I fell off an 18+ hand horse once. That sure is a looooong way down. Forgetting the weight carrying part, I like a horse that you can step into the stirrup of without getting on something or having to jump for it.

Glad to see you took responsibility in loosing weight. Most importantly you have benifited yourself and your own health.
Interesting to see tall the comments about this horse or that horse.. funny to see they variations of misnomers too! ie: one horse is better at climbing than the other or one breed is better at this or that. As well as the people who booked outfitters seem to know how the guy runs his business. ie: I don't know many outfitters that would take anyone over 250 lbs.,The outfitter will find a horse to fit you if you weight 300 lbs. LOL!!!
I see absolutly no benifit to having an 18 hand horse. I rarely have seen an 18 hand horse. Not sure most here know exactly what a hand is....what breed exactly are these 18 hand horses. There are very few breeds that get to be that tall.

Rick, need to get a copy of the AQHA journal see alot of halter horses stallions now 16h plus then when you get to the hunter under saddle they are over 17 hands. Alot of jumping horses over 18h. Alot of big horse with athletic ability and I enjoy watching them perform and I've ridden afew in my day. I think you said that you run a rent string so those type horses won't work in your rental business or like the Sombrero Ranch they run afew hundred rental horses.

I realize you hunter/jumper stuff with the standard breds ans Saddle Breds ect. can get 18H but I see no real use for a horse in the hills of over 16H and that's even pretty big to go mountain pounding on...

I see so many "flatlanders" come out here and rent horses and because they watchedsome western movie they want the biggest freakin horse they can find. Truth be known shorter big boned horses are the cats ass for mountain pounding.

I don't rent horses, I have a Guest Ranch and Oufitting Business

Rick, if you need the info, a "hand" is 4 inches. At least it is out here in the flat lands. I've seen lotsa flat land in Wyoming. Also, lotsa "cowboys" with creases down the front of their jeans.

well now.. truth be told there are very few cowboys left in this world... and the flat land we have here is desert.. much different than whats east of the mississippi... you tallest mountain in the east is lower than my front porch!

Creases in the front of there jeans huh.. did ya ask them where they are from? They probobly had leather aussy hats too... bwaaahahahaaa
Not that a true stockman isn't tough as nails caus ethey are but some flatlanders here seem to think that leather makes a hat.. nope!

you know the real deal when ya see it...

I doubt you've seen lotsa cowboys with creases in there jeans...

quote:

Originally posted by Ric Horst:
I realize you hunter/jumper stuff with the standard breds ans Saddle Breds ect. can get 18H but I see no real use for a horse in the hills of over 16H and that's even pretty big to go mountain pounding on...

I see so many "flatlanders" come out here and rent horses and because they watchedsome western movie they want the biggest freakin horse they can find. Truth be known shorter big boned horses are the cats ass for mountain pounding.

I don't rent horses, I have a Guest Ranch and Oufitting Business

I know afew guys that Rodeo for a living have creases jeans don't think you are big enought to talk your stuff to those guys about what real cowboys wear.
One thing I've learned, good horses is a good horse if he does what he is bred to do and does it well and likes his job.

Really Tom...and just how well do you know me to be able to spit out a statement like that. Do you know what I know? Just how big do I have to be to be able to talk to those that where real cowboy gear? Just so you know it isn't called gear.. its Cack...

I may have not been "cowboying" Long and I never claimed to be a cowboy... nor do I want to.

I am a horseman...

quote:

don't think you are big enought to talk your stuff to those guys about what real cowboys wear.

oh really... funny I have lots and lots of friends that are the real deal... I talk with them every day...

Horse are my business and 90% of my life.. so I'll talk whenever you are ready!

quote:

A mule can carry 20% of his body weight in a pack string, a horse can carry 10%...

However this does not equate to live weight of a man in a saddle that should help the animal as it moves...

Once again, Mr. Atkinson speaks the truth plainly and clearly. And please remember that those percentages include tack and gear, not just rider weight. I run a small dude string and have a 250lb limit - period. And I have two larger horses: one a Quarter / Shire cross mare and one a Morgan / Percheron cross gelding. At a certain point it ceases to be an issue of how much the horse can carry as it becomes how well the rider can work with the horse. You don't just sit on the animal and ride along like in a truck. You must be able to balance and move and keep your muscles engaged in what is going on; ESPECIALLY in the mountains.

