Not not going to talk about those youtube videos . I want to know if the hannibal 577 was still readily made by asquare ? also theres a class3/machinist few miles down the road . i was thinking if i had a hannibal (plan on a 26" barrel) of showing him a picture of the accubrake and making a .585 one for the tyran and probably 3-5" long . also was thinking i could always send it to mpi for a custom synthectic stock weighted with a overall rifle of 15-17 lbs . also i know i can get brass made by rocky mountain cartridge . and looked at 650 gr soft point at 2100 fps for starting off . i plan on using it for hogs and maybe one day that elk/sable hunt or gemsbok.

what do is the general opinion of the p17 action used by asquare. i seen a interview of the original owner and he said they replaced alot of the internals with their own and they strengthen the action . i found a picture of the hannibal in 577 with a matte blued but im a blued/gloss kinda guy . also thinking no irons. just a low power scope like a 2-7x33 leupold .ive seen a little realoding data for it mostly 650,750 i want to ask what the possibilite of a 1000 gr bullet at say 2200 fps would be possible ? . i seen a sight that sales surplus 14.5 russian pulled bullets . they are .586 does .001" matter ?. ive shot a few heavy kickers and to me they best thing to do is to roll with the recoil and tuck it in tight .

I know there are a few people on this forum who have and like them so be patient, I am sure you will get some responses.

A few folk you may want to PM include Robgunbuilder, Ed Hubel and Bitterroot. Each has some alternative cartridges but of the same caliber, all have tremendous experience and are nice guys to boot.

Good luck

tk10ga,
Saeed's rifle has survived some real abuse. The A-Square Hannibals on Enfield actions bedded in railroad ties are tough to beat for a shooter.
If you get that MPI stock, get one that is a solid fill of fiberglass and epoxy, no foam and balsa wood kite sticks inside please.

My hair was dark brown 10 years ago when I met Mitch Carter at a 100 yard indoor range on Long Island. It started turning white after that.
Mitch let me shoot his 577Trex 42 times, over two sessions of shock therapy in April and June 2001.
He was just testing for accuracy of a few new loads, and trusted me to pull the trigger.
It was fun.

The idea of no iron sights, scope, and brake is a good idea for a "general purpose" 577Trex, IMHO.
Here's why:

The secret to controlling a 577Trex is to grip the forearm with your thumb over the top of the barrel.
Even a muzzle brake does nothing to reduce the torque of the rifle in recoil.
A right hand twist barrel will torque to the right.
Torque in the 577Trex is noticeable.
The rifle will jump off the rest and lay over to the right when fired if not gripped tightly with four fingers under and thumb over the top of barrel.
That thumb will block the view of iron sights,
or the rear sight might might block or mangle the thumb.

Mitch had a BBK-02 action in a solid fill MPI stock. He had a fixed power 6X Leupold scope, in dual dovetail fixed mounts, bases were soldered to the rifle.
It had a Pac-Nor barrel, but Harry McGowen built the rifle. Harry wasn't making that caliber barrel at the time.
26" barrel plus a screw-on muzzlebrake similar to a KDF. Weighed about 14 pounds all up, IIRC.

Not much rim-ring left on the bolt face, but it worked.

Some load data for you:

One of Master Mitch Carter's targets, 100-yard 3-shot:



One of my apprenticeship targets, 100 yard 3-shots:



The H4831 is the powder to use with 900 to 1000 grain bullets in the 577Trex.
It will also get you to 2400 fps with 750 grainers, with the best uniformity of velocity and pressure.

Used with too light a bullet, like the 650-grainer, it gives wild muzzle flash, and not top velocity, though still extremely accurate, as Mitch proved.

Here is the back of my wavy brown head burning some powder in a darkened 100-yard tunnel: Viper of Fire!



About .586-caliber bullets, pulled Russian 14.5 mm: maybe good
Check for actual diameters of bullets and groove diameter of barrels.
A .585-caliber barrel for the "user market" will likely be .586" grooved.
If so, perfect.
If actually .585"-grooved barrel, no problems with an extra .001" of jacketed bullet with mild steel or lead core.
Whats 1 more thou in 585 thou going to do?
Plus 0.171 percent.
Just start low and work up loads,
at least 10% below Mitch Carter levels.
Nominal 14.5mm is 0.586", eh?
14.5mm = 0.5708661" by arithmetic.

quote:

what do is the general opinion of the p17 action used by asquare. i seen a interview of the original owner and he said they replaced alot of the internals with their own and they strengthen the action

P17 is a great action but my biggest complaint with the A-square rifles is the hideous Coil Check stock and fact that Art chose to retain the cock on close in some of the rifles but I believe that may have been changed to cock on opening at some point.

How much recoil did that braked 577 trex have ? I think,i,can,take a large amount recoiol if I can keep it off my cheek.

Why? I guess when the 500 A2 just isn't quite enough lol

I'd like to build some version of a 577 someday and have been thinking about these questions myself.

The torque or twist in the TREX maybe aggravated by the 1:12 twist. I know Arts idea was to spin the bullets enough to get good stability for straight penetration in game. He loaded solid brass 750 grain bullets, which must be fairly long. But, 1:12 still seems a bit fast. I would consider 1:16. I would guess, WAG, that would tame the torque problem big time. FWIW, the traditional 577NE guns had 1:30 twist. Maybe due to ignorance (recent testing favoring fast twists) but as a point of reference, worth noting.

You mention 1000 grain bullets, so that is another factor in twist. And 14.5mm bullets. Are those long pointy heavy bullets? Will they fit in the magazine? Is that the only reason you ask about 1000 grains. You sure dont need 1000 grins for any intended purpose stated.

Would love to hear opinions on the effect of the over twist on TREX recoil.

Next, I just offer an opinion, I am not looking to pick another fight. This opinion is determines how I would build a rifle. Offered as food for thought.

I dont like muzzle brakes and would think a well designed 577/585/TREX rifle could be managable with 13-15 pound weight 24-26in hvy barrel. Same weight as the old doubles. Perhaps driving 750 gr at 2200 fps, plenty of whomp.

The other thing I dont care for are long barrels for hunting. A 26 inch barrel with a 4-6 inch brake is going to handle very poorly. The guy's here who do like brakes seem to build guns where brake&barrel come in near 24" total. Or guite a bit less. They end up with a short light gun and a brake that allows then too shoot it. I think if you already plan on a 26" barrel and enough weight, you wont need a brake. Save your hearing and stand up and shoot it the old fashioned way.

I would think the resale if that ever was a consideration would be a lot better with open sights included.

I dont think the 2-7 has the eye relief of some of the 1-4 safari type scopes. The Nikon Omega has 5 or 6 inch but maybe require special mount to get the scope an extra inch away. Seems like for a TREX extra long eye relief and little (or a lot of) extra effort on the mounts & base would be a real good idea.

Im a fan,of,the new redfields made by leupold they have 5" eye relief. I,was askin about 1000 gr well,axtually I,thimk there are 940 or,so . Figured loading some ap 578 trex shells mite be exciting . And as of the 500 asquare . Im want to get past the .50 limit but dnt want a destructive device like a 14.5x114 or the 20x102mm vulcan which I couks get from anzio. But to me their seems more nostagia behind the 577 to me over all over bigbores. I know it would be a heavy front heavy rifle with 26"+5" brake . But i adapt quicly

If I hold a perticulargun long enough and do dry firing exercise then it feels natual . Like I hate sgooting a 38 snub nose because im use to the large frame 44 and its long heavy 8" barrel kinda helps me aim

quote:

Originally posted by tk10ga:
How much recoil did that braked 577 trex have ? I think,i,can,take a large amount recoil if I can keep it off my cheek.

