Whay would you consider the optimum barrel length for the 22-250? 24"..25"..or 26"?? Major rifle manufacture make them in both 24" and 26" Thanks in advance

Oldguns,

It totally depends on what you intend to do with the rifle.

If this will be a rifle used for say predator calling or really coyote hunting in general, I would say go with a good quality sporter with a 24" pipe.

They are quicker to get into action, much lighter for carrying in the field and plenty accurate for the intended job. ALso the 22-250 gets very good velocity out of a 24" barrel.

If this will be a longer range P. dog rifle, I would recommend the longer 26" barrel in a heavy varmint design. Not only will the longer barrel produce a bit more velocity, the added weight of the total rifle will reduce recoil.

Some may laugh at that comment but I have had more then one customer get a little flinchy after 500 rounds of 22-250 in a single day over a good town. No matter wht one thinks, even that recoil effects the brain after a few hundred rounds.

Also the longer barrel puts the muzzle blast farther away from you. Again a benefit when shooting several hundred rounds.

Hope this helps a little!

Good Shooting!!!

50

Oldguns: I saw a fellow just yesterday in an upscale Sport Shop in Bozeman, Montana dealing on a Remington Varmint Rifle in caliber 22-250 that had a 22" heavy barrel. It was a factory Rifle and he was sure interested. I do not know if he bought the Rifle but he handled and dealt on it for nearly an hour. I left before he did.
Having said that I do prefer the longer and the heavier barrels for my Varminting purposes. I have 22-250 Varminters right now with barrels in the following lengths: 26", 26" and 27 1/4". I had a Remington 700 Classic in 22-250 once that had a 24" barrel as I recall and I wish I would have kept that one!
There is also a tad bit of free velocity (the same amount of powder gives higher velocities) in the longer barrels for this round.
Now if a person wants a short barrel Rifle and a relatively high velocity then that is fine. Maybe a little unburnt powder and muzzle blast in the shorter barrels, but to each their own. I saw a guy at the range once with a 22-250 pistol! It shot well accuracy wise!
Fiftydriver: I agree with you on the "mini-flinches" even with modest recoiling Varminters like I use so often. I think it also has to do with pent up anticipation after hundreds of rounds and then the inevitable muzzle blast and slight recoil. I find myself on lond days afield after Colony Varmints that my triggers get "yanked" on occassion as opposed to what I want to do to them! Squueeeezzzeee!
I long ago quit using the 25/06 (or any other 25 caliber Rifles) for Colony Varminting for this very reason! Flinches do develop in me with them to a detrimental amount and effect on my shooting.
There have been some very special occassions in my Prairie Dogging career when I have spent the whole day on the Prairie from first light to sundown and virtually been firing all day. The only time I have needed to stop firing was to retrieve fresh (clean barreled) Rifles and to move my set ups! And on these special days it is easy to go through in excess of 500 centerfire rounds. And like you said that does something to me where every so often I find myself yanking a trigger! I try not to but it happens.
If I were to build another custom Varminter in 22-250 I would opt for a 27" heavy stainless barrel.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Lawdog,

I believe you are referring to one of my statements about the rifles being lighter to carry in the field with the shorter barrels.

To clearify my point, what rifles on the market today that are sporter weight rifles have a 26" barrel for the 22-250?

I can not think of a one. The only way to get a 26" barrel on a factory rifle is to get one of the heavy varmint rifles. Here it is not barrel weight but the overall increase in weight, anywhere from 9 to 12 lbs depending on the make. This was my point, not that 2" of barrel will save any felt weight.

In all honesty, in a calling rifle, 24" is a long barrel, a short 22" would be even better and much quicker to use. Also the 22-250 gets plenty of velocity out of even a 22" pipe to be useful past 300 yards if the shooter is up to it.

Only in a dedicated high volume varmint rifle would I recommend a 26 or longer pipe. For these rifles 28" is not to long in my mind.

But I believe the question was about factory rifles and again, I do not know of any 26" sporters in 22-250. Pack a 12 pound varmint rifle for a 15 mile coyote hunt and you will understand me liking sporters for this type of hunting!

Good Shooting!!!

50

Honestly to me this whole thing about tube length to me comes down to what feels the best given the weight that the tubes have.

I do not (anymore) put much if thought howlong the tubes is and what types of speeds it will give me. I've done enough tests on my own, to know how much difference there is between a short or a long tube in terms of speed. IMO there is not enough to care...

I've been a far gone yote caller for years,me and my partner take between 45-60 dogs.

I've found fit and balance to be the imporant part, not length. One of my favorite rigs is a 6/06 with a 4 weight Schneider cut to 25". Ready to go this rig is at about 10 pounds, it has never bothered me to hump around with this rig.

I've also used some flyweights--yep they are sexy and fun but I personally shoot the heavier rifles much better. I feel most will.

Lastly 50 driver, how do you hunt for those yotes? I was amazed with your comment about trekking 15 miles in a day for yotes. I've had a lot of big dog days and have never put in anything like that for miles. How do you hunt that you put in that many miles anyway bro?

Gotta run

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Varmint guy-what kind of a heavy barrel 22" Rem was the guy looking at, and at what shop in Boze.?

On your comment about the Classic 22/250-I had one years ago. I cracked the stock on a bruin hunt--I should of restocked that gun instead of selling it, oh the thought processes of youth! It was one fine gun. I passed on one in 220 Swift a year or so ago, I wish I had that one back also.

I do not shoot a lot of PD's any more,when I do I mostly use a 223. However for the chuck hunts I only shoot the 6's and above. I do a lot fo it with the 270, the 7 Mashburn Super and the 340. They will really rock a chuck...grins the smaller guns just kind of put them to sleep.

Gotta run

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

My main coyote and rockchuck rifle now is a M70 ss featherweight in 22-250, it has a 22'' tube. I mostly shoot off sticks and while it works great and is easy to carry I find that rifles that are a little more muzzle heavy balance better in the sticks. Furthermore, I've hunted coyotes with enough other rifles that I don't find heavier and longer rifles a disadvantage for calling dogs. I really don't think it makes that much difference in the field other then what you like and what gives you confidence.

I prefer the SS 26" heavy tube for best velocity and proper rifle balance. Can't say rifle weight ever was ever a problem with me. Most varmint hunters like to park their rig on a special spot and work from there. That is the purpose of owning a long range rig, the ability to reach the game at the longest range you intend to shoot.

Shooting more than 500 rounds in one day through a 22-250 would certainly make owning a rifle barrel business a must. That computes to about a round a minute all day long, that barrel would be so hot you could cook your dinner on it. Ain't no way I would abuse my favorite 22-250 like, I would practice selective shooting to prolong barrel life.

Mark R Dobrenski,

The area that we hunt is in central Montana, west of Great Falls and the section of land has a good population of dogs but is very difficult to hunt.

Cover is very limited and dogs are often out in the open and hard to get into action.

Usually we will spot and stalk a dog to get within a 1/2 mile or so and then set up to call them in.

There are several healthy packs in this area but they are some distance apart and the land owner does not like vehicles on the property. So we walk.

THe hunting is good enough to keep us doing it although I musst admit that for the last couple years my hunting technique has changed.

I walk less, and shoot farther. My latest yote hammer us a heavy barreled 6mm-284 which drives the 107 gr MK to 3500 fps and shoots in the 1/4 moa area out to 1000 yards on calm days of course.

Last season alone it scored one shot kills at 713, 715, 902 and 1055 yards.

This is not a calling rifle but it is a hell of a dog killer at dang near any range.

I just finished putting my latest yote hammer together, a 257 STW which has proven to safely drive the 100 gr Ballistic Tips to +3800 fps out of its 26" sporter barrel.

Being a smith, I really care little about barrel wear. I will easily get 1500-1800 rounds trough this barrel before it needs to be replaced, that may be the lifetime of the rifle as a yote gun anyway.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver,

My favorite calling rifle is a Ruger No 1B in .22 Hornet. Fast handling, accurate and plenty for any called in dog or cat going. Really nice thing about the Hornet is it's easy on the hides with the right load. My other two No 1B's(.223 Rem. and .25-06 Rem.) are the same except they are much harder on hides. Lawdog

Fiftydriver: Let me help "clearify" for you some of the 26" barrel, sporter weight, factory 22-250's.

