I am looking to buy a new 22-250 calibre rifle for varmint/small game hunting and of course the occasional target shoots at the range. I have narrowed down the choice to three models: Weatherby’s Mark V Super VarmintMaster; Remington’s 700 VS SF II and the Kimber 84M Varmint. I have also considered the Savage 12 Series Varmint, but for some other reason I cannot see myself shooting a Savage. The rifle must not only be a “friend†for life, but good looking and most importantly, accurate.

For me the Kimber is a great looking rifle, but I have seen a number of bad reports on other forums from guys complaining of poor chamber dimensions, headspace problems and disappointing accuracy. Many have sent their rifles back to Kimber, without much of an improvement afterwards. I think the Weatherbys have better quality parts (button-rifled Kriegler barrels) than the Remingtons, but is there really much of a difference when it comes to performance, accuracy and barrel life?

If there are forum members that have handled or shoot all three rifles, I would appreciate your comments on the pro’s and con’s of each of the models listed above. That can help me to make a decision on way or the other.

Thanks guys for your help.

I am by no means an expert, but my gun smith told me that the Krieger barrels were cut rifling barrels. I hope they are cut rifling. I just paid $280 for one. Plus a whole bunch more to have it installed.

I also have a Kimber Long Master Classic in 223 Remington. I am very satisfied with the rifle. It is accurate, good looking, and very fast handling. I just wish it was left handed. Tom.

Don't knock the Savages. They may not be the prettiest, probably the ugliest, but will outshoot most right out of the box. Savage puts their money where it belongs,,,in the barrels. All barrels are button rifled. Every barrel is put on with that ugly barrel nut but each has a no go gauge used for proper chambering. I have a Savage bull barrel 223 and it will out shoot my Custon Broughton 223. With the new Accu-triggers, they are also a pleasure to shoot and tune.

I can't say anything bad about the other two brands but I am very pleased with my model 700 varmint rifles. I have one in 6mm remington and a 222. Both will bump holes with handloads at 100 yards. I won't say the others wouldn't do it as well but I know mine will. I like the adjustability of the 700 trigger.

My Kimber 84 varmint in 204 is a great looking and handling rifle and shoots in the 2's and 3's with a variety of handloads.
Although Savage is a little rough ALL of the 8 or 10 purchased by myself and friends in the last year have been great shooters. Plus you can change barrels, including several match grade, by yourself.
Larry

I have shot several Kimbers and while the accuracy was decent, it certainly not what I would accept for a rifle of that price. Never shot the Weatherby. I have owned several Remingtons and while they all shot nicely, they never shot as tight of groups as my Savages did. Check out the Low Profile Varminter. Nice looking and extremely accurate. The Long Range Precision Varminter comes with a HS stock and darn near full bull barrel. Check out Collegekidandy's post on his load development.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5411043/m/974100637

quote:

Originally posted by SA Reloader:
I have also considered the Savage 12 Series Varmint, but for some other reason I cannot see myself shooting a Savage. The rifle must not only be a “friend†for life, but good looking and most importantly, accurate.
Thanks guys for your help.

quote:

Originally posted by ChiefR53:
Although Savage is a little rough...
Larry

Not good looking?
Rough?
You must be looking at the bargain basement WalMart plastic stocked ones.
How about a Savage 12VBSS with a laminated stock?

http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm


Or a 12 Long Range Precision Varminter with an HS Precision stock?

http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm

You guys need to get out and look more before you decide…

Rough? I love the way mine looks!

Model 12 LP V .223

I love my Kimber. From what I have seen, most of the guys complaining about the quality are expecting benchrest accuracy out of a 5.75lb gun. I've had no problems with my Kimber for the last 3 years. Sorry though, I don't have any experience with the Weatherby, but I have a couple of Remingtons (not the model in question) and I enjoy shooting and carrying them all. The Remingtons I've shot all shoot very well.

As far as the Savage, I think that my next gun will be a Savage (or maybe a Stevens), but someone has a quote as part of their signature "Life is too short to hunt with and ugly gun" Who cares how good it shoots if you don't like to carry it. Go and handle them all, pick the one you like most and enjoy!

Good Luck.

perhaps i having bought a savage as my first rifle, associate the barrel nut as beautiful b/c it's mentally associated in my mind with beautiful accuracy. i love my savages as much as anything i've ever owned and i have three that will be with me for life right now and a couple more to join soon. they look nice to me. the weatherby's are about the nicest rifles i've seen straight out of the box, not as accurate as savages on average but very very nice and i've not found a weatherby that won't have a couple of loads it'll shoot very very accurately, it's just that my savages shoot nearly everything very very accurately.

