I have been thinking to sell my .460 Weatherby and by a .577 tyrannosaur from a-square
I have some questions.
What barrel lenght is it on the a-square hannibal rifle in the .677tyrann?

Ulrik Hentzer!
I remeber that you owned a .577 tyrannosur
What loads were you using?
I remember something that you shoot the 750 grain bullet at 2700FPS?
What powder does you use?
Thanks!

OK,
rob built the OK for you... the 577 is kind of a whimpy way out

reloading data is right here on AR
http://www.accuratereloading.com/577tyr.html

Overkill,
Yes I have experience with a Hannibal rifle in 577 Tyrannosaur. I loaded with VVN 550 powder. Around 183-185 grs gave 2686 f/s in that rifle with a 750 grs Barnes Solid.
Right now I am having a new 577 rifle build for me (have waited for two years now..). The action will be BIG and a clone between the M-98 and Winch. pre 64 systems.
A 16000 USD project so I hope it will be nice...

Jefferso - the 577 Tyrannosaur case has more powdercapacity than the 600 OK case and I think a better design (no belt). Going to 2600 f/s with a 750 grs bullet is no problem and as far as I understand people have difficulties going to over 2300 f/s with a 900 grainer in the 600 OK..

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
I have been thinking to sell my .460 Weatherby and by a .577 tyrannosaur from a-square
I have some questions.

You've been posting that since you first joined AR as 'Overkill'. Do you even have a .460Wby?

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
You've been posting that since you first joined AR as 'Overkill'. Do you even have a .460Wby?

Hehe, I know Robert from a Swedish forum, and from what I have read there during the past few years, I'm totally convinced that he does indeed own and hunt moose with one.

Now, going from his 460 Wby to a T-Rex will be a very costly affair I can imagine. And Robert is quite young. So I think it's understandable that he has dreams that may be hard to put into reality.

The 600 and the 577 simply are not in the same legue. The 577 is a big bore and kicker to be sure but the 600 can and will take you places you will fear to go.

I have a 725 gr solid I make for fun shooting and although I've never chrono it at top velocity I would think it will get close to 2900 or a bit more, maybe even 3000. I usually let the new shooters shoot it and is quite mild with reduced loads of 7828.

Run it up there with 414 and watch out. It will twist the rifle right out of your hand.

OverKill if you want the biggest beast on the block you need to get the 600OK NOTHING else is in the same ball park.

Overkill and Buffalo,

Please review some of the videos ,on AR,of folks shooting the 577 t-rex and other charged rifles before you sign up for this. A 577 T shooting at 2800 fps, OUCH! Take the advice of others on this forum who can vouch that the 600 OK, properly stocked, can launch 900 grainers at 2200-2250 fps without pain and loss of control or memory
Be careful of what you wish for.

Dak

Jeffe - sorry but you are WRONG. A quick calculation shows that a 790 grs .620" bullet has a SD of under .300. Getting the same SD as a 750 grs .585" bullet you would need to have a 850 grs bullet for the 600 OK. And I really doubt that you will get 2600-2700 f/s with a 850 grs bullet in the 600 OK.......
The 577 T-rex has a case volume of 225 grs of water, and I remember that Rob posted some lower numbers for the 600 OK - and he knows what he is talking about... I am sure you don´t.

Just forgot to mention. I friend in Denmark shoots a 577 Tyrannosaur as well. I have recently got some 800 grs GS FN bullets. I sended him some to try. He got 2520 f/s.

Now jeffe- if you calculate SD correctly you will see that a 800 grs .585" bullet has exactly the same SD as a 900 grs .620" bullet. (maybe you thought that the bulletdiameter for the 600 OK was .600" - but no it is actually .620").
And I am sure that reaching 2500+ f/s with a 900 grs bullet in the 600 OK is close to impossible (if you want to compare bullets of similar SD as you previously mentioned)....!

Jeffe - I still think you are wrong. If the 600 OK has a bulletdiameter of .600 then there is no bullets to use for it - unless selfmade. Barnes, Woodleigh - all use .620" dia on their bullets for the 600..!!!
AND I have 577 t-rex cases at home in bunch - they hold 225 grs of water. With similar SD the 577 will be superior in velocity I think. The 600 might be a even more impressive stopper though..

I thought that the 600 OK was made from a smaller base case than the 577 T-rex. The t rex base dia is .688" . I thought the 600 OK was around .640" - much like the 505 Gibbs case...
I hope Rob or some other who know the exact case dimensions of the 600 OK will jump in and tell me..
I was told earlier by RobGunbuilder that the 577 Trex case had slightly more volume than the 600 OK.

I am still quite sure that the 600 OK uses .620" diam bullets and NOT .600" diam bullets and therefore your SD calculations in one of your former post are wrong!!

quote:

Originally posted by exabit:
Hehe, I know Robert from a Swedish forum, and from what I have read there during the past few years, I'm totally convinced that he does indeed own and hunt moose with one.

You must be particularly gullible. I don't think anyone here is quite as convinced as you are that he owns a .460Wby. rifle.

George

Buffalo,
I didn't realize you had designed any big bore rounds. I haven't seen pics of your trex or your 600 ok. I guess that is just an oversight. I'll leave the floor in your favor, right after seeing your guns.

That's okay, we'll understand if it takes awhile, just don't post a load of excuses like a troll would


fritz 454 cases and work



.950 - .900 - .800 -.700 - 600 OK - 577 T-rex and a 416rem.

Good Lord!

I have a recoil induced headache and sore shoulder just reading this thread!



465H&H

Jeffe, The base of the 600 just in front of the belt is .660 it then tapers to .650 at the case mouth and is a full 3" long.

ANy small h2o watercapacities must have been reported when we were using turned cases. Water volume on once fired brass is in the 225 to 235 range bepending on chanmer and brass lot.

There is no problem tossing a 900 gr bullet at 2400 if you hold on tight and don't shoot it too much. Is faster possible, YES. But I ask you why? It is already more than you can control.

The 577 is a stopper and a good one in it's own right but it is simply out clased by case capacity of the 600 not to mention that the bullet it launches is 150 gr more than the sdt 577 bullet.

Bullets diameter is .620 and on that point you are absolutely correct.

BTW all the pictures posted above are of turned cases adn sample bullets I played with for awhile as Rob was getting the project going. I had little or nothing to do with the concept and only helped provide some cases and bullets to try out while we waited for brass to be made in Germany.

John

Posted 26 May 2003 05:52
The 600 OK-1 is a 3 inch case desined to be 3.600 inches with a 900 gr woodleigh. It has a .682 belt and a rim of .640. The 600 OK-1 was designed for 2500 fps out of a 26 inch barrel and specifically designed to work through a CZ550 action. Thus, the need for the rebatted rim( something I'm really not fond of). The 600 OK-2 actually came first and has the full .682 rim, ( same as the belt) and is 3.2 inches long and will have a COL of 3.8 inches. It will not work through a CZ550 but will work on a Granite Moutain action, a Prarie gunworks action or perhaps a Montanna Rifleman PH Magnum. The 600 OK-2 should hit 2700 fps with the same bullet weight. Assuming of course we can find someone stupid enough to fire it at this level of performance. In a 14 lb rifle, at some point recoil tolerance limits the power level of the round!
Remember at 1900 fps, this cartridge duplicates the performance of a 600 NE in a bolt action rifle that will hold 3-4 rounds. -Rob
Posts: 2558 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001

Overkill
one of us
Posted 26 May 2003 09:37
Rob!
It most have a very good muzzle brake. I think I am stupid enough to fire a max loaded .600 OK-2 when i wear a fat jacket
2700 FPS with a 26 inch barrel. Isnt 14 ib to light for that power?
Is any one going to use a scope on it?

Hmm lets see.. it will have a muzzel energy of 19744 joule My .460 have a muzzel energy of 9400 joule.
Posts: 751 | Location: sweden | Registered: 15 January 2002

Ulrik Hentzer
one of us
Posted 27 May 2003 09:53
Rob-
How is the GM actions made - drilled from bar stock or what??
Isn�t 2500f/s for OK1 and 2700f/s for OK2 a bit optimistic...? As far as I see it, the OK1 will have quite a bit less casecapacity than the 577 T-Rex and the OK2 vil have about the same at best...
Posts: 186 | Location: 9750 Honningsvaag, Norway | Registered: 10 March 2002

<Axel>
Posted 27 May 2003 03:11
Ulrik, you bring up good points. According to my calculations the case capacities of the cartridges are as follow:

585 Nyati 2.85" ~ 182 grains of water
577 T-Rex ~ 212 grains of water
600/3" OK ~ 195 grains of water
600/3.25" OK ~ 212 grains of water

Maximum velcities achievable with 64,000 psi chamber pressure and 26" barrel:

585 Nyati 2.85" ~ 2490 fps with Woodleigh 750 gr
577 T-Rex ~ 2600 fps with Woodleigh 750 gr
600/3" OK ~ 2320 fps with Woodleigh 900 gr
600/3.25" OK ~ 2420 fps with Woodleigh 900 gr

Since the same assumptions have been made for all the above, those of you with 585 Nyati and 577 T-Rex rifles should be able to correlate the calculations to reality. With this correlatio data we can then correlate the 600 OK model to reality!

My reality, is that I DO NOT want to shoot any of these rounds at MAX velcity unless the rifle is muzzle braked and weighing 30+ pounds!

Axel


D Humbarger
one of us

Posted 27 May 2003 03:13
Nickudu at a Shot Show New Orleans a few years backs I saw the ADCO Mauser action & fondled it.(touch lovingly according to Danial Webster). I went beyond that i think It is a real piece metal working of art! Absolutely fabulous.

[ 05-26-2003, 18:14: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]
Posts: 2928 | Location: Jennings Louisiana, Arkansas by way of Alabama by way of South Carloina by way of County Antrim Irland by way of Lanarkshire Scotland. | Registered: 02 November 2001

Ulrik Hentzer
one of us
Posted 27 May 2003 04:03
Axel,
I agree. The OK1 has about the same casecapacity as the 600 NE. Saeed acheived a max of almost 2300f/s in his Heym Express.
Case capacity of the Horneber cases in 577 T-rex are 225 grs.So I really doubt that 2700 f / s is realistic with safe pressures in the 600 OK2..
Posts: 186 | Location: 9750 Honningsvaag, Norway | Registered: 10 March 2002

Robgunbuilder
one of us
Posted 27 May 2003 05:29
Your calculations are close to mine, however, with H414 and a Three groove, 26 inch barrel I believe the barrel will add about another 150fps. I have a three groove barrel on a .416 Rigby and have definately observed a significant increase in speed and lower pressures. We will find out for sure very soon!~-Rob
Posts: 2558 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001



Above just a little information from an earlier thread..



Fritz -
the 577 T-rex case also has a 225 grs watercapacity. And with the bullet seated that means the 577 T-rex will have more available space for powder. If you compare equal SD bullets in the 600 OK and the 577 T-rex (900 grs/.620" and 800 grs/.585") the 577 Trex will most likely give most velocity.

And Jeffe-
the basediam of the 577 T-rex is .688" which is MORE than the 600 OK . Even at the shoulder the diameter of the 577 T-rex is .670" which is more than the basedia of the 600 OK in front of the belt...!!!!!

Yeah, OK-- I think you need to build your namesake. How many other folks of your age have a cartridge named after them???

Save up your money.

OK so after reading this thread, I have found it very informative, but I just have this quesiton, not to deviate off topic, but what does A square charge to make a 577 T-rex, if were talking just a basic rifle, nothing fancy or engraving concerned.

any one care to shoot me a number?

about 3500$ usd

quote:

no one ever said the 600ok WONT go 2500FPS, except our former troll, they said YOU can't shoot it at 2500.

Jeffeosso, you talkin' to me?

Jeffe-
YOU WROTE:
The trex is (was and can be) built from 577 NE cases which have a case base of .660 (i know, I am wildcating from these, sort of) and the rim is slightly larger. If you de-rimmed a 577, cut a groove and fireformed it, you would have the 577 trex. I know for certain, without a doubt, as I measured the trex, the 577 NE, and the 577/500, sitting right at my pc desk, to help me design the new case.


ANSWER:
NO!!! It is not posssible to make 577 T-rex brass from 577 NE - 577 NE brass are way too small (base brass diameter of the 577 T-rex is .688")
So your statement "I know for certain, without a doubt.." is not very valid....

buffalo,

I see you are new here. With regard to jeffeosso, the vast majority of his responses are NOT VERY VALID. Meaning he is typically full of it.

ASS_CLOWN

The .600 OK1 will easily hit 2450fps. Period! Probably more. I may bring it to the double rifle shoot on Oct 8th just to watch the reactions of the unwary! It's a hoot! You don't have to estimate what it will do, just watch it in action.-Rob

The 577 basic case with a base of .660,can
be worked up to the T-Rex size of .688 by
fireforming.Cut rim off and make groove and
fireform. Only a 4.5% expansion. Will have a slight rounded effect next to groove.Good for the moderate speeds,matching 577, as most don't like recoil of Art's full loads.So
they load it like 577Ne at about 2100-
2300 fps.Brass can be enlarged and shrunk quite a bit.And once enlarged if not shrunk back to original 577 size, but resized for TRex they
work.I think they made first T-Rex fro a 600NE
case by cutting rim and extractor and the base
ended up at .688 when lathed and sized,
as their first experiment.I have taken the
Nyati case which is same as 577 minus rim
and shrunk it to .628.Ed.

quote:

fritz454

Nice bullet's

How often do you have to change out your cutters on you CNC.

Martin, I use CBN coated cutters and although they are expensive I can get several thousand bullets before I need to swap inserts. Regular TiN coated inserts give me about 25% of the life of the CBN inserts.

There are a few tricks to get good bullets all of the time. I'm holding +/-.00005 on Dia once the job is running. I've actually seen no difference in a tolerance of +/-.0002 but if the machine will do it why not. IT takes some doing to set up to get those kinds of tolerances and to get it in every bullet. BUt hopefully after being inthe business for 34 years I've learned a few things.

John

BTW Marting if you're ever out this way I'd love to give you a nickles toor of the place.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Martin, I use CBN coated cutters and although they are expensive I can get several thousand bullets before I need to swap inserts. Regular TiN coated inserts give me about 25% of the life of the CBN inserts.

There are a few tricks to get good bullets all of the time. I'm holding +/-.00005 on Dia once the job is running. I've actually seen no difference in a tolerance of +/-.0002 but if the machine will do it why not. IT takes some doing to set up to get those kinds of tolerances and to get it in every bullet. BUt hopefully after being inthe business for 34 years I've learned a few things.

John

BTW Marting if you're ever out this way I'd love to give you a nickles toor of the place.

Same here buddy .. If your ever stuck in this town or pass by drop me a line .. i will put you to work ..LOL ..

As for tin coated .. ya i neverthought much of the tin coated ones myself thay alsways reminded to much or that harbor Freight companys tooling Yuk.....

Hey just on a side note .. ALaska Bullet Comany just bought a set of .550 swage dies for that monster press there runing the one that runs nine dies at a time ... Must make more .550 diameter bullets... on the lighter side ..thay dont bond out there bullet's though.

Do you make any .403 diameter bullet's for the 10.15 MM ? Just checking ...

And thanks buddy for the invite ..

Don't know if your interested but I've got three power presses sitting here. two 15 tons and one 60 ton. I use the 60 tone for shapping die sets every once in a while but maybe the 15 ton presses would have some use for forming bullets. I've thought about making gass checks for the 550 with one of them.

Hey put me to work it's the best way to learn someting new and I'm deffinately not afraid of work. been doing 7 day work weeks for the last 15 years and probably average 16 hr days.

I havn't made any .403s yet. I just got out of the hospital with a suspected HA but turned out to be stress. Sure felt pretty bad. Anyway, now I'm just trying to catch back up and get some rest. The whole ordeal tired the hell out of me.

John

Stress sucks. Hard to give a damn and still avoid it though. I'm glad it wasn't something worse, Fritz.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Don't know if your interested but I've got three power presses sitting here. two 15 tons and one 60 ton. I use the 60 tone for shapping die sets every once in a while but maybe the 15 ton presses would have some use for forming bullets. I've thought about making gass checks for the 550 with one of them.

Hey put me to work it's the best way to learn someting new and I'm deffinately not afraid of work. been doing 7 day work weeks for the last 15 years and probably average 16 hr days.

I havn't made any .403s yet. I just got out of the hospital with a suspected HA but turned out to be stress. Sure felt pretty bad. Anyway, now I'm just trying to catch back up and get some rest. The whole ordeal tired the hell out of me.

John

John .. you know i just bought that new one from Richard ... he HydraSwage. ..It was going to A-Square but i bought it instead.. to bad
A-Square ...Na Na Na Na .. it does ok right now i am running a 40 foot extenstion cord to the press .

I need to gett he wiring done up in that room .
The press does about 980.000 Lb of presser on a 2 inch plate . Right now i can do bullets from Copper rod stock ..Well no i cant i dont have the dies yet .
I have squished .. one out using my .500 die
for the hydra swage it works ok if i run the press up to 2300 on the dial I think that translates to about 700.000
Pounds of pressure i was going to try and cannelure the hell out of the bullets and give them that grooved look but Na ..

The noses look kinda funny unless i drill the tip that way the end can fold into itself.

Tell ya what i will put the press on Atuo feed that way all you do is stick in bonded cores
and bullet's pop out and fall off the back and repet.. over and over and ..Well i think you get the jest

stress hats that ? ...I just screwed up one whole batch of .700 diameter bullets becouse i forgot to annel them ...
100 bullets down the drain thats what i live for ..Not!


John.. Glad to hear your ok buddy

Sorry boys for the

Martin

PA Bullet's