She's 14, I haven't seen her in about 10 years.

What could be going through a little girls mind that she would think of that?

Her old sister is my kid, and I have more daughters from my current marriage.

Makes me worry about little girls. My wife said that girls that are about 10 and up really have a hard time with other girls.

I have been divorced from my x-wife for 15 years. As far as I know she has a pretty good family life.

I have a friend here in town whose daughter has been unsuccessfully to kill herself for the last 5 and 1/2 years. Bi-polar, won't stay on her meds, won't take any advice. It's a crying shame. Seems like there is nothing that they have been able to try that helps her just maintain. Sorry

A friend of mine in Tennesee's sister killed herself when he was in the Marine Corps. She strangled herself in the grand parents barn. Left no note. He was about 10 years older than she was, it haunts him to this day.

We were on deployment together when it happened. Good thing there is no booze in Afghanistan.

my condolences to all. It seems to occur around holidays, feeling unable to fit in and see a future. Little girls too often seem to have a hard time making that transition to young adults.

Hug your kids more often...

She's locked up in the hospital where they live in rural Illinois. I am waiting to hear of what happened.

My oldest daughter is pretty shaken by it all but ok. Hopefully her baby sister will be ok.

I hope for a happy outcome on this;I suppose she needs some counseling. I for one can sympathize yet not understand.If one is an insomniac + say go to sleep,if one is depressed I say cheer up.I am not being flippant. I mean I don't understand how people think this way.Best wishes for the young lady, + you as well.

Oldest daughter needs to visit baby sister asap!
She needs family support as well as knowing that people still love and care about her.
Where is the father figure?

So what happened?

Statistically, incidents of suicide/attempted suicide are higher at this time of year than any other time.

I have known people that it took them 3 or more times to finally get the job done, but they eventually got it done.

People that contemplate suicide have a pain that all the people that love and care for them can not take away.

It is really sad, because many or most of those that take that route, seem to have everything to live for, from other peoples perspective, from their own perspective they believe things would be better (???) if they were out of the equation.

While these things are always listed as "mental & emotional " problems there is a long list of biochemical problems that can cause depression !!!
They include allergic reactions, neutritional deficiencies, hypoglcemia, etc. Often these things are never loked at.
The increase in problems at this time of year is due to the short days .
http://www.webmd.com/mental-he...r-sad-topic-overview

The short days may cause some problems, but so does realizing another year of ones life is ending, and some folks when reviewing where they are at in life and what they have or have not accomplished during their life at this point in time become depressed to the point of thinking about or committing suicide.

There are too many "Ifs" in understanding what the mechanisms are that cause people to think about or commit suicide.

I suspect that many suicides are a reaction to a genuine feeling that the individual has nothing to live for. That may be because of a type of PTSD which does not occur solely on battlefields.

Or, it may be because they simply don't have anyone they feel they can genuinely share their deep-down feelings with or where they are coming from, and get friendship and real understanding in return.

A person has to feel they are of at least some value in this world to want to stay in it.

They don't need someone analyzing them, telling them what is "wrong" with them, how to plan and live their life to be "normal".

Good assistance to such people is an ally who will ask them simple questions about what would make them happy, (not pre-loaded with pass/fail values). Ask them if there are specific things happening in their life which defeat their efforts to get to that happy place. The person asking does not need to know what those things are...at least not by asking what they are. A better next question is "Do you have a plan which might help you avoid some of those hurtful happenings, or the circumstances wich cause them?

If you don't, maybe you could try thinking up ways you are going to deal with some of the most hurtful things which happen to you before it happens again. You don't need to share how you'll try to do it, or get it approved, just think about it. And you don't need to have a perfect plan or one which resolves all your concerns. If your plan or parts of it don't work out, try something else.

If you ever want to, you can talk to me in absolute confidence that anything private you say to me absolutely won't be heard by another living soul unless YOU tell them yourself. I won't.

And if you ever want to know if I ever dealt with such a thing, I'll tell you straight out what beset me and how I got past it. You don't need to try what I did. I'll just tell you about how what I did worked for me or didn't, good or bad. You can make up your own mind as to whether you think it might be useful once in a while for you. You don't need to tell me if you decide to do the same thing or how it worked for you. You can of course, but don't feel in any way that I expect you to do so."

--

I hope it is obvious that no-one should try to cover all that in one conversation.

The depressed person simply needs, over time, to realize and count on the fact that you are there for them, not in a "professional" sense, but as a true friend. As such those feelings are best expressed in snippets, intermixed in other conversations.

May not help a bit, especially with those whose depression is chemically caused, but in other instances it may help enough to give them something they wouldn't want to lose by suicide.

I've been friends with my brother in law (larry) since we were 6 y/o. His sister was a year older, when you are 6, 1 year might as well be 10.