If you gotta ask, you ain't ready . . .

maybe but recoil isnt suppose to hit your cheek . isnt that something to do the the drop of comb or similar etc ? . i have a stock that didnt fit me right come up and hit my beside my face . i still shoot the hell out of it . theres nothing funner than having recoil pickup your front leg

the 577 tranny is a trex loaded less than 2500 ... LOL ..

look, the 577trex will give you more recoil than most humans can take, at full bore.. in fact, its pretty brutal.

the 577trex hannibal is a pretty nasty piece of work .. the mag box is welded onto the action, the stock is frickin huge chunk of cross tie, HEAVY, and it uses all the tricks possible to make it work, SINGLE STACK, and with a serously questionable use of a p14 bolt in a p17 action, to have something left to catch the rim .. i don't really care for rebated rims.. nor do i really dislike them ..

but some greenhorn, neverhasbeen will come along and try to tell you how the case design si so superior, without him actually having any basis.. he's kind of an idiot, really... and he's likely to selk identify.

If you want the biggest, meanest, super bigbore that can go into an enfield, get a 550 magnum .. and be done with it ...

if you GOTS to have a .585 .. get an nyati .. or 577 AccRel ...

quote:

the general opinion of the p17 action

The same as a "Chevy Mustang".

There is NO such beast.

There IS the U.S. Model 1917 however.

Keith

Keith,
p17 is like 45LC... it didn't exist as such ...

my advice? let that torch go, it aint worth bearing

jeff, I just think that people aught to call things by their right name. Would someone get a "pass" if they were talking about a 1927 Mexican mauser? I think not.

Keith

I dnt mind the looks of the hannibal . It so ugle it looks good lol ok maybe not . Longs as its functional. Well does anyone here have good things to say about american,hunting rifles . They make the 577 tyran in cz550 & granite mountain arms action. I think its 5500$ in the cz and probably $$$$ in the granite arms action.I like tge looks of the gma rifles they are pretty hot. Hell the pictures on their website rival that of the sxs rifles. So does asquare even turn out rifles anymore ? And whats bad about a welded magazine ? And im dead set on the 577 tyran. I think it will be alot if fun to load for.

Oh,isnt the nyati rebated rim and the tyran a rimless so,wouldnt the tyran be more reliable

also i read that the p17 is 30-06 caliner p14 is 303 caliber but both being american made rifles here in the USA .And the action being similar yet stronger than that of the 1903a3 and mauser-kar 98 . plus is has a very deep magazine well so it makes since to use it as a rifle even if it is 90 years old , it would have lots of history behind it . i sorta got a thing for old stuff .

if you think the cost of the action, 100 for a p14/m17 vs 750 for a cz is signifcant in the cost of this build, I suggest that you further research the cost of this build, vs going ahead and buying a hannibal...

price out 100 pieces of brass -- and not the bertram rubbish ... then 100 bullets, the dies, the shell holder, and then price out BUYING a reamer ... you will have to buy it, as its unlikely that there's 10 577trex reamers floating around... outside of a2

a2 is making rifles today .. they did a new release a couple months about, about a 577 hannibal. rather misleading, in that they state the gunw as ENTIRELY made there.. i called and verified that the action was NOT made there.

as for being more reliable.. in a single stack, its irrelevent.. again, been there, done that... which is why the schulers are almost all singlestack, and the indentical round, in a stagger feed, gave the jeffery its reputation for poor feeding

welding to an action? its a HACK way of doing things.. this is their "fort knox" mag strategy .. weld it to the frame.

call a couple big bore gunsmiths and ask them how much they'd charge to build you one of these ... unless you KNOW what you are doing, and do it yourself, you are just asking for a nightmare

best of luck

To make a .577 T-Rex you will need a Model 1917 Enfield action and a P14 bolt. The reason isbecause only the P14 bolt has enough meat on it to have even a 0.030 rim left to control the cartridge once its opened up for the T-rex bolt face. The action will need to be re-machined on the top and bottom and you will need a custom mag box. The action also needs to be opened up into the lower locking lug to feed the T-Rex. Your everyday gunsmith/class 3 machinist will most likely just screw it up unless he has done this particular conversion before. The Only gunsmith I know who actually can do this is Denis Olsen. My guess is it will cost nearly $2000 to produce an action that will feed the T-Rex these days.
I have a A2 T-Rex and its frankly a crude POS. The .600Ok with 750 gr bullets will do anything a T-rex can do with the advantage of a bigger bore and the ability to shoot 900gr bullets . Personally, If you really want a T-Rex I'd search around till you find one for sale and pay the freight.
Finally if you hold a T-rex wrong and get hit in the cheek, you'll most likely loose some teeth. Remember, most of these guns are shot once, dropped once, sold once, items. Most Newbies really can't handle them.-Rob

This sounds like a great round, the TREX, for the new Montana PH action. No rebate, like many of the other POS alternatives floated here such as Nyati, Yuk-Rel, OK or whatever.

Ed Hubel seems quite pleased with the PH actions and has built a gun in .700 If it can handle a 700 should be piece of cake to handle the TREX. No 1/12 twist hi-torque. Have not heard about synthetic stocks, but a wood stock pattern has been made. Maybe there is a TREX in the works now? Would that person dare to speak up?

Clearly, no one with a Hannabal TREX is going too answer and we are all offering our pet alternatives, how about the new PH action in the desired TREX chambering?

Sounds like a match made in heaven

THis is just what the PH was designed to handle BIG rounds without ugly compromises.

Another useless post by the Dumb-bore. Just trolling around are you? Do you own or ever shot a T-Rex Dumbbore? But of course you haven't! More advice from a know Nothing!The man is asking about a M1917 pay attention, focus, concentrate.tell us all you know about converting M1917s to hold a T-Rex. Your full of shit aren't you Dumbbore. got a little newsflash for you. You chickened out of the Heym.600NE challenge, like the Troll you are, the TRex at full tilt in a Hannibel is WORSE!-Rob

Fourbore what do you just stir the pot because you know and own nothing whats your problem you been ousted for being a fool but continue to do so.

Rob-


I wish I lived nearer to LV so I could test-drive one of these howitzers y'all build.

I'm sure the experience would be memorable!



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker- any time your in the area! happy to let you fire some cool stuff!
You must live near the palomino valley gun club where FCSA holds it's .50 BMG 1000 yrd matches. I used to go there twice a year.-Rob

i sent emails to couple people who make rifles on the GMA action . i guess the gma action is more than i thought . aslo i have thought about a 50 bmg action from mcmillian and have the bolt face downsized and the action reworked for that caliber and it would be cheaper . im wanting to stay under 6500$ . the hannibal is 4100$ i imagine it would look somthing like that 700 NE that was built on the mcmillian action . it would probably weigh 20 lbs i guess .

Just buy a Barret M82A1, get in shape doing your P90X and you'll be lugging it up the Rockies chasing elk in no time! Why fool around ...

the hannibal is likely to be the cheapest route to get there, as not even a CZ 550 can handle the full rim.. you can get a MRC PH action, in the classifieds right now, for $900 .. a barrel will cost about 300, sights about 300, a reamer and gauges about 250, gunsmithing? this is going to eat you alive .. and what to stock it with?

900+1150+1500for stock and gunsmithing... 3550? then dies, brass, and bullets ...

if course, you could buy a 600 overkill from AHR and be done with it.

Even if you buy a McMillan .50BMG action with a reduced bolt face, how are you going to deal with the Mag box? You'll need a custom box. Good luck with that.
With a McMillan repeater action, you could have a .700 RLG built( 1000gr at 3100 fps) on the .50 BMG case that could weighs only 16lbs and ballistically makes the TRex look like a .22lr. Reamer available from JGS and all stock parts, reloading dies from CH4D. Works as built through a McMillan mag box too.of course its recoil is stout.
I also looked at one of my PH actions and it's gonna take a lot of work to get one to work with a TRex. I have not done one on this action so no idea what it will take, but not a snap by a long shot. Even then read all the horror stories about custom gunsmiths before you jump in. Your still going to have to deal with the crappy TRex brass out there and trying to find it.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND HAVE AHR build you a .600 ok or a .585 AHR if you just have to have a TRex. The .585 AHR is the ballistic equivalent of the TRex with better brass( that's available) and a reputation for build quality and customer service.-Rob

Yeah I see the trex is a very odd ball case with a .688 rim . Really it needs a action size of its own. Or a 20/16 ga bolt action shotgun . Dont know about turning a shotgun into a big boomer. As why coukdnt the lips of the magazine be made on the mcmillian to be modified to feed the trex

The 50 doesnt look much bigger just longer here a comoarison . What do you think about magazine differance

I can get brass from rmc and other sources and you can specifi the thickness you want

what's RMC for brass?

there's THREE commerical sources of trex brass ..
bertram
horneber
jamison/bell

and that's IT ...

Rocky mountain cartridge . They make brass for obsolete and oddball calibers . Also tyey will do custom orders of one box of shells 20 . I jamison int is minimal of 1000 I think . Ill check out the other two you listed thank you

quote:

Originally posted by tk10ga:
Rocky mountain cartridge . They make brass for obsolete and oddball calibers . Also tyey will do custom orders of one box of shells 20 . I jamison int is minimal of 1000 I think . Ill check out the other two you listed thank you

RMC make machined low pressure straight walled cases. They do not make drawn cases or bottle necked cases. tk10ga - this project is waaaay beyond beginner level. Take Rob's advice and stick to something proven and simple, you'll be safer and it will get done.

I used to want a 577 T Rex, until I got a 600 overkill and a 700 AHR. I just can't see spending that kind of money on a 577 T Rex. The 600 O.K. beats it hands down at everything. Much more reliable and easier to build. The full load will beat the t rex by 1000 ft. lbs at least. The 700 AHR will beat it by more than that. Wayne does excellent work at AHR too.

The TRex brass dimensions are totally different than a .50 BMG and no you just can't bend the feed lips with pliers. You'll need a purpose built box with a proper follower. That's not gonna be cheap!
My A-Square Hannibel in .577 TRex is a real POS. I got the gun with 100 pieces of new a2 brass. It was a bought once, fired once, sold once( at a very low price) gun. I've fired it maybe 20 times since I bought it. When I approached 2400 fps I started getting very sticky bolt lift and at 2475 a completely stuck case. Had to hammer the bolt open. Completely consistent with the quality build of anything made by A-Square.
Do yourself a favor, this project is waaaay over your head. Just call AHR and buy the biggest caliber you can afford. Best to lie down till the TRex idea goes away!-Rob

quote:

Best to lie down till the TRex idea goes away

quote:

tk10ga

AHR will build you a .577 Tyrannosaur on a GMA action. If you really have to have one then do it right! I have been eyeing the T-Rex for years and just have not gotten there yet. What I have learned is; #1 the .600OK is a more practical choice, #2 everything you have read here is correct.

I wasnt talking of building it myself lol im not a gunsmith . Also i talked to mrc , they said they can make a 577 . also i seen their rifle the woodland model i think and i want it styled like that left hand. Since of course im left handed. I have seen the 600ok have a rebated belt how does that work ? i thought rebated rims were harder to feed so how does the belt infront of the rebated rim change or help from a rimless belt ? Also i talk to Wayne he said it would be 8500$ on the gma action . i talked to rmc they said they could/would make brass . I want a 577 (.585) and the nyati i here has no definant specs for the brass because the original drawings varied ? From the reloading data i seen if you downloaded the 600ok to work yourself. duplicated 600ne velocitys you would have recoil in like 90 or so ft lbs .