I personally love my Remington Model 700 VS in .22-250. I put a Leopald 6.5-20x VariVIII scope on it, and it's my choice when I'm sitting in a field keeping the ground hog population in check. It's not so nice to carry for long distances, but it's not unbearable there, either. Shoots great with just about anything I tried to put through it, may try a few different loads this year, though, not that I need to, just because.

You should have bought the Customized Remington 22-250 I had in the classifieds. Sold it last week.

I have (had) two Remington 22-250's. I am not sure what the price difference is between Rem. and Kimber, but if it is substantial, I'd go Remington. Both of mine were surprisingly accurate. I like a very light trigger on my varmint rifles, and a Timney did the job well.

I had a Savage VLP 204, and sold it last year.Thinking that I needed another 204 this year I bought a Remington SPS Varmint 204.I should have bought another Savage, the Remington SPS does not shoot even close to my old Savage VLP.

If you want something that shoots great and looks great maybe you should check out the Coopers? I have taken a number of Kimbers on trade ins because the owners weren't happy with them for various reasons.

I know the Coopers are good, but I don't like the single action. I want a 4/5 round magazine capacity. Why does Cooper don't have this option available? I think their sales would double if they build a 22-250 with a magazine capacity of more than one round. I for one would be a keep buyer and I know of a few others too.

Perhaps the Weatherby Mark V Accumark is a good rifle to settle the issue. I don't know, your guys don't make the decision any easier.

Cooper does make a rifle with a magazine. I forget what the model is but checkout their website cooperfirearms

I takes close to a year to get a Cooper, if you order it. I do not think they are concerned with increasing sales. Also being a single shot normally increases accuracy. Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by SA Reloader:
I know the Coopers are good, but I don't like the single action. I want a 4/5 round magazine capacity. Why does Cooper don't have this option available? I think their sales would double if they build a 22-250 with a magazine capacity of more than one round. I for one would be a keep buyer and I know of a few others too.

Perhaps the Weatherby Mark V Accumark is a good rifle to settle the issue.
I don't know, your guys don't make the decision any easier.

Accumark rifles are good shooting guns, to be sure, BUT, and it’s a big but, a varmint rig should be if nothing else, ACCURATE. A VARMINT RIFLE IS A TOOL.
Looks are ONLY a bonus. But the rifle has to SHOOT first.

Coopers are very, very nice looking guns, but for the money difference between a SAVAGE and a COOPER (@$1298 entry level), you can have four to five hundred dollars to buy a MUCH better scope. Not to mention Cooper's three-hundred-and-sixty-five-day wait.

I have seen VERY expensive rifles put to shame by a $400 Savage.
It’s hard to argue with performance. How much hard earned money you spend on a rifle only impresses people at the country club.

I wondered how you came to the three choices you listed in the first place?
Did someone at a gunshop recommend them? Have you actually shot one of each?
Do your friends own these?
You never said how you came about this decision, I was just curious.

Here is what I was talking about. 4+1 capacity; heavy, fluted and button rifled barrel; laminated stock,
all for $518 less than the Cooper. And you don't even have to wait a WHOLE FREAKING YEAR.

Savage 12BVSS $780

If for some reason you are set on a specific make or model or if it's several, flip a coin, go buy it and be happy.

Don’t be surprised when the guy next to you outshoots you with his UGLY, ROUGH and CHEAP Savage…

quote:

Originally posted by HEAD0001:
I am by no means an expert, but my gun smith told me that the Krieger barrels were cut rifling barrels. I hope they are cut rifling. I just paid $280 for one. Plus a whole bunch more to have it installed.

I also have a Kimber Long Master Classic in 223 Remington. I am very satisfied with the rifle. It is accurate, good looking, and very fast handling. I just wish it was left handed. Tom.

Weatherby uses Krieger Criterion bbls for these rifles. Criterion bbls from Krieger are button rifled.

I've not heard of any troubles with the Kimber Varmint rifles, mostly it's been the Montana's. More than a few folks haveing difficulty shooting a 6.5# all-up rifle, and Kimber has had their share of faults with these rifles as well. Overall the Kimber varmint rifles are very good though.

Cooper is currently only producing the repeaters in the '06 based cartriges.

I agree, accuracy is the first thing to look for in a varmint rifle. However, I will be surprised if there are still manufacturers out there today whose rifles aren’t capable of shooting sub MOA groups with good ammunition. Surely they would not be in business anymore if their rifles continuously under perform. Although this might be true of all the major manufactures, it still comforts me a lot to hear from you guys who actually own one or more of these rifles. According to the sale reps, you get what you pay for (perhaps their margins on the more expensive guns are higher, so they would tell you that, wouldn’t they?). I prefer to learn from guys with first hand knowledge of the particular models. I have not had the opportunity to shoot with any of them, that’s why I posted the question.