She was a Judges' assistant. I didn't get to know her until Larry married my sister. Sis and the inlaws live in Nevada. His sister lived about 2 miles from me. She committed suicide the same week my dad died. I had no idea anything was wrong. It's naive to think I could have done anything.. but

Big Wonderful Wyoming,
were you able to help out during the current holidays?

What are "YOU" going to do to help her?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Oldest daughter needs to visit baby sister asap!
She needs family support as well as knowing that people still love and care about her.
Where is the father figure?

She is not my daughter, I have only ever seen her once in my life.

My daughter is the big sister. Life is complicated.

My wife has worked most of her professional nursing career (20+ years) working on the behavioral health floor here in PB......formerly mental health

She spends 40+ hours a week behind a locked door treating patients on a high security wing

What I know just from her is depression is a real disease that without treatment can have horrible results.

We both lost a good friend last year to suicide...she was a co-worker and fellow nurse on the same floor as my wife and very skilled

Take her condition as an illness and get help.... this is not just a phase

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
My wife has worked most of her professional nursing career (20+ years) working on the behavioral health floor here in PB......formerly mental health

She spends 40+ hours a week behind a locked door treating patients on a high security wing

What I know just from her is depression is a real disease that without treatment can have horrible results.

We both lost a good friend last year to suicide...she was a co-worker and fellow nurse on the same floor as my wife and very skilled

Take her condition as an illness and get help.... this is not just a phase

Then you and she both know there are many kinds of depression...some the results of one thing, some the result of another.

This whole "disease" gambit often gets in the way of understanding what is needed to help the depressed.

One needs to understand that disease is just one possible answer, and begin their evaluation with an open mind as to potential cause/causes.

My wife spent 30+ years as a psychologist, and I used to administer a 1,150 bed psychiatric hospital in Canada.

The whole disease thing is sometimes too convenient to accomplish our goal of saving the depressed.

It is a lot like alcoholism, which the AMA has also declared is a disease. But in other parts of the world that view is not the primary accepted one. In some countries just as advanced as ours, alcoholism is treated as a "learned behavior pattern" and the results are every bit as good as our trying to treat it as a disease.

Runs in families? Yes. Is that genetic? Not necessarily. It may be behavior learned from parents, grandparents or some other member of the family or the early environment. And of course if it is the family "norm" it will be learned by one generation after another. Is it communicable? Not demonstrably.

But whether a disease or a learned behavior, disease is a great way for the alcoholic to avoid having to take responsibility for their actions (It's not my fault, I'm sick...).

It's also very lucrative to the medical community...hospitalization in rehab units, prescribed drugs to make alcohol abusers physically react negatively if they drink alcohol, and so on...none are cheap.

Next thing you know, they'll say cigarette smoking or using pot are dieseases, eh?

No, the primary cause of alcohol abuse is consciously deciding to drink alcohol.

Why do we think all those things are called "substance abuse" anyhow?

I have only been associated with a couple of suicides, and both were adults, so this may not apply, but in both cases the first time was a success.

I sincerely believe that anyone serious about taking their own life does it. Period. I also believe, rightly or wrongly, that an "attempted" suicide is a last ditch cry for help.

BWW, I sincerely hope this young girl gets the help she needs, and that someone much more skilled and intelligent than I am determines what is causing her problems.

But I still believe she is crying out for help. I just hope the right people are listening.

Best of luck to you and her family...

Get her professional help fast


Mental health problems are treatable....waste no time

Be sure to recognize when asking for, the help will OFTEN be unsuccessful unless the whole family group living together also receives help (and is willing to adjust their lives accordingly).

One of the things that drives child psychologists around the bend is when they are called upon to help a child where the real problem isn't the child, but the group with which they live.

The child will do their darndest to change their life for the better, while the other members of the group won't because t is very inconvenient, takes too much effort, or some other lame excuse...with parents in particular, that can be literally deadly.

quote:

I have only been associated with a couple of suicides, and both were adults, so this may not apply, but in both cases the first time was a success.

I sincerely believe that anyone serious about taking their own life does it. Period. I also believe, rightly or wrongly, that an "attempted" suicide is a last ditch cry for help.

I have seen the other side also. One young lady in this area took 3 tries at it and succeeded on try number 4. This took place over a span of 4 or 5 years. She would make an attempt and be saved and do alright for a few months and then try it again. The fourth time got it done.

When I read posts such as this topic I feel better about our country. There are some caring, intelligent folks on this site.

I spoke to my daughter last night. She said her sister is home from the hospital and on meds.

I need to punch my x-wife in the neck (don't we all), she works nights and her husband works days and then goes to the bar where she works and hangs out until she gets off work.

My 16 year old daughter is the one responsible for watching her sister until they get home from the bar.