I own one now with factory 26" sporter weight barrel and it is a wonderful and beautiful looking Rifle - its called a Ruger #1-B. Killed lots of Vermin with it!

The other factory 22-250 with sporter weight barrel that I owned but never shot was a Weatherby. I bought and sold this nifty Rifle just for profit. Weatherby offered their sporters with the option of 24" or 26" barrels up until recently I know for sure. I am pretty sure they still do. I have also owned both 24" and 26" Weatherbys in caliber 224 Weatherby. This caliber is virtually identical to the 22-250 Remigton. The Weatherby in caliber 224 I own now is a 24" barrel. Very sporter size (slim!) barrel on this and it comes with a fair amount of muzzle jump and noticeable muzzle blast when shot without ear protection! The heavier and longer barrels of course reduce this for ease of target assessment and reacquisition among the other attributes of longer heavier barrels.

The Smith and Wesson folks also at one time offered a sporter in 22-250 that had a 26" barrel. I think it was a model 1500.

One of my all time favorite Coyote calling Rifles is my Remington 40XB-KS in 220 Swift. It has a 27 1/4" heavy stainless barrel and really performs splendidly in the field while being used off of a tripod, improvised rest or with shooting sling. The length, weight and mass of this Rifle really swings smoothly on those Coyotes and other Varmints that won't hold still!

There is nothing wrong with light weight Varminters other than in the field, under field conditions, and/or when Varmints are moving a Hunter will have more hits with a longer/heavier barrel. The longer heavierbarreled Rifles simply hold steadier on improvised rests or bi-pods, they swing smoother and their mass seems to stay on target better during trigger pull! I have found the heavier Rifles have over the years helped me with a higher percentage of hits under tough situations than my lighter Varminters. Not much higher percentage (W.A.G. here - about 5 to 8% better) but enough to make it worth packing the extra weight to me. A great case in point is when I shoot running Jack Rabbits it is easier to make hits and its very evident that the more mass my armament has the more likely I am gonna coordinate trigger let off and smooth swing to make more hits in this running Rabbit shooting. Same for Fox, Coyote and field lions.

My Remington 40XB in caliber 22-250 (27 1/4" barrel) is set up and used primarily for Colony Varmints anymore these days.

I do though very often pack two 13+ pound Rifles out into colony Varmint fields and shoot them til dirty. But I seldom pack them more than a mile and a half at a time. I do this sometimes several times in a day. Its simply mind over matter - uncomfortable but tolerable for me. If one is packing a Rifle 15 miles a day then perhaps for that specific purpose a light weight Rifle would suffice. But there is no denying that under field conditions the heavier Rifle will be capable of more accurate fire. And for those of us that do Hunt Coyotes under more common circumstances than your 15 mile a day situations then I still prefer and would recommend the heavier Rifles.

The original posting did not mention the barrel weight at all.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

I have an older Savage 110 that I rebarreled with a Hart 26"
SS barrel. The muzzle diameter is about .9". Boy does it ever shoot. Groups in the .2's are common. Best shooting rifle I've ever owned. It weighs about 13lbs though. I'm in my late 60's and damn well need a golf cart to lug it around. I pretty well limit myself to using it at the bench. One thing about the weight is that it eats up any recoil you might experience. There are both good and bad elements to be considered in the long, heavy tube for sure.
Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Mark R Dobrenski: This was at the Powderhorn there in downtown Bozeman. My wife was outside honking the horn of the family Jeepster and I could only stay just 50 minutes or so that day. The Rifle was the Remington 700 LVSF and it was priced at $769.00 as I recall. By the way I did pick up while there one of the rare (1 of 1,000) Boone & Crockett Club, beautifully hard bound, reprinted copies of the original first books of Records Of North American Big Game. The original was published in 1932 and is just a simple yet cool and very rare book! I have a full set of the original B&C Records books all except the 1932 edition and now I have the next best thing for that year also! This re-print was done in 1988 and originally sold for $75.00. The Powderhorn had two of them marked down to $29.00 each and I bought one. I should have bought them both and made a buck or two on the other! The original 1932 B&C Records Books cost way more than a good Varmint Rifle and scope does these days! So I do not have that original as yet. I do a lot of book buying and reselling in addition to adding to my collection of old Hunting and shooting related books. There is money to be had there buying and selling books (and then re-spent on Rifles of course!).

I would love to see a 340 "bark" a high mountain Rock Chuck off of a slab of granite! I can only imagine the hang time and gore! I did one like that once with a 160 gr. 7mm Remington Magnum! Spiral City!

If I ever get together with you remind me to bring my photo of myself just above the timberline (somewhere in the Rocky Mountains) laying on my shooting mat with grass and rock slides for 360 degrees around me! Rock Chucks in all directions are cavorting among the slides and out in the grass at ranges from 100 to 750 yards! Heaven on earth! This picture is glorious in its colors and content. Especially so to a Varmint Hunter! It tells a complete story just in its composition (if I may I digress a moment about the things shown in this one picture?) Bausch & Lomb 9X35 Zephyrs (made in Rochester, New York of course), Remington 40XB-KS in 220 Swift with Leupold 6.5X20 laying on a tri-pod front and bunny ear rear sand bag, 100 round MTM ammo box open with nickel plated brass exposed along with a typed drop chart pasted on the inside of the lid, a Keb-Lab cactus and waterproof camoflaged shooting mat rolled out, with a Lazer range finder also in view! Above the vibrant green grass and multi colored tones of gray and silver slabs of granite is the bluest ski with the whitest puffs of clouds ever photographed!

Aaaaahhh!! I SWOON now just thinking of that photo.

Aaaaahhh!! Again I swoon! How long til spring?

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Varmintguy-next time you're in the valley look me up and we can talk abit about chucking. Tis one of my favorite pastimes-my best and this is the best summer to date is 457 of the rodents. I burned out the tube on my 7 that summer.



"GET TO THE HILL"



Dogz



ps I'd love to see you work over a colony with that 700 hvy 270 of yours-now that is a chuck rifle!!! I'd love to see that pic also.

Varmint guy,

I stand corrected by the factory rifles available in 26" barrels although in my opinion, there are still very few "good" options. I like the Ruger #1 rifles but as a smith much prefer a good bolt gun.

Weatherby's also have a good following and I will admit may be the strongest action in the market but for the money, give me a Rem 700 action, a Lilja barrel blank, a Holland Sig varmint stock and 6-7 hours of machining time and I will have a rifle that will run circles around any weatherby.

This is not opinion, this is what I have proven in my shop. Also, I must respectfully disagree with your comments about longer heavier barrels being more accurate. Perhaps you can shoot them better but a shorter stiffer barrel will always be more accurate then a longer barrel of same contour.

I guess my opinion of most factory rifles as a smith is that they are just a pile of parts, even though some do shoot very well, suprisingly so when you take them apsrt and see how poorly they are put together.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver: Have you ever used one of Darrell Hollands thick recoil lugs - I have a couple Rifles with them and they are supposed to be precision ground and they are not to expensive last time I bought one.
Now by Holland / Sig stocks are you talking about a stock that is made by Darrell Holland? I have not heard of this stock can you send me a web site or add in information?
I agree that it is often amazing how well some Rifles shoot when it is obvious the factory workers are doing the minimum and just putting them together as quick as can be gotten away with!
I have a couple of Lilja barrels and they sure seem to perk along! I was making a heavy Varmint Rifle in 17 MachIV several years ago and he had temporarily shut down his 17 barrel making as he was not happy about something - I was planning on using his as I had had good luck with other caliber Liljas. I had to go with Shilen that time.
Do you have a retail business here in Montana for custom barrel installations?
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

I only use Holland competition recoil lugs on all of the Remington, Savage and Sako(ones that apply) custom rifles for customers, there is simply no comparision with others and as you said they are priced right.

They are ground to perfection, at least from the ones I have used and measured, they are well under the 0.0002" range for consistant thickness.

Hollands Signature stocks are the best laminated stocks I have ever tried and the only ones I will use on Remington actions if the customer agrees. He only offers a sporter and a heavy varmint stock but they are extremely impressive.

He is very good to other gunsmiths as far as pricing goes, so for the besst quality and good prices, I will use his products as much as possible.