Flippy, I do not take issue with the Savage and its accuracy. I have only read positive reviews on their varmint rifles. I guess it’s a personal thing…you like the girl with the dark eyes; I prefer the one with the blue eyes. There’s nothing right or wrong with that, at least in my view.

How did I decide on the three models....from surfing the internet and reading reviews in hunting/gun magazines.

Thanks for the valuable input so far. I lean towards the Weatherby, although the Kimber is again in the reckoning. I thought I would not take a change with a Kimber (after reading less favourable posts), but after reading Horse1’s post, I am in doubt again. I do not want to flip a coin, but rather take an informed decision. That’s more difficult than what I initially anticipated.

O well, that's the nice thing of competition amongs different manufactures. We can't really complain, can we?

There is a saying among horsemen: "A good horse is never a bad color." I still own three horses and I can say for sure that is the truth.

The corollary to this is, a good varmint rifle is never ugly. I almost didn't buy my Savage LRPV because I like blued barrels and wood stocks. What a mistake that would have been. The LRPV has a Kevlar stock, a stainless barrel that initially looks only slightly smaller than the stacks on a Kenworth, and the target accu-trigger which is the best trigger ever put in a factory rifle (better than most custom after market triggers). In that ugly stock is a big aluminum bedding block as long as the reciever that is the only thing that touches the receiver besides your finger on the trigger (with a 6 oz pull). The barrel doesn't touch anything but the receiver.

The rifle is completely indifferent to the weather. You can drag it through the woods, lay it over a fallen tree and drill your choice of eyes in a ground hog or coyote at 200 yards if you do your part.

Is it really "that" accurate? Oh yeah! It shoots groups that make your knees weak. It isn't hard to put 5 rounds of 75g A-MAX into a .2" group at 100 yards with a reasonable handload. It is actually hard to find a load that will shoot a group as large as 1 MOA.

One local rather high end gun shop owner says flat out it is the most accurate varmint rifle he sells, and he sells lots of tricked out good looking rifles that cost 2X to 3X as much.

I thought it was ugly as a mud fence when I first saw it, and still thought so when I bought it and brought it home, but having shot it, I think it is flat beautiful!

Did I mention I love hitting what I aim at?

Fitch

Well you sound set on something besides a savage, can't argue with that but another real satisfied savage varmint shooter. Bought this one new and did a skim bed job around the pillars, clipped a coil off the trigger spring to bring it down to 1 1/2#. Everything else is box stock, scoped it and started working up loads. It shoots 3 shot 100yd groups with ten group averages of .248, joy to shoot and always popular at the gunshops range where I shoot. Change barrels and bolt faces in under 30 minutes in your gunroom. I guess its ugly as a mud fence....but its outshot many a pretty gun.....and sure cost a lot less......

SA Reloader, like I said:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

If for some reason you are set on a specific make or model or if it's several, flip a coin, go buy it and be happy.

Don’t be surprised when the guy next to you outshoots you with his UGLY, ROUGH and CHEAP Savage…

quote:

Originally posted by 12FVSS260:
I guess its ugly as a mud fence....but its outshot many a pretty gun.....and sure cost a lot less......

Yes that is one UGLY gun...
And one UGLY group...

ROFLMAO

If youa are looking for a more affordable option from weatherby, look at the vanguard sub moa varminter- they are guaranteed to shoot less than an inch- but most targets I have seen are much better than that w/ factory loads. It has a good stock on it, not one of those plastic clunkers like the other vanguards. If you bought one of those, you could put a nice peice of glass on it for less than the SuperVarmintMaster- and still have one handy rifle.
Also, the new savage model 10 with the camo coating is one lethal looking little rig.

I have recently purchased another 22/250 after selling my vssf a couple of years ago........................I really wanted the Longmaster VT Kimber, but after having a bad experience wit ha Montana in .308 (which I returned for Sako 7mm STW) I purchased a sako 75 varmint on closeout..........I also put on layaway another sako Varmint in .243 (sold my rem 700 .243)

What made me pick two sako varmints up is that my friend also purchased a .243 75 varmint with set trigger and the thing shoots ragged holes with both 55gr and 70 gr pills.

Also I feel the sakos are made very well, I have always wondeered what all the fuss was about with sakos

Anyway maybe you could find a sako 75 Vramint on closeout as they make way for the newer 85 series................in a varmint gun it wont matter if its not CRF

My Weatherby Vanguard .270win Rocks! 1/2" or less groups @ 100. A MArk 5 would be a more rock solid action, 6 lugs vs 2.

I also have a Kimber Pro Varmint in .204, seen here at the range with a Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16 x 40:





This is the group I shot with Hornady factory 32gr: - squares are 1/4 inch






And this is the group I shot (load still needs a bit of fine tuning) with the 39gr Sierra Blitzking and 27.7grs H4895 @ 3910fps: squares are 1/4 inch




I too read items on the Internet about how quality varies with the Kimber, but I also heard plenty of first hand accounts about how accurate they were. I guess the proof of this is in the above groups.


Michael.

Nice rifle,,like my Pro Varmin 22-250

You buyin' it to look at or shoot? SAVAGE will be hard to beat, out of the box and to the range! Pillar bedded and free-floated from the factory, not to mention the barrels are button rifled never having a hammer forging machine beat the hell out of a piece of metal.........and if you get one .204, stoke it with 27.5 grains of Accurate 2520 and the 39 grain Sierras........all you need to know about loading for a .204! Friend of mine bought a COOPER this spring, I gave him powder and bullets and told him what to do........it was in the .2's and .3's also but my SAVAGE VLP with 4000 rounds down the tube still does that and that is the same rifle that did the .440" @ 500 yards two years ago. Shooting for effects........SAVAGE out of the box! GHD

I never discuss "beauty" and Savage rifles in the same conversation! That said, I own six Savage/Syevens rifles, for their accuracy.
My concern for your choices is rate of twist. Remington's is 1in14 which limits your bullet choice to 55gr. I don't know about Wby. or Kimber. The Savage 22-250 in all models is 1in12 which gives you up to 63gr and in some particular rifles 69gr. My 12fv shoots 60gr V-max very accurately.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At present I own 8savage made rifles not counting an old Mod. 340. As has been said the out of the box repeatability is just fine. My 12BVSS-S has great repeatability. I am probably the only one on earth that has had and still has at times a POS accutrigger

Having gone through this thread it was a little surprising not to have even seen a mention of the Ruger Varmint.

Two of my relatives and I each have one : a .223, a 22-250 and a .243. To me the laminated stock is attractive. All three are deadly accurate and at 400 PLUS yards the 22-250 and .243 are outstanding. The triggers may not be the best but are not all bad depending how good you are at SQUEEZE. roger

Here's my ugly Savage RBLP 6mm ackley varmint Rifle with a couple 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by SA Reloader:
Flippy, I do not take issue with the Savage and its accuracy. I have only read positive reviews on their varmint rifles. I guess it’s a personal thing…you like the girl with the dark eyes; I prefer the one with the blue eyes. There’s nothing right or wrong with that, at least in my view.

Yes, I would rather have Fireball10X’s “ugly†dark-eyed Savage, (with it’s absolutely terrible groups) than Kiwiwildcat’s $1300 blue-eyed Kimber (with it’s amazing groups).

If that is how you measure “desirable,†Lord help you.
I prefer a beautiful girl, with a great personality whatever her eye color.
You can’t honestly tell me side by side, all things being equal, you would prefer the Kimber.

Some people will buy anything called “exclusive†if you price it high enough
- OR -
if you make them wait long enough (Cooper)…

I sold a rem 700 VSSF 22-250 to build the savage 6mm ackley because I wanted to shoot farther than a 22-250.The rem shot 1/2 inch at 100 but the savage shoots a tattered hole if i do my part,here's a group from a cheap stevens 200 in 243 that costs less than 300 bucks.

And I have a couple CZS that shoot great one is a 204 varmint less than 500 here's a couple groups from it.

I like the comment about a good horse is any color.

I like Anschutz, Remington, Steyr-Mannlicher, Ruger, Sako, Savage, Blaser, Sauer, Heym, Kimbers, Coopers, Weatherbys, and pretty much any accurate rifle that doesn't have the words Winchester on it.

Never had a modern Winchester that was worth a shit, classic, pre-64, post-64, push feed, claw extractor, or any other.

I recon the ideal varmint rifle depends on what the use is going to be. The just figuring out personal preferences and putting it all together.

I always wanted a Ruger #1 in the 220 Swift and 6mm BR. I have had wierd luck with #1 rifles, about half have been accurate and half have not.

I really feel bad that nobody mentioned my personal favorite...It's not much as a factory rifle, but depending on what "varmint hunting" means, several models are available. The M98 Mauser is my choice. Yes, I have a Savage, and used to carry an M340 .222. The Mauser is imported by Remington, and available in several interesting calibers.
If your target is small enough, a .25" is what's needed, and my M700V .222 with 32x works just fine. My rebarrelled Savage M110, without barrel-nut(for looks, rather than effect) in .220 Swift Improved will get 'er done.
Have fun,
Gene

i have never been much on weatherby rifles. a buddy of mine bought one of those super varmint rifles in 22-250. it really shoots well. we killed a few groundhogs with it. i was impressed, except the saftey was like something off a toy.