Please, I'm new here and don't wish to insult anyone, just speak the truth on this issue to keep someone from making a poorly informed decision to the detriment of both horse and rider. My personal experience has been that physically out-of-condition (and inexperienced) riders are unable to do the work necessary to make their horse (or mule's) job doable on a 1 hour dude ride, let alone day after day in the saddle in difficult terrain on a hunt. I applaud the original poster's efforts to take control of his life and health back and do something about it. It's neither healthy nor safe for the rider or the horse to carry someone large and physically out of condition.

One last note: while we are discussing the size of a horse, remember that once again there comes a point where something you need a stump or log or boulder to mount is going to be a miserable mount in the mountains. If the rider is large enough that a monsterous horse is required, then my advice would be the rider is probably too large to ride at all. That's just the plain facts of it.

You are on the right track OEH. The better shape you are in the better you will be able to cope with the demands of a horseback hunt. Get some practice riding before you go so you will begin getting comfortable riding a horse. Learn to ride, after all, the worst thing you can do on the back of a horse is nothing.

Goodluck

Altitude sickness can be another factor to add on an out of shape "flatlander". If the trailride gets really fierce and the rider has to get off to help the horse will they/ can they do it?

quote:

The Morgan was recognized as having the best weight carrying capacity relative to size.

I big factor in this is the fact that Morgans (as well as Arabians) have 1 less vertebrea in their back making them less prone to back problems.

Morgans were the prefered breed of the U.S. cavalry. It was said that a Morgen (1,100#s) could carry 20% of it's body weight (220#) 20 miles in a day on 20# of forage for extended periods.

I just sold a full blooded Morgan. she was only 14-3, but was built like a tank, probably from military stock. She looked like a miniature draft horse, arched neck, wide set legs and very robust bone structure. She was owned and ridden by a man that weighed 285#s. All of the horses that I have kept for any length of time have had some Morgan blood and the "short back" characteristic. I owned 2 full blooded Quarterhorses. They seemed very "long in the back" compared to the Morgan blood lines. The Quarter horses did not seem as level headed as the Morgans either.

Please do not refer to a QH/draft cross if you are speaking of the horse I mentioned as the Morgan cross makes a much better "work horse" than either the QH/draft or Thoroughbred/draft crosses. I also own the mother of this gelding and she is Morgam/QH. She was "accidentaly " bred to a Belgian stallion, I bought them as a package deal. Long legs and long backs may make a horse fast, but short heavy bone structure and a short back is much better for carrying weight.

16-2 is a long way from the ground if you have to get off in a hurry, another 6" (18 hands) is even worse.

I love the Morgan for family history reasons, but I am 6'8" and between 250 and 260 pounds [once larger, but working in the forests of No Calif requires a lot of hiking]. My inseam is 40 inch. So, how many hands would be best for a boy my size?

quote:

I know afew guys that Rodeo for a living have creases jeans don't think you are big enought to talk your stuff to those guys about what real cowboys wear

Yeah Ok Tom... Rodeo for a living.. you must be a special guy to know "a few of them". Seeing as they are very few of them to be found. Rodeo for a living, unless they are fully sponsored they make no money.

ok back to horses....

quote:

Morgans were the prefered breed of the U.S. cavalry. It was said that a Morgen (1,100#s) could carry 20% of it's body weight (220#) 20 miles in a day on 20# of forage for extended periods.

Um well .. any horse will carry 20% of its body weight , that is really standard for any horse, not just a morgan.

Don't get caught up in the breed thing. So maany people worry about the lines and breeding. It really isn't that way unless you show or have performance horses.

If you are 6'8" and 250 to 260 you are really more or less hieght and weight proportionate. That is a good thing. Where people run into problems is the fat guys who can't handle their own weight. It is one thing to sit there like a blob and wabble with the horse as it walks. It is another to activly ride and help the horse walk down the trail.
You really want to look for a sure footed draft or Belgian, Percheron type cross. We have a few for the bigger guys and they do quite well. Most of ours average about 15.2 and are built well. We have one who is 16 and gos 1600 lbs but he is exceptionally large and gentle as a dead pig.
You don't need a 16+ hand horse however the tall ones do go through the rough spots a bit better being able to step over things.
You main concerns should be gentleness ( you seem to have limited experience ) so you need an older type horse 12yrs+ one that has had some miles put on it. One that is neck reined and knows his job. You then need to worry about a good saddle that will fit him. If you goe cheap, you screw everything up when you put sores on him.

quote:

You then need to worry about a good saddle that will fit him. If you goe cheap, you screw everything up when you put sores on him.

