WALTER'S OWN


Moderators: Walterhog
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
SAS sniper rifle-ammunition combination and magical claims?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
One of the threads about the SAS sniper's decapitating of the ISIS terrorist included a link whose source mentioned that the 338 Lapua bullet that hit had such irregular travel that its total effect was devastating. I wondered about the truth of that news story, so I tried to find additional information about the ammunition and rifle.

That information makes no sense. The ammunition used in this "Dan" rifle is 338 Lapua - no magic here, yet. That same ammunition was claimed to be able to destroy engine blocks, penetrate vehicular armor (size/thickness/compostion not identified), and other contrary characteristics. That is, a bullet that tumbles upon impact with people is almost certainly not going to penetrate armor of an APC or up-armored HumVee.

Anyone who is knowledgeable about this rifle-ammunition combination who can make some sense from the nonsensical claims I have read - please do it.


It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. Sam Levinson
 
Posts: 1531 | Location: Seeley Lake | Registered: 21 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Dulltool17
posted Hide Post
Just my 2 cents, but the line about tumbling upon contact with soft tissue seems like BS to me. The laws of physics don't change just because you shoot some jihadi.


Doug Wilhelmi
NRA Life Member

 
Posts: 7503 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 15 October 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
AFA the big long 338 300 grn tumbling on impact with a human head, nope, not enough media. That said, in enough non-air media and a non-malleable bullet, secant/tangent ogive pointed types, will always reverse ends in non-air media- you just cannot spin a bullet fast enough to remain ballistically stable in other than air ( something like a rotational velocity of a bunch of millions RPM). A modern fast twist bullet will be running at 200-300k rpm to be stabilized- the longer the bullet, the faster the needed rpm.

Expanding or flat nosed bullets can/do remain in nose first orientation in non air media due to the steering effects of the bullet nose shape or changing balance as a bullet expands and slows.

In the 338/human example given- enough energy can be expended in the target (and the human head is quite liquid/plastic, so energy transfer is good with not much elasticity) to "explode", and the projectile still built well enough to penetrate hard materials too.

Anyway,
 
Posts: 1082 | Location: MidWest USA  | Registered: 27 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HPMaster:
AFA the big long 338 300 grn tumbling on impact with a human head, nope, not enough media. That said, in enough non-air media and a non-malleable bullet, secant/tangent ogive pointed types, will always reverse ends in non-air media- you just cannot spin a bullet fast enough to remain ballistically stable in other than air ( something like a rotational velocity of a bunch of millions RPM). A modern fast twist bullet will be running at 200-300k rpm to be stabilized- the longer the bullet, the faster the needed rpm.

Expanding or flat nosed bullets can/do remain in nose first orientation in non air media due to the steering effects of the bullet nose shape or changing balance as a bullet expands and slows.

In the 338/human example given- enough energy can be expended in the target (and the human head is quite liquid/plastic, so energy transfer is good with not much elasticity) to "explode", and the projectile still built well enough to penetrate hard materials too.

Anyway,


tu2
 
Posts: 42774 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I have seen allot of people shot in the head and I will say that bullets do strange things when striking a hard skull.

Anything is possible.
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HPMaster:
AFA the big long 338 300 grn tumbling on impact with a human head, nope, not enough media. That said, in enough non-air media and a non-malleable bullet, secant/tangent ogive pointed types, will always reverse ends in non-air media- you just cannot spin a bullet fast enough to remain ballistically stable in other than air ( something like a rotational velocity of a bunch of millions RPM). A modern fast twist bullet will be running at 200-300k rpm to be stabilized- the longer the bullet, the faster the needed rpm.

Expanding or flat nosed bullets can/do remain in nose first orientation in non air media due to the steering effects of the bullet nose shape or changing balance as a bullet expands and slows.

In the 338/human example given- enough energy can be expended in the target (and the human head is quite liquid/plastic, so energy transfer is good with not much elasticity) to "explode", and the projectile still built well enough to penetrate hard materials too.

Anyway,


Not exactly apples to apples, but hard to believe a layer of rubber between to sheets of armor will defeat a shaped charge, but it will.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7589 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Grenadier
posted Hide Post
Like any military ammunition it is offered in different configurations for different missions or tasks.
quote:
Lapua offers a wide selection of .338 LM ammunition including Ball, Armour Piercing, Armour Piercing Incendiary, HPBT, Blank and Drill cartridges. The trajectory of most of the bullets is tailored to match, so there is no need to change the sight setup when changing a bullet type.
Shooting personnel? Use the HPBT or Ball depending on situation. Shooting hard targets? Choose the AP or API depending on situation.

It's not rocket science. Wink




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Lapuas statement notwithstanding regarding matching trajectories (I know better), I don't know of any marksman who would unchamber a round and reload with another to address a target of opportunity.

Personally, I would load with the round most likely to address expected targets, zero specifically with that and use it.

If the worst target expected was light armor, then the APIT would be the one in the chamber and mag and all spares. HPBT would be practice ammo.
 
Posts: 1082 | Location: MidWest USA  | Registered: 27 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Grenadier
posted Hide Post
Lapua has manufactured the different rounds with trajectories close enough that a marksman need only dial in minor changes when using different types of ammunition. The scope settings for each type of round are determined by zeroing and shooting each beforehand.

Regardless, the question posed by the OP didn't specify the shootings were done at one sitting with the same rifle. I took it to mean quite the opposite. I was merely pointing out there is not only one single type of 338LM ammunition but different types for different missions.




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia