mouth. That being said my buddy was using a 6X284 and was hold almost 20 click to the right w/ 100 grain bullets. I was using 6.5X284 and I had 10-11 click to the right w/ 140 gr bullets! Sometime it not neccessarly how far you can reach but the realistic weather conditions you have to shoot in. The 3rd memeber was using a 223 w/ 52 gr bullets and wasn't effective after 250 yds.

Arrccod

Mule o

Do you ever get shots at ground hogs at 600 yds in PA?

Doesn't the rolling terrain and natural vegitation (not to mention safety considerations) make the possibility of a 600 yard shot at a groundhog extremely remote?

I'd stay with something like a .22-250.

In NE PA we're a little more mountainous than Rolling hills. There was a time when I thought I was killing WoodChucks at 500yds, but a Lie Detector aka Range Finder proved that all wrong!Only to find out it was only 300yds. Where I live a 600 yd shot is a hard thing to come by.
The 6.5X284 was bought with the intention to be used out west. The point I was trying to make was a 22.250 is fine for 600 yds, but if shooting in any kind of wind a caliber with a heavier bullet would be prefered.

Bill

Mule o

I shoot hundreds of rock chucks each year. Many of those are at extended ranges. I started shooting long (over 500 yard) range chucks with a 220 swift, gravitated to a 243, 257 Roberts AI, 260 Remington, 308 and eventually a 7mm STW.

The 7mm STW was great for the spectator but not for the shooter. Unless the range was over 700 yards I could not get back on target after recoil and 20 scope power to see the hit/miss.

The 308 is ok but hits you with a little much recoil for extended shooting. The 260 was very good and was one of the only guns I have shot with a brake.

I have gone back to shooting the 243. To me the 243 shooting 87 grain vmax or 105 amax is a great 500 yard + chuck gun. Recoil is very light in a heavy rifle, components are cheap and available.

Mike.

DaMan,

People around here shoot a lot farther than 600 yards. A fellow I was talking to at the range has killed them at over twice that distance, showed me where he was shooting at, too. Believe me, I've walked from where he was shooting to where he shot, at it's a fur piece. A friend of mine has killed them out to 1000, too, there are places to shoot that long, just takes some looking around and figuring out where you need to get set up for a shot like that.

Thanks for everyone's advice on the cartridges, guys, I think I might look at the .243 a little closer, but I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to get, yet. Might wait til I'm home for Christmas and get a rifle so I can have some time to shoot it!

Justin-I've done quite a bit of chuckin out here in Montana. For the most part any more we make sure we have at least 400 yds and then get to it.

Anything closer than that is just too easy if you're using a supported position.

For me I like the big 6's, I use a 6/06 quite a bit. I also like the 270 the 7 Mashburn Super, the 300 Wby and the 340 Wby.

IME anything smaller than the good sized 6's at best just puts them to sleep once the range gets out there a bit.

I really like to toss them around and the bigger bullets also make it a bit easier to see your bullets strikes and call your own shots.

To each his own but I'd not want anything smaller than a 6 of some sort.

Mark D

I'll agree with what has been said about the .243 using the heavier, high BC bullets. I'll also add that my favorite for long range 'hoggin is the 7mm Rem mag shooting 168 Matchkings. These big, aerodynamic bullets stand pretty straight in the wind and have been seriously accurate in the 3 rifles I've used them in. I have a .243 I expected to use the 87 gr. V-Max's in, but I didn't find a load that was accurate enough for long range with that bullet in that rifle. What I did find was a load pushing the 58 gr. V-Max's at 3800 fps with sufficient accuracy for 600 yd. shooting, if the wind is calm. I'm currently doing load work with another 7mm mag hoping to come up with accuracy sufficient for 800 yard marmots.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the various smaller Weatherby calibers. The 240, 257, or 270 would be ideal in this role. I know the 257 has a legendary status among long range varmint hunters. They might be something to check out if you're looking.

how about a 25-284?? for a 6mm-284 you would have to have a fast twist and shoot heavy VLDs to get a significant gain over the 243.

Id consider the 25-284. id choose it over the 257weatherby just because the weatherby is belted.
then again when has a 25-06 ever failed anyone?

I have a Mauser that I am setting up for real long range stuff like that...

It has a 31 inch heavy bull barrel ( 1.25 inches at the muzzle)

It has a Richards Microfit Benchrest Stock I am finishing....

The Pac Nor barrel is chambered in 6mm Rem, with a one in 8 twist....

In a 24 inch 6mm Rem on a Model 700 long action, with the same twist... that rifle shoots the following load that is more than adequate for long long distance prairie dogs..

46 grains of RL 19, 115 grain Berger Match bullet... MV 3250 fps out of a 24 inch barrel...

can't wait to chronograph that load out of the 31 incher...

The Remington also shoots 75 grain Hornady HPs and V Maxes at about 3650 fps MV... which is a real tack driving load.. load on that one is 47.5 grains of H 414...should be intersting to see what the 31 inch barrel would add to that load also!

Either rifle will be a 600 yd ground hog, or deer getter...and probably further if the shooter can hit the game at that range with proper bullet placement...

6mm with 87Vmax have killed alot of dogs through my 700VLS...I love this gun!
My 257AI works pretty damn good too!

Small caliber..........fast twist.........22 A-Max...........6mmBR.

quote:

Originally posted by JustinL01:
DaMan,

People around here shoot a lot farther than 600 yards. A fellow I was talking to at the range has killed them at over twice that distance, showed me where he was shooting at, too. Believe me, I've walked from where he was shooting to where he shot, at it's a fur piece. A friend of mine has killed them out to 1000, too, there are places to shoot that long, just takes some looking around and figuring out where you need to get set up for a shot like that.

Not calling BS...... but where was that 600 yd. shot taken? Do you have fairly accurate GPS coordinates from that shot?

I've got a Pennsylvania friend who's an avid groundhog hunter and surveyer. It was HE who called BS!

Do you have GPS coordinates from that shot and direction to target?!!

TIA! Don