Hi I am looking to buy me a new knife. It will be used to dress a reindeer. Where I hunt we have to carry the deer out in backpacks. I have a Gerber E-Z skinner
http://www.gerberstore.com/index.php?xpage=itempage&xid=566

It is a tool with a handel and a gut hook and it work pretty well. But a need a good knife, I also have a saw and a small Buck diamondback

http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/221/222

about 3" blade but it is to small for a field dressing. What I am looking for is kind of drop point blade about 4"-4" 1/2. I like the look on Buck vanguard with S30V blade it looks pretty to me

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/sta...=cat20889&hasJS=true

So to you have any suggestions for my and is S30v steel good to have in knife, how about resharpening

S30V is very fine steel[The best in my opinion] and no problem sharpening with ceramic or diamond. Have you looked at Fallkniven especially the F-1 or H-1 .Excellent VG10 steel ,very well made .How about Dozier knives using D-2 ? Lots of choices out there .

S-30V is an excellent knife steel. It's tough and holds an edge longer than most.
It is quite a bit more difficult to sharpen than 420 and lesser stainless steels though. As Mete said diamonds and ceramics work well and I'll add Waterstones to the list, but I wouldn't want to sharpen one on a slower cutting stone like an Arkansas.
Dozier's are fantastic cutting instruments and D-2 is easier to sharpen than S-30V. If you can afford one try one.
In a less expensive knife, Helle knives have really been growing on me. They seem to have about the best steel I've found in a knife under $100, and many of them can be found for under $50.
Here's a family pic:

http://www.darktimberdesign.com/helleknife/index2.html

And here's a place that has some of them even cheaper:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/prodlist.js...ange=1&order=Default

To me using a Nordic style knife just seems "right" for reindeer. You might also check out this guy:

http://www.ragweedforge.com/Welcome.html


I've bought knives from all of these folks and got good service....................DJ

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LINATS211

http://www.knives-from-solingen.com/shop/artikel/a1678.htm?uid=1822546603

This will likely be my next knife: Linder Super edge 2 with ATS 34 blade. Two sources provided. It may suitable for your requirements.

Price: ~$115 USD or similar euro.

Also, great knives:
52100 steel
http://www.dlttradingcompany.com/product_info.php?cPath=73_102&products_id=450

52100 alloy comparative article
http://www.tellercanyon.com/knives-and-steel.html#ToC9

VG10 steel blade
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SPFB02

Knife steel reference chart:
http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steelchart.html

http://ajh-knives.com/metals.html

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html
Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by catboat:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LINATS211

http://www.knives-from-solingen.com/shop/artikel/a1678.htm?uid=1822546603

This will likely be my next knife: Linder Super edge 2 with ATS 34 blade. Two sources provided. It may suitable for your requirements.

Price: ~$115 USD or similar euro.

Good luck.

GREAT CHOICE!


By the way, there is a simple drop point also.

I wouldn't spend too much extra for a S30V blade. It doesn't really hold an edge much better than 420HC (if properly heat treated).

For the record I have used
420 - sucks
420HC - OK hard to sharpen.
440A - typically sucks
440C - a hair better than 420HC but truly difficult to really tell a difference. Cost a lot more than 420HC though. Harder to sharpen.
ATS134 - a hair better than 440C and cost more to boot. Hardest to sharpen.
S30V - no better than 440C or ATS134. So not really any better than 420HC. Rust easier than the others (now that sucks). About the same as 440C to sharpen.

1084 - sucks
1095 - pretty good, equal to 440C. Easily sharpened.
D2 - good stuff better than ATS134 by a hair. Hardest to sharpen. Better rust resistance than S30V.

Easily sharpened means Arkansas stones work.
Hard to sharpen means Arkansas stones sorta work but not well. Ceramic or diamond is a good idea.
Harder to sharpen means that Arkansas stones won't do squat! Use ceramic or diamond.
Hardest to sharpen means ceramic or diamond. My preference is diamond with a ceramic finisher (extra fine).

Now one strangeness (is that a word) about 420HC that I have noticed is that after several resharpenings it doesn't take as fine an edge and edge holding has dropped off. I suspect this has something to do with carbon content and grain structure.

So it really is a individual question of value added. You will pay a considerable premium for many of the "premium" steels, with only a small (and I mean small) to modest improvement.

Now if all you are doing is cutting cardboard, then the king is D2, followed by S30V, followed by ATS134. I find that cardboard cutting performance isn't too aweful indicative of game processing performance though.

Buy a cold steel master hunter is the best for the money i daily carry one while guiding .Juan

Thanks for the lesson in steel ScottS.

Mete, I have been looking at the Fallkniven website and there are beautyfull knives there.
The F1 with wood handel looks good and I think I like the F1 better than the H1, beacuse of the blade guard. But the one I want the most is NL5 Idun (Iðun in Icelandic) it is the knife of my dream, of course it costs two times more than the F1.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
I wouldn't spend too much extra for a S30V blade. It doesn't really hold an edge much better than 420HC (if properly heat treated).

I strongly disagree. S-30V is a far superior knife steel to any 420 variant. Harder, Tougher and will hold an edge far longer.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
D2 - good stuff better than ATS134 by a hair. Hardest to sharpen. Better rust resistance than S30V.
.

I'll agree that D-2 is better than ATS-134 but it isn't near as hard to sharpen properly than S-30V.

There are certainly plenty of excellent knives that aren't all that expensive. But having used several Bob Dozier knives in D-2 and Cris Reeves knives in S-30V I think that if you can afford it better steel is worth it.
I just wish that they would come out with a knife shaped like a F-1 made out of ZDP-189. ZDP-189 is the finest knife steel I've ever seen but for now it's only available in relatively small blades...............DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
I wouldn't spend too much extra for a S30V blade. It doesn't really hold an edge much better than 420HC (if properly heat treated).

I strongly disagree. S-30V is a far superior knife steel to any 420 variant. Harder, Tougher and will hold an edge far longer.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
D2 - good stuff better than ATS134 by a hair. Hardest to sharpen. Better rust resistance than S30V.
.

I'll agree that D-2 is better than ATS-134 but it isn't near as hard to sharpen properly than S-30V.

There are certainly plenty of excellent knives that aren't all that expensive. But having used several Bob Dozier knives in D-2 and Cris Reeves knives in S-30V I think that if you can afford it better steel is worth it.
I just wish that they would come out with a knife shaped like a F-1 made out of ZDP-189. ZDP-189 is the finest knife steel I've ever seen but for now it's only available in relatively small blades...............DJ

DJ,

Don't you find the steel on the F-1 a little thick? I'd prefer 1/8" thick steel.

Regards,

Don

DJ,

You can certainly disagree with me, but the fact is that there really isn't too much of a difference between any of these steels if heat treated properly! The reason that some are harder to sharpen than other is the carbide levels. These carbide levels don't do much with regard to edge strength, but they do help with wear. Wearing out an edge is done usually when one is cutting paper, ALOT.

I assure you I can take the edge off (flatten it) in any of these steels VERY quickly. Particularly if I am starting with a shaving sharp edge. It only takes a very small cutting force to overstress a fine shaving edge, sorry to break the news to you. I too own many expensive, high end premium steel knives. I like them not for the so-called superior steel (at the time I believed the hype, but after using them I now know that the hype is simply that hype), but for their superior craftmanship.

S30V is easy to sharpen with diamonds and ceramics! I have a S30V liner lock on my belt right now! The half to edge shaves the other doesn't, as I overstressed that portion of the edge aggressively cutting some old seasoned hickory.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

DJ,

Don't you find the steel on the F-1 a little thick? I'd prefer 1/8" thick steel.

Regards,

Don

Don for a pure cutting knife the F-1 is a little thick. The thinner the blade usually the better it cuts, distal taper helps too.
To me the F-1 is more of a general-purpose survival/hunting knife so the extra thickness is a virtue not a handicap. If I were hunting in Africa I wouldn't hesitate a second to let a native tracker borrow a F-1 but might balk about letting him use one of my Dozier's. The Dozier's are thinner and probably better pure cutting instruments but the F-1 might be a better all-around knife if that makes any sense.

Scott I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen independant tests that show that S-30v is about as much a step up from ATS-134 as ATS-134 is above 420 in terms of how many cuts of a given item can be made at a certain pressure. 420 Stainless has a well deserved reputation for not holding an edge well. Read a few knife magazines and you will see that fact oft repeated.
There are steels that will hold an edge longer than S-30V but many aren't as tough and tend to be chippy. I've sharpened dozens of knives factory to custom since most of my freinds have me sharpen all theirs when they can get me too. S-30V is one of the harder steels to sharpen, certainly do-able but someone who's not as adept at sharpening might be better off with a steel that's not as tough.................DJ

You're repeating the same error It's ATS-34 which is the same as 154CM, both excellent . To add to Juan's comment , I've used the stainless CS Master Hunter for years and recommend it as a VERY practical knife and good value...There is no comparison betweeen 420HC and S30V,they're two very different worlds !!!

Knife makers would generally agree that:

Most steels less than ATS-34 are used by manufacturers where cost is of great concern. They have much less desirable characteristics.

ATS-34 (154 CM) is a guite good stainless steel. When properly heat treated it is not brittle, holds a good edge, and is relatively easy to sharpen. Hardened to RC 59-60 and cryo'd, the edge of an ATS-34 knife will actually be flexible rather than "chippy."

D2 is a more wear resistant steel, but does not hold as good an edge as ATS-34. Has often been described as "holding a decent edge for a long time."

S30V and BG42 have characteristics similar to ATS-34 save that the edges feel different. The presence of relatively high vanadium content yields an edge that simply feels sharper. S30V should be more corrosion resistant than ATS-34.

S60V (or 440V) is the next step up in terms of felt edge and (properly heat treated) corrosion resistance. Unfortunately, it is no longer available as new material.

CMP10V is a non-stainless material that is more wear resistant than any of the above (meaning that it is harder to sharpen but holds an edge better too).

There are many other materials available to the hard core knifemaker between these and the extreme end. Most are tool steels of one sort or another. Many are hard but a bit brittle.

At the extreme end of hard and tough is Vasco Wear (or CPM's Cruwear). It can be heat treated to incredibly hard and very, very, very wear resistant. It is strong enough to be HT'd to RC63-64 and not be too brittle. All work on the blade needs to be done before heat treating. Unfortunately, it is more than the mere mortal can sharpen with normal tools.

Heat treating of any of the materials from ATS-34 up requires very good control and testing equipment to yield the best compromise between hardness and flexibility.

Some carbon steels can be heat treated to a crystal structure called bainite. Bainite is hard and flexible ... for example an 8" bowie blade a 1/4" thick made of L6 ht's to bainite at a hardness of RC 59-60 can be bend almost 90 degrees and it will return to straight or near straight AND the edge won't even chip. But it is not corrosion resistant and requires considerable care in real use. Knives for cutting competitions are often made of materials heat treated to bainite.

Hi a have been looking at the Cold steel master hunter and it looks also good to me and it is cheeper than the Fjallkniven F1, but what is the difference between these two and who is better.
Cold Steel Model 36JSK Stainless Master Hunter AUS-8A Blade Steel
or
Cold Steel Model 36C Master Hunter Carbon V Blade Steel

My test for a hunting knife is to start out with a sharp blade and do a deer entirely with that knife , without resharpening ; dressing out, skinning,complete butchering including boning .That way I know if the blade length, steel and shape is good, the handle shape and material is good.The Master Hunter passes the test easily !!!I picked the stainless because of convenience of not worrying about rust.Some seem to have problems sharpening stainless .Almost all my sharpening is done freehand with a diamond rod and I have no problems getting a sharp edge quickly and easily.The carbon V is going to perform just as well , other than rust.Some will say it's easier to sharpen.Either way it's a fine knife !

IMO it's kinda hard to beat a Cold Steel Master Hunter for the money. They are pretty much a bullet-proof knife.
To me a Fallkniven F-1 is just a smoother, sleeker version of the same. To compare the two would maybe be like comparing a Ruger #1 to a Dakota Model 10. Similar in executiion but one is a good bit "sweeter".
If you always hunt in the rain and/or don't like caring for your knives get the stainless. If you care for your knives well and like a slightly finer edge try the Carbon V.............DJ

mstarling,that is a very informative post. Thanks for posting it. What you have overlooked is VG 10 and some others that are used frequently like AUS 6 and AUS 8.

The steel I am most interested in is the powdered steels like SGPS and 3G used in the Fallkniven line of blades. I would like to know where you think that the 3G would fall in the ranks,and how commonplace the powdered steel will be in the future. I am understanding that S30V is a powdered steel. How would S30V compare to 3G?

I have the little Fallkniven folder in the powder steel blade. It's excellent steel. It's probably a little hard to compare since I've only got the one blade with it compared to several S-30V blades but with that Caveat I'd say that the Fallkniven powder steel is harder than S-30V and seems to hold an edge longer. It's also a little easier to sharpen but that could just be the small blade. I doubt that it will be as tough as S-30V but in a small blade you don't hack and chop like you would with a larger blade where toughness is more important.

Blue Ridge knives had a number of Fallkniven's with the laminated VG-10 blades last year. They may still have some left. I bought a std F-1 and S-1 as well as a Micarta handled F-1 with the laminated VG-10. The laminated blades are a little harder than the std ones and should keep an edge a little longer. I think my local guy might still have a couple if you are interested and can't find them elsewhere..............DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
I have the little Fallkniven folder in the powder steel blade. It's excellent steel. It's probably a little hard to compare since I've only got the one blade with it compared to several S-30V blades but with that Caveat I'd say that the Fallkniven powder steel is harder than S-30V and seems to hold an edge longer. It's also a little easier to sharpen but that could just be the small blade. I doubt that it will be as tough as S-30V but in a small blade you don't hack and chop like you would with a larger blade where toughness is more important.

Blue Ridge knives had a number of Fallkniven's with the laminated VG-10 blades last year. They may still have some left. I bought a std F-1 and S-1 as well as a Micarta handled F-1 with the laminated VG-10. The laminated blades are a little harder than the std ones and should keep an edge a little longer. I think my local guy might still have a couple if you are interested and can't find them elsewhere..............DJ

dj,the current production Fallkniven blades are mostly Laminated VG 10,except for the Tre Kroner series and the U2. I have a solid VG 10 F1,and two H1's that have been out of production for about three or four years. I'm suprised that you didn't grab an F1/3G while they were available. Your collection of knives is awesome. 3G has the exact same powder steel core as the U2 SGPS,just different steel on the outside laminations.

There is a limited production H1/3G series coming out as we speak. It is a limited run and will sell out soon. They aren't cheap,but IMHO will be the cat's meow as to the perfect hunting knife. Cheers!

For whitetail deer, I use a Spyderco Moran fixed blade. It has a flat ground VG-10 blade and holds an edge very well. It is a mean little slicer. It was used to field dress about 6 deer over one weekend last year and it held its' edge throughout.

If you're into folders, you might check out the Spyderco Impala. It has a very nice VG-10 skinning-type blade and has a guthook or no-guthook variations. The G-10 handle is very grippy.

After many years, I have to say that knives are a lot like women, there are many choices out there, but only one will fit your requirements exactly. You just have to look.

As far as hard steels are concerned like 440C, 154CM, ATS-34 conventional methods of sharpening are not really suitable. I get my blades sharpened by a master knife maker who puts razor edges on them using machine sharpening techniques. Then knife remains sharp for several visits to the field and constant maintenance is not required.

Two hunting knives with 440C (Vacuum Hardened 440C at about Rc 61) with Ivory Handles (Native American Artist Rod Chappel)



Another example with 154CM coated with Titanium Nitride GOLDCOAT. This is a zero maintenance knife.

quote:

Originally posted by Slatts:
For whitetail deer, I use a Spyderco Moran fixed blade. It has a flat ground VG-10 blade and holds an edge very well. It is a mean little slicer. It was used to field dress about 6 deer over one weekend last year and it held its' edge throughout.

If you're into folders, you might check out the Spyderco Impala. It has a very nice VG-10 skinning-type blade and has a guthook or no-guthook variations. The G-10 handle is very grippy.

I too have one of the Spyderco Bill Moran knives and it really has impressed me like no other Spyderco knife has!

I thought the handle was a bit funny looking at first, but it is efficient and confortable.

The steel holds an edge extremely well, but does require my diamond sharpener -- oilstone just takes forever!

The sheath is utilitarian (Kydex) but after cutting my thigh when another belt knife cut through its sheath, I have warmer feelings for Kydex!

John

quote:

Originally posted by small fish:

dj,the current production Fallkniven blades are mostly Laminated VG 10,except for the Tre Kroner series and the U2. I have a solid VG 10 F1,and two H1's that have been out of production for about three or four years. I'm suprised that you didn't grab an F1/3G while they were available. Your collection of knives is awesome. 3G has the exact same powder steel core as the U2 SGPS,just different steel on the outside laminations.

There is a limited production H1/3G series coming out as we speak. It is a limited run and will sell out soon. They aren't cheap,but IMHO will be the cat's meow as to the perfect hunting knife. Cheers!

Smallfish, I didn't know that F-1/3g's were available, you are correct I'd of loved to have one.
Where have you seen the H1/3G's available?...............DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by small fish:

dj,the current production Fallkniven blades are mostly Laminated VG 10,except for the Tre Kroner series and the U2. I have a solid VG 10 F1,and two H1's that have been out of production for about three or four years. I'm suprised that you didn't grab an F1/3G while they were available. Your collection of knives is awesome. 3G has the exact same powder steel core as the U2 SGPS,just different steel on the outside laminations.

There is a limited production H1/3G series coming out as we speak. It is a limited run and will sell out soon. They aren't cheap,but IMHO will be the cat's meow as to the perfect hunting knife. Cheers!

Smallfish, I didn't know that F-1/3g's were available, you are correct I'd of loved to have one.
Where have you seen the H1/3G's available?...............DJ

I tried to PM you but with no success. I'll try again but you could try to PM me and I might be able to respond that way. I guess it's a firewall problem or something.

I got your PM thanks!..........DJ

The CS Master Hunter is now available with a VG-1 San Mai blade . www.coldsteel.com

Benchmade Drop Point Hunter....great knife. Just came back from safari where my skinner, after first using it on my Wildebeest, proceeded to ask for it on the other animals I havested. About a 3.75-4" blade...with nice handle. Takes and keeps an edge well. About $85-90 from most places on the internet.
There's my $.02.

Gary