Like I said, the girl is not my kid and it's hard for me and my (current wife) to hear about it and not have anything we can do.

I'm not much on giving advice in such situations unless asked, BUT you really need to take care/support of your daughter (the caretaker), she is in a bad spot, and she may or may not be able to handle it and the many other things that mid-teen girls have on their life screen. Alcohol or drugs MAY become part of her seeking relief. She is of an age where a judge would consider her choices about where she wanted to live. Life may be complicated but this one IS your daughter and she needs help IMO.

I am with you on that one.

quote:

Originally posted by pennfly:
When I read posts such as this topic I feel better about our country. There are some caring, intelligent folks on this site.

Amen.

Suicides seem to be one of those things that are not talked about, but there are more suicides than homicides in the USA. For the 14 year old age range, suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death yet when it happens to an acquaintance everyone is always surprised. Then, look at the chart for the most recent numbers and it jumps from 3rd to 2nd place in the 15-34 age bracket:


Not trying to lessen anyones pain, but just pointing out that it is not that rare and should be discussed a bit more as a country.

P.S. Since easy access to guns always seems to come up in these sort of discussions, in countries such as Japan with high suicide rates when handguns were banned the handgun suicide rate dropped and the jumping off buildings rate showed a corresponding increase. When someone is ill enough to decide to kill themself the method does not appear to be a significant obstacle.

Just got this one in:

AHRQ Report Finds More Children Hospitalized for Suicide, Self-Injury
Hospitalizations for suicide and self-injury increased significantly for all children between 2006 and 2011, especially
among children ages 10 to 14, according to a new article in the journal Academic Pediatrics. The analysis of
hospitalizations from 2006 to 2011 is based on a report prepared from data sources sponsored by AHRQ and led by
AHRQ researchers. The report found that nearly 59,000 children ages 1 to 17 were admitted to the hospital for a
suicide or self-injury diagnosis in 2011, rising 104 percent in the five-year study period. The increase was the most
pronounced in children ages 10 to 14, rising 151 percent, and among children ages 5 to 9, rising 130 percent. The
article and abstract, “Annual Report on Health Care for Children and Youth in the United States: National Estimates
of Cost, Utilization and Expenditures for Children with Mental Disorders,” appears in the January-February issue of
Academic Pediatrics.

My (admittedly unscientific) thought is that the rise of social media has a lot to do with the increase in suicidality among teens. Kids are subject to all kinds of social pressures and with social media they never get a respite. Looking online to build one's self-image is fraught with danger.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
My (admittedly unscientific) thought is that the rise of social media has a lot to do with the increase in suicidality among teens. Kids are subject to all kinds of social pressures and with social media they never get a respite. Looking online to build one's self-image is fraught with danger.

YOU BET!!!

BWW:
Man I hope everyone can get the help needed for yourselves and the girls.

I had a strange one about '08. Dated a woman that her husband had succeeded either his second or third try, with a pistol of some kind.
I'd taken the lady out shooting one day and she invited me and her dau/sil over for supper that night. We told the 'kids-30's)' about the fun we'd had and how well she'd done with the .38.

The girl flat told me: "I hate guns, Dad committed suicide with one" "that just happens to be what he used, he'd of done it some other way if he hadn't gotten the gun first, you can't blame the gun for what he did."

SIL: was staring at me studying what I had to say. Among which: "anyone considering suicide is going thru some kind of mental problems and needs help". He agreed and the girl shut up, obvious she'd stepped on the wrong toes and could see my point too. Later she told her Mom that she appreciated my input that night.

The sil and I built some steps together and we talked about getting together to go to the range shooting soon. He was eager to learn how he said. It didn't happen for one reason or another.

Couple months later he disappeared for days. Finally the sheriff called to say they'd found him 25 miles away in a motel room with half his head blown off. OF course that derailed the girl. "why with a gun of all things!!"

I've wondered IF I'd taken him shooting if he'd of used my gun to do it then. Spooky thoughts. Without cameras I just might have been in deep troubles if had happened.

Best wishes to everyone. Great thread, horrible subject. Lots of concern, lots to consider for everyone.

George

O.K. a few years ago a friend from the S.O. called + wanted to know if I would clean a 38 spl. S+W that had been used in a suicide. brain matter,gobbets,etc. Sure I said. Seems the family wanted to sell the revolver for a tomb stone. I contacted a mason friend of mine + he said he would do the sone free as he knew the parents already. Long story short ,the little girl was buried,the cop on scene decided that he now wanted the Chief's Spl. (it was clean now of course) + I was left with a memory that the little girl killed herself on the anniversary of Kurt Cobain's suicide. What a waste of life due to ....WHAT?? I don't have that problem with all the children that I have raised + been in contact so I truly don't understand.Mox Nix- If that kid has a problem,it started at home IMO!!!