I have a .45-70 Sharps replica (admittedly a cheapo uberti) and thought it would be neat to play around with it a bit with black powder.

It shoots reasonably well (for me with buckhorn irons) and I am thinking of putting a tang peep on it.

My first attempt with BP reloads for it have been not so good. However, how I am loading it is by using one of those cheap brass "powder measures" that is basically a dipper that you can set the volumetric amount in 5 grain clicks.

I recall there being a Harrel black powder measure but they don't even have it on their web site anymore. Doing a web search just brings up more of the brass jobs like I already have.

Any thoughts on what is the current way to get accurate measure dispensing? My smokeless stuff is all either electric or has plastic (ie static electricity risk)

Is there any somewhat midlevel or higher level advanced book that you guys who are experienced with it might recommend?

As an aside, I do use BP for muzzleloading hunting, I have a couple BP percussion pistols, and do load some brass shotgun shells with BP for the odd clay target or hunting day for the hell of it, so I am not wholly inexperienced with black powder, but the cartridge load was pretty sorry- 70 gr of FFG with a commercial cast 405 gr LSWC (.458 dia) gave a group that was 4x larger than my smokeless round with the same bullet...

A good place to start is the SPG Blackpowder Reloading Primer. As to loads, I throw slightly under weight loads with a Lyman Classic 55 blackpowder measure and then trickle onto a pan on my scale. I use a 24" drop tube to put powder into the case. You also generally need an over powder wad. Blackpowder cartridge rifles are somewhat sensitive to lead alloy and bullet lube. I have good results using 16:1 lead to tin alloy for bullets and SPG lube. You also need some kind of fowling control between shots, either blow tubing or wiping the bore between each shot. Hope this helps for a start.

CR, Dave -- a highly experienced BPCR shooter and a very fine guy -- is giving you great advice.
I load by weighing my charge on a scale, then trickling into the case with a 30-inch drop tube. May or may not use a wad, but you want to compress the load 0.10 inch or more, preferably with something besides the bullet base; your rifle will tell you how much. You want a softer rather than harder bullet alloy -- 20:1 is a good target to aim for -- and a quality BP lube like the aforementioned SPG, which I have used since Steve Garbe invented it decades ago. (Look up Matthews lube for a home-made product.)
The actual bullet used is critical. If it just has very shallow lube rings for smokeless applications, it likely won't deliver enough lube to the fouling in the upper half of your barrel and you'll want a mold designed specifically to hold BP lube and sized a thousandth or two over groove diameter to be successful. That Uberti probably has a very decent barrel and would reward you with pleasing accuracy if you you feed it what it wants.
Dunno which powder you are using, but the gold standard is Swiss -- more powerful and more consistent while much cleaner burning -- vs. garden-variety Goex. The latter can be made to shoot just fine but takes more attention to fouling control to maximize performance.
Garbe and Mike Venturino's SPG BP Primer is an excellent resource, as is Venturino's "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West." I've read that one a half-dozen times.
You have a good rifle in a very fine choice of chambering and it will make you smile if you do the work. Best!

Thanks for the info!

Trying to find the powder measure is kind of challenging at the moment.

Here's a post I wrote some time ago for someone shooting 45-110 -

The recipe is as follows:

After sizing your brass, use an expander that expands the neck at .457 - .458 and puts a very slight bell of .461 - .462 on the mouth (can be obtained from www.buffaloarms.com). (I don't know the make of your 45-120 - but find out the diameter of the bore and adjust these measurements)
My rifles like .001 neck tension, ie for a .458 use a .457 expander and has a second diameter at the top for slightly starting the bullet.

Prime with a standard winchester rifle primer - Not magnum.

Drop tube 105g Goex Fg. Fg IS the powder for the 45-110. Burns extremely clean. - (You will probably need more for your 45-120)

** Note - For my 45-70, my rifle loves 70gr 1F over a .030 vegetable wad to protect the base. However most use around 65gr of Goex 2F and you gain velocity. Your rifle will tell you the load. As your powder increases, so does compression. Some rifles like more, others less.

Use compression die (www.buffaloarms.com) to compress the powder to the level that your bullet and .060 wad will set on top of the powder column. If you compress with your bullet, you will deform it.

Slowly pour your powder into the case with a long drop tube. I believe Shiloh and Buffalo Arms sells these.

Use a creedmore style bullet such as the Lyman 457132 Postell of about 530 - 540 grains cast at 20-1 and lubed with an appropriate Black Powder Cartridge lube such as SPG or DGL. You will have better success if you learn to cast these yourself rather than commercially made.
If your rifle is a Shiloh, bullet size should be .458. Buffalo arms does sell quality bullets however.

Seat the bullet and wad to cover all the grease grooves sitting directly on the powder column - no air space - and deep enough to chamber.

Do Not Crimp. At most, you can remove the bell, but I don't even do this as it is so slight, if you you the expander above, you can't even notice a bell.

The 45-70 is very forgiving in learning how to load for these things. The 45-110 is a true high performance cartridge in the BPCR world (although compared to smokeless, seems slow) and this cartridge does not forgive creative loading practices with good accuracy. However, when loaded correctly for your rifle (varying powder charges, bullet seating etc) this cartridge will be accurate out to 1000 yds.

Use a blow tube for 4-5 breaths between each shot to keep the fouling moist and you will not have to clean between shots. Cleaning between shots will enlarge your groups.

You can shoot smokeless (be very carefull because of the large case) and jacketed bullets but you will find that these rifles were built for Black Powder and will shoot much better with real black powder and lead bullets.

The lubes that I mentioned above are not anything like the lubes you've seen on cast pistol bullets. It is soft and designed to keep the powder fouling moist when coupled with your breath from the blow tube.

Caution - these things are addictive.

Excellent post, RC.

Thanks for sure.

Its slowly moving along.

I got a Pedersoli black powder tangent sight on it now. Heaven above, I can hit a target at 100 yards with the thing now! Shot a 1.5" group with my old smokeless loads while sighting it in.

Got the Lyman BP manual which while it addresses BPCR's isn't much help... its mostly tables.

Got the SPG manual by Garbe and Venturino... much more helpful. Discovered I needed a bunch of toys...I mean tools that I didn't have.

Unfortunately, Swiss seems to be unobtanium around here, but got some old elephant (for the pistol) and a selection of Scheutzen BP (F-FFFG).

The casting thing is starting from scratch for me. I usually buy the bullets, but the local guy who used to cast them for me just had his wife go into hospice with a brain tumor, so I am not bugging him about this and started looking into it... Lee pot, mould, ignot mold, luber-sizer, more bullet lube, luber-sizer lube heater, sizer die, and now I have to find the right top plug for the dang thing...

Montana Vintage Arms BP powder measure. 30" drop tube. (unused) catheter tubing for blow tube... arch punches for wads... now I have to buy milk in a carton instead of a plastic jug...

How the hell did anyone shoot these things back in the day?

At least per Garbe, the loading is simple... put in enough powder so you compress it a little bit.

Now rcasto is telling me I need another item (a compression die)...

At least the old Hornady Die set seems to still function. (I have moved away from hornady dies because the dang decap pin always seem to come loose for me... wheres the damn pipe to torque this SOB down tight enough...)

Like everything else, the more you get into it the more you learn and the more you need...

Contrast this to my old .45 colt BP load- which was the same as my smokeless load except you just poured in 40 grains of FFFG black powder and a 255 LSWC with smokeless lube on it- it went boom. I was happy with it... now I have to do a bunch of different stuff there now too.

I tell you... I need to learn to control my OCD.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45...n-plug-van45rcp.html

This screws into a Lyman expander die
https://www.buffaloarms.com/ly...h-l-lym7113000a.html

https://www.powdervalley.com/p...-black-powder-2fg-1/


https://www.buffaloarms.com/45...er-fo-van457460.html

Done a few thousands of rounds of BPC, and won many buffalo matches. Do what they said above.
The actual measure of BP is not important; it is not like smokeless, so that is not your problem. No need to try to measure within .5 grains. You do need the right bullet alloy, and the lube is super impotent; I use SPG; it must be soft; definitely no modern lube. Use a card wad.
Compress the BP some, with a compression die.
I used to use a blow tube, or clean between shots; non more; I use duplex loads; 10% of 5744 on the bottom, no compression. Perfectly clean barrel. Not allowed in NRA.
I mostly used a custom Sharps 45 2.4 inch for most shooting. Badger barrel.
Yes get the Garbe and Venturino book, and subscribe to BP Cartridge magazine. If they still print it.
And I have a custom 45-70 Sharps for sale....

I think you missed my tongue in cheek point-

I’ve got a quarter of my reloading bench with BP stuff on it and now have casting stuff as well, but in the process of learning how to use it.

The gun shoots as well as anything, and better than most for me with iron sights, and I’m in the process of learning. A 1.5” group at 100 was to me showing this thing has potential.

The comment on how anyone managed in the day is purely based on the amount of stuff I had to get and I’m still not done- never thought of a compression die.

What I’ve tried so far was melting the smokeless lube off and replacing with SPG.

I have to buy a micrometer to slug the bore… after getting a supply of pure lead roundballs that measure over .458.

It’s very different than smokeless, yet similar.

I note you said don’t use magnum primers and Garbe says magnum work best… say to me I need to shoot both and see which is better for my rifle.

It's a pleasant road to travel, CR. I miss it. If I ever try again, I might look for a .40-65. The .45-70 with the big 540-grain bullets is not as fun as it used to be, my 72-year-old shoulder tells me.
I'd love to engage the famous white buffalo at the Whittington Center -- at 1,025 meters -- with a black powder cartridge rifle before I clock out.