His Quick Discharge muzzle brake is also the best I have ever used and again the only brake I fully endorse

Here is his web address:

www.hollandguns.com

As far as the Lilja barrels go, he makes hands down the finest 17 calibers barrels in the market, I feel his other barrels are top list to but his 17s are amazing.

Good Shooting!!!!

50

Fiftyfriver: Thank you very much for the updated information on the Holland site and equipment. I have the Holland site in my favorites list now.

The stock looks great to me and I am going to look into it some more.

I met Darrell many years ago before he became so famous for the quality of his work. He lived in the far SW corner of Oregon state and used to travel to the large Gunshows in Oregon and Washington to display his wares! I always looked forward to seeing him and his new customized Rifles! Finally I bought one then another and you know how that goes..! Anyway after a few years the word spread on the quality of his work and the accuracy of his product. Then unfortunately he became so busy that he did not need to "hustle" his product around anymore. Good for him. I remember he used to work all week load up and jump in his rig and drive all night to get to a show. And then set up early Saturday morning and do the show. Then after the show on Sunday he would pack up his gear and drive all the way home (400-500 miles!) and go back to his Riflesmithing duties Monday morning! Again I am just thrilled he is so successful. Although I do miss seeing him at the Gunshows out on the coast!

One Gunshow day years ago I invited both Darrell and Steve Timm to go for lunch at a nearby restaurant. What a delight that was! Three long time Varminters and Gun nuts telling stories and sharing future plans!

Darrell is also quite an accomplished Varminter and Hunter himself. So he knows what flies in that regard.

I have a Darrell Holland built Remington 700 heavy Varminter in caliber 223 Remington. It shot a group on a dead calm day of .162"! That was for 5 shots at 100 yards! I always remembered that group and how I was trembling when I shot the 5th round downrange! Now don't get me wrong no one (especially me!) is gonna get a Remington 700 using a Varmint scope and Varmint bullets to shoot those size groups all the time or even frequently or anything close but I did it once with his Rifle and I was impressed! That Rifle now that I am talking about it looks like (referring to my shooting log) it shoots on average about .380" groups. Again that is sensational with a 6.5X20 scope and Nosler bullets! I only fire that Rifle at Varmints anymore, or for pre-Safari sight checks. That barrel is just to precious to be shooting paper all the time! That barrel by the way is 25" long and it produces accuracy that like I said, at times amazes me!

Which brings me to a brief attempt at rebuttal to your valid point regarding shorter barrels of same contour being more accurate! Yes I agree with you that when shooting from bench rest conditions (i.e. cement bench for a rest, 2 ounce trigger [or lighter], 45X scope [or greater!], neat row of wind flags leading from Rifle muzzle to intended target, free recoiling (and light recoil at that) and a target that is absolutely still and at an absolutely known distance, shooting at very close distances [100 & 200 yards], etc etc etc!) the shorter barrels are more accurate. But, not much more accurate than a comparable quality and diameter longer barrel. Maybe they would shoot groups smaller by .005" to .100'! Now I would (and do) trade that amount of probable accuracy for the certainty of a heavier barrel in the Varmint fields and shooting off of bipods, tripods, sagebrush, rocks and the like. Or for the added velocity of the longer barrel. And for the smoother swing of the more massive barrel. And for the ability of lets say a 2 pound heavier Rifle to be affected somewhat less by a less than perfect trigger pull! Remember and I am sure you know the heavier barrel will be affected less by the recoil of a particular cartridge and bullet weight than a lighter barrel (Rifle). Less recoil in the field helps ones Varminting in several ways. Remembering also all the 1,000 yard BR Rifles I have seen being fired have real long and real heavy barrels. Yes excellent and very acceptable accuracy can be obtained from long heavy barrels. I have a factory stock Remington 40XB-BR Rifle in caliber 6X47 that shoots amazingly well. It has a 24" barrel and Varmints fall at amazing distances (500 - 575 yards!) to it. I have a custom 6mm Remington BR built on an XP-100 action with a 26 1/2" Hart barrel that has shot groups as small as .208" (for 5 shots at 100 yards) and again this is using Varmint bullets and a Varmint scope. These Rifles are then considered by me to be more than adequate accuracy wise for what I need. Yes if I cut a few inches off of each of those barrels I might increase their accuracy by a tad or a touch or a tiny amount but I think I will stay with the benefits of the longer more massive barrels. I am open to any argument that could convince me otherwise and for sure I have never intentionally tested a particular Rifle/barrel by shortening it and comparing the shorter barrels accuracy with when the barrel was longer. I wish I could afford to do that as it would be very interesting! Please consider my impressions and W.A.G.'s (wild assed guesses) in this regard and give me your impressions.

