Do I NEED a bigger rifle than 416 Rem Mag?

25 January 2010, 21:29

Fellow AR members

Please help me with a decision. I have an oppurtunity to receive a free (work bonus)rifle from my boss. I mentioned that I would be going elephant hunting next time I go back to Africa. He's not really the hunting type, but this is his way of being involved with my hobby. I already have 3 Dakota African rilfes chambered in 416 rem mag, 458 win mag and 375 h&h. Now, I know any of these rifles will kill a elephant. What I want to know is, as a client, do I need a elephant stopping rifle i.e. 458 lott or larger? I want to stay with Dakota (I like my battery to be of same manufacture) So that being said I'm limited to 450 dakota, 460 weatherby or 458 lott (thats as big as Dakota makes) Your thoughts are appreciated.

CTJ

25 January 2010, 21:34

GeorgeS

Have your boss buy you a .338 Win. Mag., and re-chamber your .458 Win Mag. to the Lott.

Then, you'll two of God's three chosen calibers (.338 Win Mag. , .375H&H Mag., and .30-06).

George

25 January 2010, 21:44

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

Actually, the 458 win mag is a traveler with a extra 338 win mag barrel.

25 January 2010, 22:06

jsl3170

I think you answered your own question - as the client, do you need a stopping rifle? no, that's the pro's job. sounds like if you do your's he won't have to do his.

incidentally, can I come to work for your boss??

25 January 2010, 22:06

GeorgeS

Nice combination!

In that case, see if Dakota will build you a .495 or .500 A-Square, based on the .460Wby case.

George

25 January 2010, 22:14

ledvm

You have a stopping rifle...the 4-5-8 WM!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

25 January 2010, 22:14

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

quote:
Originally posted by jsl3170:
I think you answered your own question - as the client, do you need a stopping rifle? no, that's the pro's job. sounds like if you do your's he won't have to do his.

incidentally, can I come to work for your boss??

Oh, I forgot to mention. My boss is also my father.

25 January 2010, 22:24

clintsfolly

then have him buy you more ammo or reloading stuff then shoot more clint

25 January 2010, 22:29

Charles_Helm

458 WM should be good to go. Put the money into trophy fees if the boss will go along...

25 January 2010, 23:05

Dave Bush

quote:
Originally posted by CARLOSTHEJACKAL:
Fellow AR members

Please help me with a decision. I have an oppurtunity to receive a free (work bonus)rifle from my boss. I mentioned that I would be going elephant hunting next time I go back to Africa. He's not really the hunting type, but this is his way of being involved with my hobby. I already have 3 Dakota African rilfes chambered in 416 rem mag, 458 win mag and 375 h&h. Now, I know any of these rifles will kill a elephant. What I want to know is, as a client, do I need a elephant stopping rifle i.e. 458 lott or larger? I want to stay with Dakota (I like my battery to be of same manufacture) So that being said I'm limited to 450 dakota, 460 weatherby or 458 lott (thats as big as Dakota makes) Your thoughts are appreciated.

CTJ

Carlos:

If you have an opportunity to get this rifle for free and you are going to stick with a Dakota, my suggestion would be go with the .450 Dakota. A Dakota cartridge in a Dakota rifle would be my pick. I have a .450 Dakota built by AHR and I can tell you it is a spectacular cartridge. I have no problem getting 2400 fps with 450 grain Barnes TSX bullet or banded solids at very modest pressures and I would bet that would be great elephant medicine.

Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).

25 January 2010, 23:26

dogcat

quote:
Originally posted by CARLOSTHEJACKAL:
quote:
Originally posted by jsl3170:
I think you answered your own question - as the client, do you need a stopping rifle? no, that's the pro's job. sounds like if you do your's he won't have to do his.

incidentally, can I come to work for your boss??

Oh, I forgot to mention. My boss is also my father.

I am available for adoption!!!

25 January 2010, 23:38

Will

You'd be a lot better off if you would quit waxing about caliber and start concerning yourself with the real task at hand: where to shoot the elephant.

-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________

"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.

red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________

If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.

25 January 2010, 23:43

Biebs

And if you're not 100% sure, buy Will's book!!!

25 January 2010, 23:46

0X0

.458 Win. Mag. is one of the most popular calibers in Africa for Dangerous Game. Used extensively by guides for back up. Rechambering for the Lott is a simple, inexpensive process if your action will manage the longer OAL. (And the Lott chamber will shoot the Win. Mag. too.)

But the Win. Mag. is adequate, and there are other expenses in the hunt that your dad/boss might care to help out with.

26 January 2010, 01:23

TerryR

I agree with Charles-Helm, forget the rifle you have all the bases covered. Tell your Boss that you would really like for him to pay for your Dad to go along as an observer. You will both have a ball. Take a 30-06 along in case he decides that he might want to try your hobby.

26 January 2010, 01:46

Magnum Hunter1

As a client, NO. I have used the .458 on elephant with perfect results, and buff and giraffe and impala....

26 January 2010, 02:02

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

Well, I just hung up with Richard at Dakota. I explained my "dilemma" to him and asked for his no b.s. opinion. Much to his credit, he said flat out that "as a client" the 416 would do everything I needed it to do.

Maybe I will see if the "boss" would rather pay for the trophy fee instead!

Thanks for your opinions

CTJ

26 January 2010, 04:14

jeffeosso

1: in the same weight rifle there is LITTLE recoil difference in a 416 rem and a 458 win ... (about 10%)
2: if you shoot one better than the other, use that one

Now, if you like, spend all the money on reloading and trophies.

26 January 2010, 04:40

Big Bore Boar Hunter

I think it has been said, but I will reiterate, take your dad along, you will enjoy that more than another rifle. I think there is very little you couldn't do with a 416, and you have a 458 along as a backup weapon in case your 416 gives you problems.

John

26 January 2010, 05:14

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
You have a stopping rifle...the 4-5-8 WM!!!

I thought bullets fired from a Winnie bounced off of elephants heads. I bet if you slowed the bullet down to 1500 fps it would penetrate

take your Father. I would give anything I own to hunt with mine in Africa just once.

26 January 2010, 07:07

Big Bore Boar Hunter

quote:
Originally posted by Mike70560:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
You have a stopping rifle...the 4-5-8 WM!!!

I thought bullets fired from a Winnie bounced off of elephants heads. I bet if you slowed the bullet down to 1500 fps it would penetrate

take your Father. I would give anything I own to hunt with mine in Africa just once.

The only creature I couldn't kill with the 458 win is the Easter Bunny. Thats one tough bunny.

John