How big should a horse be to comfortably carry a 300 pound man? And do say go on a diet and use a smaller horse. I want to know in case an outfitter matches me up with a too small horse.

Hello;
So, we got good old 300 lb.of you, plus 100 lbs. of saddle and gear. According to my resident expert, the wife, a horse should carry no more than a quarter of his body weight, especially over a distance. You need one in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1600 lbs. and should be looking for a Draft cross.
Grizz

First of all, put the gear on another horse. (Saddle bags, rifle etc) saddle will be 40lbs. So that makes you at least 340-350. 25% rule is right. So a 1400lb horse. Which = a big big quarter horse and some type of draft horse.

Wouldn't it be unusual for an outfitter to have a large enough horse then? Most of the stock I have seen has been quarter horse ancestry. It seems to be rare to see draft horse stock. How about a mule?? I have seen enormous mules.

I know from your information that it would be very wise to ask the outfitter if he has large enough stock.

And he has to be tall enough so your feet don't drag on the ground.

For me about 14-2 hands and 1100 pounds, but I'm 170 pounds. A stout quarter type horse that is 15-15-2 hands and really weighs 1200-1250 will carry a 250-300 pound man ok. Go weigh some of them, if they are in working shape, it takes a big horse to weigh 1200 pounds, again I'm talking quarter horses. A lot of mine really won't go over 1050 pounds in fighting shape, I'm talking hard and drawn up, not fat.

I weigh in at about 105kg:s and my wife will "let me" (I paid for the animal!) ride her horse. It´s of Hannover stock, stands 174cm at the shoulder and weighs about 500kg:s give or take. Great beast of burden except when he gallops -that´s when are raods usually part !

So, how more can a mule carry? Or can it really carry more weight?

I always heard the "mules can carry more" lines too. I am not 100% convinced however I will say from expeirence that a mule can handle the "dead" weight of a pack saddle and gear better. Why? I don't know.

As far as the weight thing and what size of a horse don't sweat it outfittters and guides see all shapes and sizes, and if they are any kind of a horseman at all it will be a toss up as to whose safety and comfort they are more concerned with you or the horse. They will fix you right up with an adequate horse.

Being heavy is not so bad as long as it is stretched out over a tall frame. 6' 6" and 300 is not as bad as 5'5" and 200.

Hello;
Let's not forget all of the above depends on the physical condition of the horse or mule as well. A fat, flabby horse, just off pasture, isn't going to pack anyone too far with ease. As for outfitters horses, the ones I know, use what's cheap at the auction. One guy prefers grey horses for the simple reason that they are held less desirable, since they are reportably more prone to skin tumors. hence, he can usually get a bargain.
Grizz

quote:

You need one in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1600 lbs. and should be looking for a Draft cross.
Grizz

I have one for sale.

Begian/Morgan-Quarterhorse

16-2 hands, about 1500#s when he is fit.

I have one for sale too, he's a Belgian/ Thoroughbred cross, a bit more refined than a QH draft cross. He is 7.5 years old and 18 hands. Gentle giant and very willing to please and carries weight very well.

He can carry weight better since he is reletively tall and porportionally built with long legs.

He likes hunting too and will try and beat you to the kill!

Hello;
We had a couple of ladies here a few years ago, promoting these crosses as a separate Breed. They called them Mountainview Warmbloods.
Grizz

I can see why, they are like sitting on top a mountain. What a view!

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
Hello;
So, we got good old 300 lb.of you, plus 100 lbs. of saddle and gear. According to my resident expert, the wife, a horse should carry no more than a quarter of his body weight, especially over a distance. You need one in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1600 lbs. and should be looking for a Draft cross.
Grizz

Ditto - verbatim
I really laffed at the "resident expert" part! It's the same here at Rancho Almosta!

quote:

Posted May 13, 7:35 PM
I have one for sale too, he's a Belgian/ Thoroughbred cross, a bit more refined than a QH draft cross. He is 7.5 years old and 18 hands. Gentle giant and very willing to please and carries weight very well.

He can carry weight better since he is reletively tall and porportionally built with long legs.

He likes hunting too and will try and beat you to the kill!

~Ann

The Morgan was recognized as having the best weight carrying capacity relative to size.

