Hey Joel, I kind of let this thread rest for a while but there has been alot going on. So far to date I've had {within the last 3 1/2 months} multiple X-rays, 3- CT scans, my 3rd MRI just today, a bone scan, ceretek scan, blood work several times, vertebroplasty, and four epidural injections. Injury occurred on 8-24-08, had vertebroplasty 9-26-08, four epidural injections 10-24-08, recieved fitted custom backbrace 12-9-08, electromyography & nerve conduction velocity test 12-23-08, and was told today that fusion of T12-L1 was most likely in my very near future. As a result of the vertebroplasty some of the barium cement leaked into the disc area of T12-L1 and has been causing me some havoc. The pain has been immense. My doc is now suggesting fusion surgery to overcome this. Does all this seem SOP. The report concerning the EMG & NCV tests:
1. Evidense of bilateral lumbo-sacral radiculopathy, which is severe at the L1 level and mild at the L5-S1 level.
2. No evidence of Peripheral Neuropathy.
3. Lumbago.
4. Leg Pain.
5. Parasthesia.
Heck I don't even know what most of this means but it's funny how quickly one learns.
Would the fusion surgery keep the barium cement in the disc space from bothering me- forever?
Or is there a better route to follow? If disc replacement were an option could the cement be removed to accomendate it?
These are some of the questions I have and would appreciate anyones opinion on this. I will see orthopedic surgeon next week to go over todays bloodwork and MRI. Again any advice is greatly appreciated. Rodney.

Joel/AK, If I remember correctly there is a procedure where a needle can be inserted into the disc to remove a very small amount of the "jelly" inside shrinking the disc and possibly giving some relief to the nerve. L3-L4-L5 is alot to fuse together, then there is doner discs and also artificial disc replacement, but I'm guessing niether are very common because I never hear of anybody having this done. In my research I'll keep you all in mind and see what I can find. This website was given to me by a good friend here on AR, you might check it out: www.getadr.com Good Luck, Rodney.

Rodney, I'm with you. I dont understand half the crap the docs are feeding us.

I have learned pretty damn fast how to read a MRI though

We had 3 doctors tell us 3 different things. Its frustrating and confusing. All I care about is getting her fixed (similiar to you want to get fixed).

Wish I could help you man, a back problem is no fun and wouldnt wish it on an enemy.

I hope you dont think I was trying to compare my ole lady and you. I wasnt. If it came over that way I apoloigize.

Joel I was just glad you put some life back into this thread. Now if we could get some of the others to contribute some advice/suggestions that would be great. Meanwhile it will be the endless internet searches for unanswered questions. I'm also thinking about a second opinion but I don't want to piss-off my doctor by making him think I'm second guessing him. Rodney.

One thing I tried for my wife this weekend was get to borrow a "back stretcher" for her. In theory, it sounded good. she didnt like it.

A little history of me. For years I have woken up with back pain. usually it takes about an hour for me to feel normal. After a good hot shower and a while of walking around I feel human. I have been using this contraption since sunday and for the last 2 days when I woke up, I could actually stand erect with no pain when I woke up.

Man, it was great.

Get a second opinion for your problem. we let my wifes issue go on to long, now its to the serious point. her primary specialist is pissed but screw him. in august, she was pretty much paralized, he was all over it. now, he's like, take 2 asperin and call me in 2 weeks. WTF???? no quality of life in that thinking.

He's supposed to be one of the top neuro guys in the state.

heres some sites my wife was looking through.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/heal...HD99999/PAGE=HD00017

http://www.back.com/

Oh and It was also brought up about removing the jelly (if you will) or even cutting off the "tit" thats protruding into her nerve column.

IMO, its a band aid on the problem. My dad had a disc replacement and it worked great for him. Her doc is afraid cuz of the amount of damage done, goes along with the fusion. Thats alot of discs, for a 35 year old gal, way to much time left not to have mobility in her back.

If I hear anything new from these new doctors, I'll let you know.

My problem now seems that the barium cement that leaked from the vertebrae {during the vertebroplasty procedure} into the disc space is causing the pain. The doctor I'm seeing now is suggesting fusion of the two vertebrae to fix this problem. He also specializes in fusion. What bothers me is there is nothing wrong with the disc just that there is that cement in that space causing all kinds of problems. Looking back which is not healthy for me to do concerning this, but I believe I would have been better off without the vertebroplasty as the bone would have most likely almost healed by now and I wouldn't be looking at fusion surgery and all the risks with that if it were not for the cement that leaked into the disc space. Never even got to enjoy the use of the hunting license I bought this year-GEEZ. Rodney.

