For those that use the 200 gn proj in the 06 this may be of some intrest
RIFLE WIN M70 30/06 26 INCH BARREL
CASE LAPUA
PRIMER FED 215
playing around with some VVN 165 /AND 200 GN noslers these were the velocities i got
62 gns 2770
63 gns 2820
64 gns 2870
65 gns 2905

sent these loads of to be pressure tested and these were the results
62 gns 59100 psi
63 gns 63200 psi
64 gns 66300 psi
65 gns 71000 psi

will use the 63 gn load for an up comming brown bear hunt
Regards Daniel

The real question here is WHAT POWDER??? or was it plastique

You seem to have missed it...the man said VVN165..

My only question is how in the heck did you manage to stuff 65 grains into that '06 case with a 200-grain bullet!!!? That must have been one seriously compressed load!

no problems fitting 65 gns in the 06 case ... and yes it was compressed
daniel

Fantastic velocities!! Equal to what I used to load in my .308 Norma....

I'd be interested in knowing who did the pressure testing and how they did it.
Thanks
Elmo

the pressure testing was done for me at the Australian defence industries by the head ballistics person
rgards daniel

For all of we stateside reloaders;

200 grain Speer in an '06:
H4831sc/ 61.5 grains Fed 210 primer ( or CCI Lg rifle)
Velocity in a 24 inch barrel out of Winchester Model 70 and Weatherby Vanguard: 2825-2850

In a 26 inch Barrel in a 1917 Enfield ( winchester production) 2875 to 2900.

Who needs a Magnum?

Hmmmm......

For starters, maximum SAAMI spec for the .30-06 is 60,000 psi (50,000 cup). So anything over 62 grains of H4831 with the 200 grain bullet is over the limit, according to the mentioned testing.

And that test data is pretty far out of line with the loading manuals, which give a far less rosy picture.

Hodgdon lists 59.0 grains as max. This gave 2690 fps and 49,000 cup pressure in a 26" barrel.

Barnes lists 59.0 grains also as max. This gave 2680 fps in a 24" barrel. No pressure listed.

Sierra lists 56.7 grains as max. This gave 2600 fps in a 26" barrel. No pressure listed.

Nosler doesn't even list H4831 as a recommended powder with the 200 grain bullet in .30-06, probably due to the extreme over-compression required to achieve decent velocities.

The 61.5 grain load of H4831 which was mentioned would probably yield about 2790 fps out of a 24" barrel, with the risk of solidifying the powder and/or pushing the bullet forward and changing the cartridge OAL.

KuduKing
Your right those are very hot!! As you can see the pressure spike in his Velocity readings from 64-65 gr load!!!! So I'm wonder if he is not shooting an Ackley Improved? That's what it looks like anyway!!?

no i was useing a standard 06 with a 26 inch tube
daniel

Guys,
that is why we handload and Lawyers do not.

My way of pressure testing anything has to be sort of simple since I am fresh out of contacts at the US Army Proving Grounds.

In a standard Winchester Model 70 these were loaded.

My simple way of checking for pressure problems is how stiff the primer is seated the next load.
When I do a load, I will them load 5 rounds and shoot them, and reload them 5 times. I compare how stiff the primer goes in the 6th time ( and along the way) as it did the first time, using new brass. If it is still stiff the 6th time, I consider the load safe in MY firearm.

This is only 2.5 grains over what the books list. If you look at older reload manuals, before Lawyers scrutinized everything in the industry, you can see loads where higher than today's stuff, altho the trend is reversing, due to handloaders complaining. ( the customer still talks, since we are spending our money)

I have found that with H4831 you can exceed the data by about 10% before things start getting HOT. And that is for my reference Not My reference for others. other powers are different and that is why you work it up yourself.

Load manuals are not called Bibles they are called Reference manuals. What might be fine in their test barrel might be hot in your rifle, or viceversa also.

And ":Nosler does not even list H 4831" big Deal, they tell you right in their books that they can't list every powder. GEESH, wake up.
If it is not there, it is not safe??

Handloading allows me to tailor the ammo to the hunt. I both load up or down. I don't need a 500 yd ammo for a 100 yd shot.

At the same time, for heavy cover for heavy game, or long range for heavy game: for the '06 a 200 grain load at 2800 fps, gives me max performance from the case.

If the manufacturers put it out, they would get $30.00 a box for it and call it High Energy, and it would sell. I do it at home and You people call me an Idiot.

And if you get high pressure with a load, ands want to keep the velocity, try having your chamber reamed out a little to be able to seat the bullet a little farther out if the magazine length will hold it.

Every one is a critic who think they are SMARTER THAN YOU.

Not to wade into the debate over loads, I just thought I'd point out a small but significant error in your post. The 1917 Enfield is not a rear-locking action. Perhaps you are thinking of the British Lee-Enfield, which is a rear locking action.

The 1917 Enfield and its sibling, the P-14, are actually front-locking actions based on the Mauser system. They are massive actions and have been used over the past seven or eight decades to house some of the biggest, meanest "elephant" cartridges, including the Weatherbys.

This is not to suggest, however, that you should "overload" them.

Kudu,

No one asked you to shoot anyone of my rifles or loads. Some asked what we did, and I said what I did.

You do what you want, however it really pisses me off when I get some theorist, who thinks If it is written in his book, then it is gospel, but if it isn't then it is dangerous.

My 1917 Enfield handles these loads just fine. A rifle will blow a primer long before it will blow a rifle up, unless you are being real stupid.

I am looking at a Speer Manual right now that has the 200 gr load with 4831 as 58 grains. Another Speer manual lists it as 60 grains.
A Hodgdon manual that lists it as 59 grains with a CUP pressure of 49,000, a Lyman Manual that lists it as 58 grains with a CUP pressure of 46,300 pounds. This is also in the rifles that I have throated to take this bullet seated out.

So how can you profess to be such an expert, on My rifles or what I give when someone asks what do we do?

I am sorry but critics who think they know everything just really piss me off.

Sort of like our own Hilary Clinton on the Reloading section, huh?

Well, I could not care much less what others shoot in their rifles (so long as I'm not standing close by.)
But I'll tell you I stuffed 59.5gr of H4831 behind a Speer 200gr, and not only was it quite compressed, and had to be seated about .05" too deep to spring back to my COL, but it didn't even break 2500 fps out of my 24" bbl! (Standard and mag primers were tried.)
Not the powder for me.
I continue to experimaent, and look forward to getting back to everyone with a safe and accurate 2800 fps.
[err... I mean 2700 fps!. Yikes!]

[ 06-10-2003, 11:22: Message edited by: Bwana-be ]

Bwana:

That is a perfect example of how rifles differ from others.

I do highlight that I had the chamber reamed out a little in mine to have the bullet long enough to fit into the entire magazine length. This will increase case capacity and reduce pressure of a load, until it touches the lands at least.

The 3 rifles that this is shot in, are a Winchester throated out, a Weatherby that was freebored at the factory ( the gunsmith checked it and said so, took his word) and the 1917 Enfield which was originally long throated to take the old 220 gr RN loads of WW One.

If you can't get 2700 with H 4831, or IMR 4831, then I wonder if your rifle will at all. Nosler manual likes RL 22 for that, listing a velocity of 2675 or something close using 58 grs, also listed in the new Sierra manual is a velocity of 58 grains of H4831 of 2700. all are in the ball park, barrel length also plays a part,
2 rifles have a 24 inch barrel and one has a 26 inch.