Ric--

I appreciate your help very much. I always looked at the saddle like I do my boots, and I do not skimp on footwear.

My experiences in the last 15 years have been limited, but prior to that I was well versed and rode often. It is time to get back into the saddle. Especially since one of my knees [big guy disease] does not particularly like the Wilderness Areas as much as I do. Hunting after a 15 mile pack to my camp was no fun with a puffed up knee the next day.

I would like to use the horse to help me or possibly just help carry some of the gear sometimes. It will also help me get further into the area like I did in my 20s. I know the late 30s shouldn't stop me, but the knee might. I still find 6-8 mile days in adverse terrian at work, but I try to limit it.

I'm glad to help..

what I think you looking to do id learn to pack... not an easy thing to learn or do and you need totrain your horse a bit.. it al can be down and once learned very easy...

ask me any questions ya like, I'll be glad to help in anyway

Here is what you would look like if done right

Doesn't Texas have a weight limit of 250 lbs for a horse or something like that? I just read it somewhere.

thats not a law..pretty much standard with anyone who has horses.... but it also depends on the horses size...

a good mule is hard to beat in the back country!

I am also a big guy 6'2 265lbs and I have two full blooded percherons and two percheron crosses. Even if I was not so big I would still have draft horses for riding and packing. They hold up better and they winter alot better than a smaller horse. I have never had a problem using big horses to hunt off of even in sheep country. Crossing big pieces of open tudra and swift silty rivers packing out moose is were they realy shine. The few guides in Alaska that use horses all use draft horses for the most part. And as far as that goes most of the guides I know in Canada all use draft or draft crosses. And for any buddy that thinks big horses or big men can't hunt in the ruff stuff I hope you get me as your sheep guide.

Most 300 pound folks will almost topple a horse just getting on him, and a 16 hand horse is pretty high and if you weigh 300 you probably can't reach the stirrup..Lots of problems go with that kind of weight and horses..

You sure do need to ride a good bit before you head out West..and remember getting on a horse in the mountains is not like getting on one in the pen..

Some folks with that kind of weight are just big and strong others are not, so use caution and be prepared before you go..

One thing everyone needs to be able to do is get off in a hurry when things go bad and not just fall back on the reins and pull a horse over on top of you...

When I ranched in the Texas Big Bend country on a 100,000 acre high desert ranch, I had 40 horses that I let my Mule Deer hunters rent and I furnished a illegal Mexican cowboy with each pair of hunters as a guide and to try and take care of my horses.

My hunters were the same team that Joe Namouth played for (can't recall who) but some of those guys were really big boys..The ones that could ride didn't hurt my horses for the most part other than they didn't have since enough to reset the saddle from time to time, and the Mexican boys were a little intimidated by them and wouldn't say anything.. The ones that could not ride or were poor horsemen sored them up pretty bad and by the time they left I had a month or so of getting most of my horses back to normal..I finally quit leasing them...

If someone is not at least a fairly decent horseman he can really sore up a good horses back and size doesn't seem to matter all that much or so it seemed to me..a couple of those linemen were ranch raised and they must have weighed near 250 to 300 and they had no problems. the rest had various degrees of problems with horses. I have to qualify this by reminding everyone that I am talking about horses being ridden in steep rough mountain country.

If your going to hunt on horses then better learn to ride as well as you can, it might even save you from some real injury or even your life. those of us that ride all the time have had and/or will have some real injurys sooner or later, even the very best...

Good for you. HUnting horseback is a kick (figure of speech!) and you'll enjoy it more being down 70 pounds, not to mention the other obvious health benefits. At 265, a 15.2 hand horse about 1150 pounds can handle you, but a 1250-1300 pounder is better, as previously mentioned, in good shape. I weigh about 160, ride a 40 pound saddle, plus aboout 15-18 pounds of gear (total about 220) and ride a 14.2 hand Foxtrotter that might weigh 900. He doesn't have any trouble. But I ride a lot, and your skill level does affect how you balance yourself on the horse. Good luck.

We've kicked this topic around so long, that I think we need a little Levity.
How big should the horse be? Well, I guess that depends on the size of the family, you are going to feed.
Grizz

For you big guys riding 16 to 18 hand draft horses, I hope you never have to step off on the downhill side!

Why is it that everytime someone thinks they have the best horse they invaribly compare it to a quarter horse and make claims about how much better their clumsy, big footed, dumb ass monster dullard is than the quarter horse..What that says is the quarter horse is the standard by which all horses are judged. Go figure.