I big factor in this is the fact that Morgans (as well as Arabians) have 1 less vertebrea in their back making them less prone to back problems.

Morgans were the prefered breed of the U.S. cavalry. It was said that a Morgen (1,100#s) could carry 20% of it's body weight (220#) 20 miles in a day on 20# of forage for extended periods.

I just sold a full blooded Morgan. she was only 14-3, but was built like a tank, probably from military stock. She looked like a miniature draft horse, arched neck, wide set legs and very robust bone structure. She was owned and ridden by a man that weighed 285#s. All of the horses that I have kept for any length of time have had some Morgan blood and the "short back" characteristic. I owned 2 full blooded Quarterhorses. They seemed very "long in the back" compared to the Morgan blood lines. The Quarter horses did not seem as level headed as the Morgans either.

Please do not refer to a QH/draft cross if you are speaking of the horse I mentioned as the Morgan cross makes a much better "work horse" than either the QH/draft or Thoroughbred/draft crosses. I also own the mother of this gelding and she is Morgam/QH. She was "accidentaly " bred to a Belgian stallion, I bought them as a package deal. Long legs and long backs may make a horse fast, but short heavy bone structure and a short back is much better for carrying weight.

16-2 is a long way from the ground if you have to get off in a hurry, another 6" (18 hands) is even worse.

OEH

Some of the equation will have to be:

what kind of territory are you riding in? Mountains, flatland etc.

How good a rider are you. A good rider will ride 'lighter' than his weight. If you use your stirrups and legs, as opposed to sitting on the saddle, you will be a lot easier on the horse.

A mule can carry 20% of his body weight in a pack string, a horse can carry 10%...

However this does not equate to live weight of a man in a saddle that should help the animal as it moves...

I would want a horse that wieghed 1300 pounds and stood near 16 hands for a 300 lb. man, unless that man was a very good horseman, then a 15 hand 1100 lb. horse could pack him pretty well..

Let your outfitter know what size you are and he will figure it out. If he doesn't have a horse big enough for you, he can get one.

you shouldn't expect your outfitter to have a large draft-type horse to accomodate you. Horses are expensive and expecting them to have a horse for you and another for your gear, god knows what you are packing, is unfair to your outfitter. call him first and ask him if he has a horse to accomodate you. If not, dont go, find another way to hunt.

I'd let the outfitter know your weight and I sure won't second guess him on a horse he has for you. If he has been in business for awhile he more than likely has had afew customers in the 300lb range. Well good luck.

The two outfitters I've worked for both keep draft horses for just such hunters. Heavy hunters (and most are fat, not just big) are almost the rule nowadays.

I'm a little perplexed by Ryan's post. If I'm booking a horseback hunt I damn well expect the outfitter to have a horse for me and another pack horse for my gear and probably someone else's too.

Ralphie,
Most outfitters that use horses can put you on a good one and a pack animal to carry all of your gear. However, when you start getting into special needs I would consider an alternative to horses. Draft horses are ungangly and not as sure footed as a good quarter horse or a good mule. Most of my horses can carry a 300lb man but non-horse people need to realize the strain that can be put on animals, especially in mountains or rough terrain.
If you are big, tell you guide. Chances are he'll have a horse than can do it but I'd be careful with the word 'expect'.

Ryan,

I agree wholeheartedly to tell the outfitter your size. The two I work for ask while you are booking the hunt. I understand how this works. What confused me was you saying you shouldn't expect an outfitter to have a horse for you and another for your gear. That is an expectation that goes without saying on horseback hunts in the Rockies at least. And you'd be surprised at how well some draft horses do in the mountains. I didn't believe it either until I saw it. Granted it is not ideal (but then neither are fat hunters), but it can work very well.

How big should a horse be? I'd say he should be big enough so that all four feet touch the ground. Ok, I'll be good and shut up now. Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one.
Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

Draft horses are ungangly and not as sure footed as a good quarter horse or a good mule.

My Belgian-cross is like 4-wheel drive.

When the Quarterhorses are lunging to get up a steep stream bank Sebastian just power walks his way up. I am not a very experienced rider and I weigh 280#s. The extra power in the draft-cross' hinquarters allow them to "lean into it" and power their way up.

In Europe there are several breeds of "Warmblood". These breeds have been developed from Draft-cross bloodlines for cross-country and hunter/jumper applications. Their temperment is usually much more "level headed" than pure "hot blooded" breeds.

Just a thought here,and not a smart assed one...My Grandad was large,not fat 6'8" 320lbs. used to get either on a perseron (hope I spelled write) or as a second choice a larger quarter horse...I've found that ecspecially with quarter horses theres a lot of variance in bloodlines and size..Kinda like golden retrievers..I'd start with the perseron. Struck me as a well mannered,rideable work horse...Might be worth asking

One thing I can highly highly recommend is that you find someplace close to home that has horses and make sure you ride one every couple days for an hour or two before you go on this outfitter journey.

Or else bring with you a very large jar of Motrin 800 Milligram

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
One thing I can highly highly recommend is that you find someplace close to home that has horses and make sure you ride one every couple days for an hour or two before you go on this outfitter journey.

Or else bring with you a very large jar of Motrin 800 Milligram

Extremely true. Forgot to mention it. Its exactly the same as the guy who went to the tanning salon a few times before heading south, and the guy who went to the equator lily white. Ones havin a good time and hes comfortable. Ones not....Not only that,there will be things people will notice about how you ride,if you've practiced,that will tell them,atleast he gave it is all. Nothing pisses people more than somebody holding things up if he didnt try..If you got in some riding time and still make a screw up,Hey that can happen to anybody

You got a lot of good answers. One point, the outfitter needs to know you size. I have seen some that actually have a hunter wieght limit (and it was 250). You didn't mention where you'll be hunting but I doubt it will be in the middle of a wheat field in Oklahoma. Horses usually mean mountains. Horses carry-weight is relative to the work they are being asked to do. Ever wonder why wagon teams consist of 4-6 horses when 2 can get it moving and keep it moving? It's because the world isn't flat. You need more horsepower (notice how I slipped that in) to do more work. There aren't a whole lot of mountain horses that are over 16 hands. You may be doing a lot of walking and leading.

I know. I weigh 320, down from 360. Plus I'm 6'3". Another good point is being so far overweight (you didn't mention being over 7' tall so this is just an assumption on my part) is that you are out of shape and may or may not have any horse experience. I have over 40 years worth and can ride all day after being ground-bound for 10 years. For some reason I've never gotten saddle sore. Not to say I was born in a saddle but Mom did get one for me at her baby shower.

I wouldn't just show up and expect to have a horse to work for you and then you get up and ride all day. Like mentioned above, go ride and start climbing stairs.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I have one for sale too, he's a Belgian/ Thoroughbred cross, a bit more refined than a QH draft cross. He is 7.5 years old and 18 hands.

Can you see a 300Lb'er climbing up 18 hands of horse? Ladders are such a pain to pack!

I weigh 170 and you won't find me climbing around on a 16 hand horse, much less 18 hands. As far as I'm concerned, they could get rid of all of them over 15-2, I don't own anything over 15 hands. I also don't want to ride amything that's bred to work in harness, no more than I would let someone pull a cart with one of my cutters.

Old Elk Hunter,

You show more concern and possible knowledge through your question than most of the responses.
If you book a reputable outfitter and let him know about you the worry is ended. They are not stupid nor are they going to risk their horses.
I've spent many years making my living horseback, and have done most everything on a variety of different sized horses. I do have a prefernce on what I want in a horse to do certain jobs but most jobs can be accomplished outside of that, those preferences are not mandatory.
I think see enough in your question not to have a concern about you horseback. Listen to your guide/outfitter if he makes riding suggestions and you will be fine. You sound concerned enough that I believe you are allready considering weight loss.
I felt frustated at the sillyness of what I read in response to your question. Just as in firearms be aware of what is written. After all how many times have we read that a ceertain calibre and or rifle combo is the only thing to use for a hunt.

All need to remember that 300 + pounds of live weight, that helps a horse along, is not as hard as you think compared to the dead weight of a loaded pack.

alot of this has been covered...

