I never gave this a thought, until a conversation a few days ago. I've only owned a few mausers, and most of them had trigger mounted safeties like on the Mark X. I shoot mostly Mk I Ruger 77's with the tang safety. I always assumed that a three postion safety on a Mauser was the best idea. Not so, says the other fellow, on a serious gun the three position is just another place for problems, in the middle position. Keep it simple, on or off. besides, says he, you only have two position safeties on those Rugers. Curious as to other opinions.
Bfly

The middle position on the three position is for loading or unloading of cartridges. Once the cartridges are loaded, put it on completely safe (bolt lock). In either case, no matter the position it is in, the motion to move it to fire is the same.

Personally, I like having the ability to have the rifle on safe and load/unload, it prevents embarassing and/or dangerous mishaps. The best I have seen is the Sako setup with a two position lever that engages the saftey and locks the bolt and has a button to release the bolt for clearing the action.

John

The finest safety on the market is the Ruger RSM and similar Ruger models. It blocks the firing pin and the trigger and has a middle safe postion when needed.

That's where I was on this. I just couldn't understand why anyone would want a two position other than it is a little cheaper to put on than a three position. The old Buehler style was even easier and cheaper to put on, but I rank that in third place since it is so easy to accidentally bump into the off position.
Just wondered if I lost my seat on the turnip truck.
Thanks
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
The middle position on the three position is for loading or unloading of cartridges. Once the cartridges are loaded, put it on completely safe (bolt lock). In either case, no matter the position it is in, the motion to move it to fire is the same.

Personally, I like having the ability to have the rifle on safe and load/unload, it prevents embarassing and/or dangerous mishaps. The best I have seen is the Sako setup with a two position lever that engages the saftey and locks the bolt and has a button to release the bolt for clearing the action.

John

This is exactly why I like having a three position safety.

Anyone who has trouble with a three position safety will also have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time.

a gun's safety is between your ears .. the trigger blocking thingie is a matter of choice

My Ceska 550 Safari Magnum has two position safe, and my Ceska 550 Magnum also.

Regards,

Oscar.

I guess some people are challenged by the choice of safe or fire or something in-between. All of my bolt rifles have this latch in front of the trigger that lets me empty the magazine without having to work them thru the chamber. I push the latch, and take the live round out of the chamber. IMHO, a 3-position safety is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How do DR guys live without that third option?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
a gun's safety is between your ears .. the trigger blocking thingie is a matter of choice

I have never known one to be shot that has no gun pointing at them. I remember the rash of Rem 700 lawsuits and was appalled by the events that led up to the discharges. One was unloading a rifle in the car and shat their hunting partner in the back. Another one had her rifle pointed at her kid when unloading and killed him when the rifle discharged.

If you do your part, and the safety does its part, all will be well with the world. Goof off, and the safety fails, you could have a lifetime of regret.

John

Best is this two position lever safety;
Bolt handle up for "safe", down for "fire"...nothing else really required except for show or legal reasons.

I like the 2-position 'safety', unless the gun has a 3-position 'safety'. I also have guns with a half-cock 'safety' and others with a 2 position 'safety' + a half-cock 'safety. In any case the most important thing to know is that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

It stands to reason that the third position (middle) is useful while handling live ammo without the intention of firing. This is common enough that I prefer the option.

If all you did was load and fire, all you'd need is an ON/OFF switch.

Of course, the machine is only as smart as the operator!

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Best is this two position lever safety;
Bolt handle up for "safe", down for "fire"...nothing else really required except for show or legal reasons.

That is what I usually end up doing.
The PH's in Botswana that I saw did it that way too, even if carrying a Mauser with the 3-position "flag."

Flag was kept down to the left in firing position.
If on an approach, a round is chambered, the bolt is closed firmly then the bolt handle is lifted up, and the stalk is on.

Ready to shoot by pushing the bolt handle straight down and silent ... fire in the hole.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I guess some people are challenged by the choice of safe or fire or something in-between. All of my bolt rifles have this latch in front of the trigger that lets me empty the magazine without having to work them thru the chamber. I push the latch, and take the live round out of the chamber. IMHO, a 3-position safety is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How do DR guys live without that third option?

Rich
DRSS

.
Ya mean like this ! . .


I use the mid position for when I,m finishing a stalk . or when I think something might start happening but it hasn,t yet ... I also use it when I,m running all my ammo thru the chamber to make sure it fits .......
I,ll be putting one on my Rem 700 223 fur rifle before winter ......I really should have got a Ruger !!

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I guess some people are challenged by the choice of safe or fire or something in-between. All of my bolt rifles have this latch in front of the trigger that lets me empty the magazine without having to work them thru the chamber. I push the latch, and take the live round out of the chamber. IMHO, a 3-position safety is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How do DR guys live without that third option?

Rich
DRSS

.
Ya mean like this ! . .


I use the mid position for when I,m finishing a stalk . or when I think something might start happening but it hasn,t yet ... I also use it when I,m running all my ammo thru the chamber to make sure it fits .......
I,ll be putting one on my Rem 700 223 fur rifle before winter ......I really should have got a Ruger !!

Awww, come on, test cycle your ammo, what a silly waste of time, I mean, all ammo fits right? `Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you actually check all the headstamps to make sure you brought the right ammo! DO you test fire you rifle when you show up to your hunt area too? Next thing you're gonna tell me is you bring a cleaning kit to make sure your bore stays clean during your hunt.

At least the new 700's allow you to open the bolt with the safety on.

Didn't a stuck 3 position safety contribute to Nicki Atcheson getting hurt? There was much discussion about having Mod 70 safeties checked to be sure they didn't jam if the bolt was slightly lifted.

I prefer a 3 position safety for ease of maintaining the striker assembly.

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
Didn't a stuck 3 position safety contribute to Nicki Atcheson getting hurt? There was much discussion about having Mod 70 safeties checked to be sure they didn't jam if the bolt was slightly lifted.

When you screw up, all sorts of irrelevant things get blamed. Like lawyer talk.

3-position safeties are dangerous.

You said you normally use a ruger 77 tang safety. My opinion is this is the best design available. This makes the one of the tang 77's my go to hunting rifle for the last 30 years. I have remington 700's and winchester 70's but rarely hunt with them because the safety is awkward to operate. Yea, it works but it is not 'natural' like the tang design.

Ergonomilcally I much prefer the tang safety, as far as Shroud safeties go,I much prefer the Weatherby MkV type.
I can Cycle and eject rounds from an CRF-M70 without turning the handle down any, so what great need do I have for a middle position?

I really do not like 3-pos safeties. i do not need them. I prefer to maintain my guns, so that they do not go off when safety sets off.
And if I am stalking, I lift the bolt as above mentioned.

But I heartely agree that many of the markets two-pos side-safeties is of poor quality and not safe at all. The 1/4 safety like the Bühler for the M98's is pure dangerous if the rifle is carried in a sling over the shoulder, and triggers like the Timney with a side lever is very often way to loose and ends up in the off position for no reason at all. Which is bad.

The safety on the Weatherby MkV is my cup of tea, if I cannot have a tang-safety.
But a properly fitted factory safety of the Rem700 will work too, as long as it looks the bolt.

The best safety is a decocker, such as the one featured on Blaser R93 rifles.

It's not really a safety at all.

Rather, it's a simple ON/OFF switch, and is the safest fire control mechanism yet devised, IMHO.

Wow! I never knew safeties were so controversial.

John

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
The best safety is a decocker, such as the one featured on Blaser R93 rifles.

It's not really a safety at all.

Rather, it's a simple ON/OFF switch, and is the safest fire control mechanism yet devised, IMHO.

+1 Or a Krieghoff double I think in a relatively short period of time, all guns will be made this way.