Well here I go! Going in on Monday morning to have a fusion of T12-L1-L2, Doc needs to do the three together as the screws will not do well in L1 with the cement. Anyway here is a couple images showing the leak into the disc space.





I held these up to a window for the light and got some background scenery from my back yard. Rodney.

Hang in there! Hope all goes well!

Hey Rodney, wish you the best. Hope all comes out OK.

We found out my wife is screwed. Besides all the herniated disks, L3/L4 and L4/L5 vertabrea are worn down and no ligaments holding them together. When I say worn down, I mean the 2 pieces of bone that connect with the next vertabrea down are pretty much gone.

Plus with the "pad" that tits out from the disk is also screwed. Her nerve from L4 is dead going down her left leg.

2 doctors dont want to do surgery right now due to the extent of damage. Shes going to a nutritionalist/pt doctor to help her strenghten her back +with a back brace that supports her lumbar region. she also has a lifetime supply of hydrocodone to make her day-to-day bearable.

At 35 and in great health, we are hoping these steps help her.

Good luck and god speed on your surgery and I hope you have a fast recovery.

Good Luck Rodney...

guys, remember, I am a fussion survivor... it just takes time.

Joel - its not a huge long flight down here, and we have some of the best backdocs in the world

Trust me jeffe, that option isnt off the table (besides then I could take care of the 458AR build I'm gonna do, they call that multitasking ).

Right now she wants to run with the non-surgery method, her latest MRI shows a tad of imrovement so its giving us hope.

Her business is a pro/con type of thing. as a taxidermist it can be physical but luckily she hires cheap help (me) for the heavy lifting.

we will see.

for humor's sake..

if you are ever coming to houston,best do it between jan 1 and march 1...thats the season we call ////
not hot!!!!

I greatly appreciate the support given here and I am thinking of ya'll Joel and Praying and wishing only the best. Originally I started this topic of discussion out of selfish desperation not being able to sleep and wanting to vent in hopes there would be answers to questions not even thought of yet. The whole situation just wasn't handled very well from the beginning and I didn't have the knowledge to make educated decisions, in saying that, it is not healthy to look back and dwell as these are the cards I have been dealt and just need to keep trudging forward. The fusion will stabilize the damaged vertibrae and hopefully keep the displaced material from causing anymore havoc rubbing around in the disc space. Well thats the plan. Another alternative is to go through the front possibly collapsing a lung and removing a volume of innards to access the vertebrae to remove the cement in the disc space. We'll go with the fusion first and then if the cement is still a problem then the alternative idea will most likely become reality.
Joel, I've had just about every kind of hydrocodone from 5-500, 7.5-200, 10-650, and then was told to take two 10-325s which did not ease the pain just made it where if I was exhausted enough I would finally sleep. Later I was introduced to 15mg ms contin or morphine which helped but did not agree with me. Nothing helped until finally the doc wrote out a prescription for neurontin also called gabapentin 300mg which is used to treat spinal injury nerve pain and also to treat seizures associated with epilepsy. Although there is always pain the gabapentin seems to have made things more bearable, so I thought it definiatly worth mentioning. I've been around ole Jeffeosso to know that there is recovery and some normalcy to life in the near future as from his activities I would have never thought he had previous problems. So at this moment I just want to get Monday behind me and move to the next step- recovery. Thanks Guys, Rodney.

You doing okay bubba? on a PCA?

I just called Rodney ..

he says "The Doctor's say it was a success, but I am too doped up to know. .... I was up and walking, SOME, the first night"

keep him in your thoughts, brothers

Hope you are doing better Rodney! Got ya in my thoughts and prayers!

I'm definitly thinking of him.

Rodney, if you can focus and read this, get well and I hope you have a speedy recovery.

Back injuries are nothing to laugh at.

I'm home and very thankful for the "AR" support group here. Gotta say that was one bad hangover from the cocktail they gave me. After getting inside Doc determined that the bad vertebrae would support screws and was able to attatch it to the rods along with T12 and L2. Pain level right now just one week after is about the same as before, but with a difference in that there is some bruising and a fair sized wound in healing. Forgot to mention that the bone used for the grafting came from my hip so there is some additional soreness and another wound to heal. Now it is time for the healing and it's very important not to bend, twist or attempt to lift much of anything. All in all I think I'm getting along very well and if I take it very carefully for the next several months then the procedure will have been a success. Rodney.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney H.{500Jeffery}:
Hey Joel, I kind of let this thread rest for a while but there has been alot going on. So far to date I've had {within the last 3 1/2 months} multiple X-rays, 3- CT scans, my 3rd MRI just today, a bone scan, ceretek scan, blood work several times, vertebroplasty, and four epidural injections. Injury occurred on 8-24-08, had vertebroplasty 9-26-08, four epidural injections 10-24-08, recieved fitted custom backbrace 12-9-08, electromyography & nerve conduction velocity test 12-23-08, and was told today that fusion of T12-L1 was most likely in my very near future. As a result of the vertebroplasty some of the barium cement leaked into the disc area of T12-L1 and has been causing me some havoc. The pain has been immense. My doc is now suggesting fusion surgery to overcome this. Does all this seem SOP. The report concerning the EMG & NCV tests:
1. Evidense of bilateral lumbo-sacral radiculopathy, which is severe at the L1 level and mild at the L5-S1 level.
2. No evidence of Peripheral Neuropathy.
3. Lumbago.
4. Leg Pain.
5. Parasthesia.
Heck I don't even know what most of this means but it's funny how quickly one learns.
Would the fusion surgery keep the barium cement in the disc space from bothering me- forever?
Or is there a better route to follow? If disc replacement were an option could the cement be removed to accomendate it?
These are some of the questions I have and would appreciate anyones opinion on this. I will see orthopedic surgeon next week to go over todays bloodwork and MRI. Again any advice is greatly appreciated. Rodney.

Well, Rodney, I sincerely hope the best for you and I mean that sincerely. I see so many patients just like you and since I'm not one to candy coat anything, the probability of permanency of symptoms in your case is 51% or more. It appears that you waited about 4 weeks or so from DOI to surgery. With time based experience with hundreds of patients just like you, those who did not opt for surgery are virtually pain free within about 3 months w/o surgery, utilizing conservative measures. Those who have had surgery for a compression fx usually wind up getting multiple surgeries and have permanent, chronic pain to some degree. Multi-level fusions work for some but most patients go permanent for pain.

I wish you all the luck.

Thanks for responding Doc, this whole thing was handled poorly from the beginning including my own actions not going to the ER, the initial office visit and the first Doc sitting on the X-rays for over 3 weeks and not too mention the hurricane. All bad timing. Missed an entire fall hunting season. But I Got to say for some reason my humer and spirits are good. Maybe if I'm up to it later this spring I'll go whack a hog and that bring great chear! Rodney.

quote:

I Got to say for some reason my humer and spirits are good.

Keith

Had a follow-up visit with Doc today. He said all was looking good so far and everything appeared to be where it's supposed to be. I asked him about the bone graft and he said that it was too early to see any results right now, but should see great improvement in about three months. Just have to take it easy for the next several months and all should be well. Rodney.

Remember - don't do anything.. just heal!

Great news, Rodney! Do like Jeffe says, "Just Heal"!

The toughest part now is fighting off restlessness, not really so much boredom. Doc is a good guy we finnally hit it off really well a few visits ago, turns out he is quite the hunter and has good taste in firearms. It'll be fine. Rodney.

Rodney,
At some point they will probably have you doing some PT. The very best thing you can do ,when you get to that point, is strengthen your abs. The more core strength you have, the less likely you will re-injure it from something silly like lifting a garbage can ect.

The healing is longest part, but even this time will pass quickly. Pain is relatively low and mostly just soreness leftover from the surgery. The wound is healing fine and no rust streaks on the skin from the steel rods and screws. Rodney.

that your back or did you fall against a fench repair!
LOL

mine looks the same

Standard level 2 fusion and decompression. Seemed like text book stuff to the Doc. Rodney.

Hey Rodney, How are you doing? Hope your doing well.

We got some bad news, my wifes Doc is surprised she isnt paralized yet...according to her last MRI. Luckily my buddies daughter is a antesthelogist (sp) and she knows the doc to do her surgery. sounds pretty simple. drill a hole in her spine and pull out the bad disks.

right now she has a hell of a gimp going. half of her left leg is dead, I hope its just temporary.

I'm with ya man and I hope you recovered well. Back issues suck.

Hang in there Rodney.

After you posted you pic of the plates and screws, I figgered I better show off my "hardware." Had a C6-7 cervical fusion back in 2007. Still drives me nuts. I've cut back a lot on my shooting - esp the .338 and .375. Bought a Caldwell Lead Sled DFT to make things better at the range.