I own 44 horses ...

a GOOD outfitter will make sure you don't wear on his animals... albeit YOU have the responsibiblity to make the outfotter aware of your size at least a week beforeo you arrive.. he'll need to make sure he has an animal that fits you...

you said don't say this but.. unless you are 6'10"+ you will have a more enjoyable hunt if you loose soem wheight and get in shape.. if you are over weight and out of shape .. don't expect to have a good hunt.. you hunt will most likely involve trying to keep up with the guide and not having the opportunities an in shape hunter would have...

food for thought

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Draft horses are ungangly and not as sure footed as a good quarter horse or a good mule.

My Belgian-cross is like 4-wheel drive.

When the Quarterhorses are lunging to get up a steep stream bank Sebastian just power walks his way up. I am not a very experienced rider and I weigh 280#s. The extra power in the draft-cross' hinquarters allow them to "lean into it" and power their way up.

In Europe there are several breeds of "Warmblood". These breeds have been developed from Draft-cross bloodlines for cross-country and hunter/jumper applications. Their temperment is usually much more "level headed" than pure "hot blooded" breeds.

I agree completely with this whole post. I'll tell you what, we now have Arabs, Thoroughbreds, and Holsteiners. The latter are German warm bloods, and Lester, my personal favorite nag, is 19-1 hands tall, tough as steel, and weighs "a bunch". Still, he is as agile as danged near any Arab or Quarter Horse I've ever seen, and a heck of a lot faster than most. Also, very sure footed, very mild tempered, and eager to please. Until he got older, he was a U.S. Equestrian Team Grand Prix jumper, then an outstanding Dressage horse. Now he just enjoys living large. He could carry most 300-lb'ers like they were a box lunch.

You do need to match your frame to the horse, though and if you show up at 300 pounds without having been thoughtful enough to warn your oufitter of the situation, then you deserve whatever you get...including walking, if need be.

Your outfitter is your guide and the person who can show you where the game is, but he isn't your babysitter, and he isn't responsible for seeing into a crystal ball. If you are a big, strong man of a strapping 300 pounds of well-toned muscle, then tell him in advance. If you are a 300-lb. butterball, stay home until you get into physical shape. There is no reason for your outfitter to have to take an extra pack horse to tote your body out after the heart attack. Consideration cuts both ways in the hunting field.

Sorry to be so blunt, and I hope the "lard-ass" description does not fit you personally, but I have seen too many arrogant folks who think that just because they pay money for a hunt means they don't have to contribute anything else to its success.

Hope you are a big strong strapping dude, and if you are & tell your outfitter that, he will doubtless either fit you with the right cayuse, or tell you he can't. (...And likely refer you to some other outfitter who can supply what you need.)

Good luck....& bon temps.

I just re-read all your posts. I have gone from 334 lbs to 260 and will continue working on it until I am
back to 200 and in shape. Your posts showed me that it is impractical and undesireable to try to fit a horse
to me when it is easier for me to fit the horse. Until then I will use a 4x4 as my horse.

For you out of shape "large" guys it is worth the effort to shed the pounds. I used to be on expensive hypertension medicine. Now I am completely off meds and have normal blood pressure. I sure feel a hell of
a lot better and more frequently climb that hill to see what's on the other side. Another side benefit is that
I will probably live longer giving me more chances to go elk hunting, either by horse or 4x4.

Thanks for the "horse sense".

Good for you on the wieght loss! How'd you do it? The more wieght you lose the easier excersise will be.

Nelsonted1,

The only change I made lately was to take over the cooking at home. I cook good meals but after smelling it all cook I kind of loose my appetite. I also tend to cook only fresh stuff and lots of steamed vegetables. We used to
order in pizza a lot and I don't like pizza. I can cook a good meal for a lot less than a typical pizza costs.
Maybe it was just a switch to better food and almost no fast food anymore. Whatever it is I like. I dropped
another 5 lbs this week. I can now really feel my old body changing. I will be so glad when I don't have to
look for triple extra large clothes. I am getting really interested in this years elk season. I should enjoy
it much more. By next year I think I can plan on a horse back hunt. There are plenty of places to ride horses
around here, and I plan on riding alot before the hunting season. I am also planning on booking a summer camping trip in the area I plan to hunt. Get to know the outfitter and the hunting area ahead of time.

Hello;
I had to throw in a bumper sticker I saw in my trvels the other day. Ride a Draft. It'l make your Butt look smaller.
Grizz

Hey OEH, good job and keep up the good work!