I have owned a 700 since 1970. killed lots of game with it and it has never failed me in any way. I have setup a dozen for other guys and never seen one that didnt shoot good out of the box. Will take a Winchester CRF model 70 any day!

Remingtons sell well for the reasons listed by Stockbrocker, primarily. There is a predominance of "if our military uses it, it must be the absolute best". Our military didn't start using push feeds because they were the best option. They used them because they were readily available, unlike the (at that time) recently discontinued CRF Winchester Model 70. Discontinued, because it was exceedingly expensive to build by hand.

The FBI is currently using the Model 70 action, as produced by FN, in their sniper rifles.

Read The One-Round War: USMC Scout-Snipers In Vietnam.

I always find the comments on Remington bolt handles fascinating. To me it doesn’t matter how they are fabricated, it’s how they function that matters.

I drive around in a car whose body shell is a collection of parts welded together, no doubt some craftsman could machine it out of a solid piece of steel but would it be any better?
I have an old BRNO 22”, in cutting down the rear sight I found an air bubble in the casting, again a quality issue. The function is a product of design, and manufacturing quality, a one piece bolt might not be any better and if it is it would condemn thousands of customised Mauser’s to the second division.
I did own a 223 remington, I didn’t care for it, but nothing ever fell off.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
... Back in the day, I knew A LOT of those boys, and they all did remingtons because they could pick up actions, alone, not complete rifles, for $300-$400. Shooting matches, long range, and small bores, is not the same thing as what we do with rifles here on big bores. There is zero correlation between the two.
....

Michael

Regarding that one point, I remember those days too, when Remington 700 actions sold for that price -- and were also just about the only available action for left-handers. They seemed fine to me. In those days, LH 70s had not yet been introduced. Thus I had Harry McGowen, whose shop was a reasonably short drive south of Chicago, make me up a couple, one in .375 H%H for big bears and the other in 6.5-06 with a pencil barrel as a light sheep rifle. My company had just acquired a commercial airline (Wien) in Alaska, and I was doing the legal work so I was sure I'd be there often.

Sadly, I have never had the opportunity to use either for its intended purpose and now that I work in Japan, who knows if I ever will. However, I did put the former to use in Africa.

That permitted me to form a rather strong opinion (to say the least), as I've written elsewhere, on the 700 action for dangerous game. It worked fine in checking sights, etc., but when I tried it on a nice cape buffalo, the cartridge case froze and would not eject. The bolt handle would not lift at all. Fortunately all the buffs took off away from us, but it was rather distressing. It took repeated whacks with the butt of my Randall to open the bolt and by the time I did that, my buff, while I'm sure I got in a good enough shot, was long gone. I don't mind taking blame for anything I do wrong (which is frequently enough) but this time it was the rifle.

That was with factory ammo, and one person on Campfire recently said that at that time, Winchester cartridges were running pretty hot, so maybe that was the problem. We were in direct sun for a long time and the temperature was super hot. Or possibly Harry bored the chamber rather tight. I do not know. I do think that whatever the cause, a big claw extractor would have been just the ticket at the time. At any rate, we tracked the buff for several hours until it got too dark, then resumed in the morning. We found plenty of blood where it had bedded down, but I never got close enough to shoot again over a total of 14 hours tracking through the thorn bushes. The tracks finally merged with those of a herd, so we lost it and I was out the fee for that one.

I will say that it worked okay for the rest of the trip, but once you develop doubts about a rifle, they don't go away. On my return,I shipped it off to Butch Searcy, then in Farmington, NM, to do his work on installing a Winchester 70 CRF extractor and ejector.

Did that lower the accuracy? Who cares, if it feeds reliably. It definitely affected my subsequent rifle purchases, too. Everything recent has been a 70.

We see all types of firearms through camp and being primarily a plains game operation, a lot of those are Remingtons. We have found them to be very inconsistent, a few fine rifles and quite a few on the complete opposite end of the scale.

Here is my bolt:



Mainly my fault; wider than normal cartridge in a tight chamber. Notice that both the bolt body, and the braze gave way.

Here is more of a previous picture:



I started out with a 270 in a 700 BDL. It took ~40 deer in 20 years. Gave it to my daughter for high school graduation. Only mod was a trigger tweak and bedding it in a Brown Precision stock when they cost less than $100.00.

Same story with a 30-06.

Now I view them as a starting point that is easier to work on than other models. With the usual laundry list of work (the hard part is getting the necessary tooling.); reaming the bolt raceway, single point recutting/blue-printing of the receiver, re-grind the outside of the reamer to concentricity with the longitudinal center line, check scope base mounting screw holes to see that they are straight, and on center-line, open screw holes to 8-40 from 6-48, replace recoil lug with a double pinned flat surface ground model, install a three-position wing safety from PT&G, lightened firing pin, aftermarket trigger - then weld an aftermarket bolt handle or buy a one piece bolt/handle of the correct diameter, re-cut the lugs and lug seats, lap the lugs in, check the bolt face and rim for normalcy (90 degrees to the bolts long axis, replace the original extractor with an M-16 (not a Sako) style unit, check over the ejector, have a good barrel fit and chambered, do a damned good bedding job into a stable stock and you are a metal re-finish job away from a useful rifle. By that I mean you can fit many different barrels to that one receiver by staying in the correct cartridge size range and/or getting a couple of other bolts with different sized bolt faces (.223, PPC, 6.8, 308/30-06,magnum and 404 Jeffrey.

So, after the initial sweat, toil and tears you can switch barrels as often as needed for your new shop mule. Why?? To test cartridges in various calibers for pressure/velocity/accuracy.

Why use the model 700 vice a model 70 or a Sako? Because their shape is much easier to work on. For a little more money you can buy a custom action with a 700 foot-print, but guess what? You have to check them just as closely for concentricity, normalcy, size and function.

When I can hunt again (I finally seem to be making some real progress in that direction - ask me tomorrow ), will I use a model 700. Probably not. More likely a Steyr, Sako A-V, Mauser or Winchester. All but the Steyr will be run through almost as many steps as the 700s. Don't trust any gun out of the box.

I like to hunt with Mausers, Sakos and Winchesters, in that order.

That should muddy things up a bit.

So if it's "mainly my fault", then it's not Remington's ???????


Hit anything hard enough and it will break.

Now that's not to say that Rem isn't at fault with some bolt handles - I know of a few that have "come off / broken" but I also know some who whacked them to open a seized bolt and that was that.


I will say one thing, I don't think the quality of Rem 700's is anything like it used to be.

No, not at all.

Remington builds to a price point that people will snatch up, and they perform some shoddy work because the numbers work out to the maximum profit possible for them.

I listed a lot of work , just to get a Remington accurate, durable and safe. I use CRF rifles that have been equally worked over for hunting. Most of my hunting in the last twenty years has been culling (WORK) and backing up sport hunters (LOTS OF WORK).

My thesis is that nearly every American rifle sold these days is merely a starting point. If you want it to work you generally have to invest at least the original purchase price back into it to get it semi-dead nuts reliable.

Heck, my youngest boy was on his way to his second tour in Iraq. His first tour was behind an M2 BMG. That was good. He also kicked doors with a Mossberg shotgun as a part of task force "Hunter", attached to the 1/75th Rangers IIRC.

Second tour was with a National Guard Special Forces group out of West Virginia. His Colt made, US Government issue M-4 carbine was a POS. I had to scramble to collect the parts to build him a delta style recce carbine out of GOOD components. He only shoots semi anyway, so I made him the full meal deal. He took two carbines over, hid his issue POS in his duffel bag, and strode confidently up into the hills with a well timed, accurate and durable carbine. When it was time to go home after his tour, he tried to give away his lower to the follow on Group. He ended up welding it into an aluminum puddle, threw his "spare parts" into the duffel, and shouldered his issue M4 for turn in on the flight back.

It was not his fault that his M4 was no good. And it is not your fault that your Remington failed you. All I did was list the steps needed to make sure it will not fail you.

The other option is to buy a Sauer 202, or a Steyr that tickles your fancy. Those generally need little, if any work after you open the box at your FFL dealer's place of business.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck.