The Ultimate Safari 2-Rifle Battery?

31 December 2017, 20:41

John S

You’re likely correct about the 250gr in the 375 but for my own uses I just don’t see the need. My 300s are far easier for me to shoot well at extended ranges. And that is the most important part, and often times the most overlooked. While a larger caliber may or may not be more useful, if the hunter can’t hit anything with it, why bother? Accurate and precise bullet placement is what fills the skinning shed.

31 December 2017, 21:09

ALF

The biggest problem IMO on Safari is the wide range of animal sizes targeted. You can carry and shoot one gun at a time only and that poses a problem because in the typical course of a day you may run into the smallest or largest animals on the menu. Going after a small or tiny antelope with a fast stepping plains rifle is a recipe for a ruined trophy, same applies when going large DG armed with the same.

The old 375 works very well in this regard because like a middle aged dude you can play the field up or down without embarrassing yourself much

31 December 2017, 21:47

John S

Guess I was lucky as I never had a problem on small trophies. I always loaded some solids for the 300 and used them on things like duiker and klipspringer. In the thicker bush of places like Zimbabwe I used a 338 on one safari, and it worked well. But if I were to hunt that type of country again I’d just use the 375. But for the Masai country up and around the Serengeti, I’ll be packing one of my 300s.

02 January 2018, 21:30

ar corey

2 rifle choice?

- 375 Ruger
- 7mm Remington Magnum

05 January 2018, 17:11

A.J. Hydell

30-06 for plains game. .404 Jeffrey for the big stuff. All you need, and nothing you don't.

06 January 2018, 00:08

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
30-06 for plains game. .404 Jeffrey for the big stuff. All you need, and nothing you don't.

In the best of all possible worlds this might be the best of all possible solutions to the puzzle.
And even though this ain't CANDIDE , by Voltaire,
it will still get you by nicely.
I like it.
The Thirty-Aught-Six and the "Forty-Aught-Four."

Rip ...

06 January 2018, 00:12

surefire7

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
30-06 for plains game. .404 Jeffrey for the big stuff. All you need, and nothing you don't.

This is exactly the battery my PH in Zambia recommended for me in 2014. I decided on the 404J and 338WM instead.

06 January 2018, 06:15

boom stick

318 and 425 WR take down anyone?

06 January 2018, 06:56

Huvius

Being that it’s 1860 and all, I would take my W.R. Pape 450 and Rodda 6bore.

But, since we are into the early nitro age, and we know British sportsmen still like bigger BPEs for Cape Buffalo, it would have to be two of George Gibbs’ best Farquharsons! 461 No.2 and 303 British.

Or, if we go full nitro and want to tote some very special rifles, we could go with a pair of Webley. An 1897 in 400/360 and a 1902 in 500NE.

06 January 2018, 07:31

boom stick

Huvius
With guns like that I will make you an official member of the SSSS (Single Shot Shooters Society)
You drink your tea with a monocle and extended pinky like a real man I see.
Mr. T approves...

06 January 2018, 08:11

Omnivorous_Bob

Huvius, just WOW.........

Best post I've seen in a while on AR. Classy never goes out of style. Any of those set ups would get the job done in their day or today, and with a panache that fill the plastic-fantastic rifles with envy.
Bob

DRSS

"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"

"PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!"

06 January 2018, 10:44

338User

For plains game and dangerous game, I would choose one rifle two loads. 416 Rigby, 450gn bullet at 2300 fps for DG, well constructed softs and solids (eg Woodleighs) and 300gn Barnes at 3000 fps for PG, (shoots flat out to 250yds, so aim dead on, no holdover guessing). Two scopes with quick release mounts. I used this on a PG hunt in 2012 quite successfully, Only the one load, was used, but the second scope and other rounds were in my backpack. Then you never have the wrong rifle in your hands. If you need to change scope & load it takes about 30 seconds. If you come across anything at close range unexpectedly, then either load will do.
If I was persuaded that a second rifle would be needed, I would take either my 338 Win Mag, my 470 Nitro double, or my 505 Gibbs, depending on which side of "heavy" the game would be likely to be found, and how much hunting was in really thick stuff (which is where the 470 comes into its own).

06 January 2018, 12:15

Saeed

ALF posed a very good question.

That is why I decide years ago to just take two identical rifles on Safari.

They take care of anything I come across, from duikers to elephants.

If I was going to some place that requires long shot on plains game as well, I will take my 30/404 and 375/404.

180 grain at almost 3500 fps will atek care of the longer shots.

300 grains at 2800 will take care of anything big.

06 January 2018, 20:56

tom o

If you reload, 300 H&H, and 416 Rem Mag.
Should give you all the reach & punch you'd generally need.

07 January 2018, 03:24

metric

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
318 and 425 WR take down anyone?

You nailed that one!

07 January 2018, 04:42

swampshooter

I chose 375 Weatherby and 458, both on Mauser 98 actions with Winchester safeties.

07 January 2018, 06:04

boom stick

Is it me or is there an underserved but well funded niche for matching rifles by manufacturers for the said subject the two gun Safari? Sequential numbered rifles made from the same hunk of wood with the same proportions, embellishments and furnishings should not just be the thing of custom gunmakers imho. What is sexier than a hottie? Twin hotties!!!!

09 January 2018, 05:04

MacD37

Never found anything that couldn't be taken in style with a 470NE double and a CRF 375H&H bolt gun.

..........................................................................

09 January 2018, 09:52

fulvio

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
318 and 425 WR take down anyone?

Simply Wow!!

09 January 2018, 23:07

RIP

Gotta love the latches on the bottoms of those WR magazines.

Rip ...

10 January 2018, 01:07

Nakihunter

Is the checkering on the 318WR 26lpi?

Real heart stopping rifles!

10 January 2018, 01:23

boom stick

I lifted the image from The Explora website from W.R. The checkering on the 318 is lovely. IMHO there is an added layer of panache using guns from the same English gunmaker for a safari.

10 January 2018, 05:18

mdstewart

quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Being that it’s 1860 and all, I would take my W.R. Pape 450 and Rodda 6bore.

[IMG]http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/62dff4c3-07da-4b04-87b6-

96e49c22af30.jpg[/IMG]

But, since we are into the early nitro age, and we know British sportsmen still like

bigger BPEs for Cape Buffalo, it would have to be two of George Gibbs’ best Farquharsons! 461 No.2 and 303 British.

Huvius, you have way too much damn money. Want to shoot with you sometime.

Or, if we go full nitro and want to tote some very special rifles, we could go with a pair of Webley. An 1897 in 400/360 and a 1902 in 500NE.

JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More

10 January 2018, 12:21

Cougarz

If I had that pair of Westley Richards I think I could make do with that rebated rim on the 425. Nice!

11 January 2018, 04:13

A.J. Hydell

Huh?

14 January 2018, 02:53

PD999

Heym big-bores:-

505 Gibbs : https://heym-fabrik.de/?produc...se-express-505-gibbs

577 NE : https://heym-fabrik.de/?produc...lround-doppelbuechse

15 January 2018, 03:29

RIP

Biggger-than-needed bores are fun, eh?
Maybe we need some jackaloping here.

For best dinosaur-hunting rifle,
only one at a time now,
bolt action, or double rifle,
what would you choose to take on a T. rex?
You will have a guide/PH packing his choice too.
Each of you can carry only one weapon on the time machine, unloaded in transit, 20-round belt or pack of ammo for each weapon.
You may have to run and dodge while carrying the gun.
No crew-served weapons allowed.
I would prefer an Apache helicopter with 30mm chaingun and HF missiles,
but that would not fit into the time machine.
One-specimen hunt, a T. rex only.
Get in and get out, hopefully alive.
Triceratops requires another trip ...

Rip ...

15 January 2018, 10:23

416Tanzan

RIP,
the question is too easy.

A person takes an over-40 caliber with the HIGHEST SD flat-nose solid. An SD pushing .4 is desired, maybe a flat-nosed 450 grain .416" (.371 SD) or 550 grain .458" (.375 SD).

For larger calibers you would need a special run of bullets by CEB. The time machine would need to wait for a special order. Your Mbogo with a 700-grain flat-nose would be about right (.384 SD) at 2300fps, or perhaps a 750 grain (.412 SD) at 2250fps. You need a little more range on a predator so big, less so for the herbivorous.

15 January 2018, 16:23

A.J. Hydell

For 'big bores,' the 'easy' answer is still the .404 Jeffery.

Load it to the original specs (2000fps), using modern .423 bullets, and you won't have any problems.

It'll put down any of the Big Stuff right now, while imparting the softest felt-recoil of any in the '.400' class of African cartridges.

15 January 2018, 21:16

RIP

416Tanzan,

Thanks for playing.
Yep, my pick for dinosaur hunting would be this 500 Mbogo, with the Nikon set on 1.1X, 1:9" twist to aid transition from air into Tyrannosaurus rex.

Brain shooting might be trickier tnan on an elephant, glancing angles on skull,
better aim for roof of mouth approach just before you get swallowed.
Sort of like hitting a volleyball inside of a Volkswagen.
But the heart would be a huge target, surrounded by lungs too, like shooting the refrigerator while standing in your kitchen.
Neck shot at base of skull, foramen magnum and vertebrae, if ambush possible, hit some bone.
Break a hip and the walks-on-two-legs lizard is going down!
Watch out for that thrashing tail.

FN solids better be feeding well, eh?
Maybe a single-loaded 700-grain blacktip at 2300 fps to tumble through the heart for starters?
Then a volley of specially designed 550-grain brass FN solids at 2600 fps: 67% Meplat, a la BBW#13.
But a 570-grain copper GSC FN at 2400 fps MV reliably penetrates over 8 feet, exiting on a Texas Heart Shot bison at 50 yards (on the hoof) and at 25 yards (post mortem test of repeatability, it worked).
That might do also.
Off-the-shelf, CEB .510/570-grainer might do even better, at 2500 fps MV:

Rip ...

15 January 2018, 21:46

boom stick

For T. rex, I want long range. I don't want to be close to that at all. 20mm rifle with high BC bullets. The tricky part is getting the CNS shot. If I have to be within a mile of one of those nasty T. rex I want a grenade launcher. If I have to go traditional and up close than I want a 2 bore double while I ride in a howdah on a much larger Dino. Like this...

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Biggger-than-needed bores are fun, eh?
Maybe we need some jackaloping here.

For best dinosaur-hunting rifle,
only one at a time now,
bolt action, or double rifle,
what would you choose to take on a T. rex?
You will have a guide/PH packing his choice too.
Each of you can carry only one weapon on the time machine, unloaded in transit, 20-round belt or pack of ammo for each weapon.
You may have to run and dodge while carrying the gun.
No crew-served weapons allowed.
I would prefer an Apache helicopter with 30mm chaingun and HF missiles,
but that would not fit into the time machine.
One-specimen hunt, a T. rex only.
Get in and get out, hopefully alive.
Triceratops requires another trip ...

Rip ...

15 January 2018, 22:04

RIP

boom stick,

I figured for sure you would want a pack train of saddled giant jackalope bucks with good horns on them.
They are agile, speedy, and ferocious defensive fighters, yet easily domesticated and protective of their riders.

When technology permits, the ultimate dinosaur 2-weapon battery would be
an Apache helicopter with 30mm chain gun

and an A-10 Warthog with that 30mm gattling gun.

Rip ...

16 January 2018, 00:16

JORGE01

Here is a pretty good short SciFi story dealing with the subject: A Gun for Dinosaur

http://hell.pl/szymon/Baen/The...n/0743498747___8.htm

Read and enjoy.

16 January 2018, 01:03

boom stick

The danger is the speed and verocity of the T. rex. Have you ever had a large lizard? They are quick and merciless. You will be lucky to get one aimed shot. In the future, we will bring back Dinosaurs with genetic technology but what will their instincts be like? If you are Jeff Bezos rich, you will probably be able to mail order some T. Rex eggs and raise them for meat and sport.
PS. Dinosaurs did not become extinct, Chuck Norris was just hungry that day.

16 January 2018, 01:03

RIP

JORGE01,
Thanks for the link to the L. Sprague de Camp story.
The Autumn 2017 SPORTING CLASSICS magazine reprinted it, read it there.
Though the original date of publication isn't on it, I am guessing 1950s.
Obviously before 1956, after which year all dinosaur-hunting stories would at least mention the .458 Win.Mag.

Rip ...

16 January 2018, 01:12

RIP

Chuck Norris is indeed a time traveler.
After eating all the dinosaurs,
he goosed that grizzly into attacking James Watts at One-Mile Creek.
Then about 20 years later he goosed Winchester into bringing out the .458 Win.Mag., aka .450 Watts Short.

Rip ...

16 January 2018, 06:09

RIP

"A Gun for Dinosaur" appeared first in a 1956 pulp magazine.
Eventually there came 8 more stories about time-traveling PH Reggie Rivers that got collected into this book by de Camp:

Rip ...

16 January 2018, 10:35

416Tanzan

Nice story. Sort of confirms my view of the 375

, even though I'm glad my wife has one.

16 January 2018, 13:04

Rockdoc

Great story JORGE01!

16 January 2018, 23:11

Atkinson

Mort,
As you stated you have never been there but you would take that long list of guns and be prepared!!

you didn't have to tell us you had never been there, your choice was obvious!

That's a typical first timers list, but allow me to ellucidate somewhat: After your first trip hauling all that arsenal around airports for miles and unloading them and reloading them in that very heavy case at customs both USA, Holland, and Africa etc. with people threatening your very life as they wilt in line from African airport heat, knowing you caused them to miss their connection, then lets not forget the repeat trip home,

I allow you will be searching for the one 5 lb. scoped with iron sights rifle that will do all for your second trip..

Post is in jest, but has a lot of truth in it...