Thanks again for the info on the Holland site - I should have thought to look on the web search for him myself.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

What you say about the benefits of the heavier longer barrel are of course true.

And I also agree that it would be hard to see the accuracy advantage of the shorter barrel over the longer one.

I have gotten into the world of extreme range shooting over the last seven years or so and have learned alot from experimenting with different rounds and bullets and barrels.

I have come to really admire the high B.C. bullets such as the Hornady A-Max bullets(at velocities under 3300 fps) and the Sierra Matchking bullets.

It is surprising to me how many shooters feel that velocity is the holy grail in long range shooting. If one is shooting a 40-55 gr 22 caliber bullet or a 55-70 gr 6mm or a 75-87 gr 257 bullet out to say 500 yards, velocity is pretty important.

To me if I can get a VLD designed bullet to 2800-3000 fps it will be very useful at shorter extreme ranges(600-800 yards).

If I can drive a VLD to 3000-3200 fps it will easily reach out to the 800-1000 yard range consistanly in relatively calm weather.

Take a VLD and drive them to the 3200-+3400 fps and you get some real performance at +1000 yards IF the bullets will handle the strain of the launch.

Still these velocities are relatively mild compared to most of the top list modern varmint rounds, hell a 223 will drive a 55 gr Ballistic Tip to 3200-3300 fps depending on barrel length.

It seems to me that the stiffness of the barrel really comes into play when using these VLD bullets. Also, the faster you drive them the more barrel stiffness is a factor. Let me explain.

These long bullets are pretty heavy for caliber, such as the 107gr in 6mm, 140 to 155 gr in 6.5mm, 180 gr in 7mm, 2220-240 gr in 308 and 300 gr in 338.

As a result, the rifling twist must also be pretty quick.

When we drive these long bullets down a fast twist barrel at good velocites, it will tend to twist the barrel if the barrel is not stiff enough to resist. Kind of like wringing out a wet towel to a very slight degree.

The stiffer the barrel, the less this happens and the more consistant the velocity and trajectory will be. This is another area where I have found fluting to help.

The longer the barrel, the more velocity we churn up the more this happens with VLD bullets, that is why I like heavy barrels or fluted barrels on medium contour barrels. Just seems to help with this and make grouping more consistant.

There is also another theory starting up that each rifle has an optimum barrel length for accuracy. The simple reasoning is that each rifle has a specific vibration pattern which will react best to a certain barrel length to produce top accuracy.

I have read two tests on this theory using several rifles, one dramatically improved at a certain barrel length, a couple were mildly improved and some did not improve at all.

The testing involved cutting barrels back from starting at 26", 1/16" at a time and tested at each length.

It makes interesting reading but I am not totally convinced it has usefulness. No customer on the planet wants a 22-250 Ack Imp cut back to 20".

As far as Mr. Holland goes, I feel he is one of the most gifted machinists and shooters/hunters of his time. I have talked with him several times and have been fortunate to take courses that he offers.

My goals are to send rifles out of my shop that are the quality of the rifles he builds. If I can do that, I feel I will do very well in the business.

Good Shooting!!

50

I look at barrel length as it relates to hunting situations. When I go calling whether it be for coyote , fox or bobcats I want a short fast handling weapon. I would venture to say that most of my calling shots are well within 50-75 yards. Even when I lived out west and hunted the desert areas my shots were relatively close.

When I shoot ground SQ. or goround hoggs and shooting from a fixed position and at longer ranges I opt for the heavier barrel and often times longer barrel. I have never worried abot the lenght of my barrel and loss of velocity.

Fiftydriver: Thank you for your explanation and ideas on the barrel stiffness and VLD's. I made a copy of your posting and am saving it.
Thanks again for sharing and imparting your experiences.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy