So even though I have no need for any more projects, and my 416 Safari Express does everything I need it to, I found myself with a Winchester Model 70 CRF in 7STW and a Clymer 458 Lott reamer...hmmmm.

I remember John Ricks suggested screwing AND soldering a recol lug on the barrel. Does anyone have a pict of the finished deal?

Any other suggestions for the second lug?

tell ya what,
after this project, you can sell me the reamer.

*I* suggest, and have done it, to leave a washer around the barrel, which will become the intregal sightbase AND recoil lug.

the safari express, if it has a lug, is a good example of a TIG WELDED lug.

I have mixed feeling on attaching these lugs, as I have broken off a soldered one... but it was MY work, so that's what I think the problem was.

Dave says a light dovetail and then solder
Rob says a #12 screw and then solder
Jeffe says "intregal takes about 2 hours longer than mounting the sight AND the lug, so why not"
and I also say "tig it on"


but ALL of us say

it MUST perfectly fit the contour of the barrel

when you bed it, you'll have to do at least 2 pours, as bedding both recoil lugs will certainly lock the action in

jeffe

Jeff, the front lug of the SE is stuck on with some uber-technical resistance weld. Lots of splatter and no visable bead.

I can't believe that welding it on is the best solution though. Just too many stress issues and I have enough stress already.

My smith told me the strength of a silver soldered (brazed) on joint when properly done, it's tremendous and I don't see one needing to be welded. I'll have one silver soldered onto my big gun.

integral parts of course are classy and Jeffe gets to do his own stuff, normally if you have a smith doing integrals on a barrel for you it is gonna cost.

Red

Welding is a bad idea period. a single screw and brownells hard solder works perfectly well. The trick is to contour the barrel mounted lug to EXACTLY match the barrel contour, then D&T and solder.-rob

quote:

strength of a silver soldered (brazed) on joint when properly done,

Brazing and silver solder require lots of heat. Hope he is, at very least, putting inert gas down the bore. The heat necessary to melt all the silver solder at once will make scale if you don't protect it. You are heating a good chunk of the barrel one side to red heat. It could even leave the barrel a little crooked. I would tig it first and use inert gas. I think you would spread less heat that way.

I think Rob is right though. A good solder job with good solder, Force 44 from Brownells?, and a screw should be pleanty. If I were still a little worried a snug fitting dowel soldered in , a the same time, would be quick and easy. The dowl would take the shear insted of the solder. Never tried it though.

quote:

Originally posted by Scota4570:

quote:

strength of a silver soldered (brazed) on joint when properly done,

Brazing and silver solder require lots of heat. Hope he is, at very least, putting inert gas down the bore. The heat necessary to melt all the silver solder at once will make scale if you don't protect it. You are heating a good chunk of the barrel one side to red heat. It could even leave the barrel a little crooked. I would tig it first and use inert gas. I think you would spread less heat that way.

I think Rob is right though. A good solder job with good solder, Force 44 from Brownells?, and a screw should be pleanty. If I were still a little worried a snug fitting dowel soldered in , a the same time, would be quick and easy. The dowl would take the shear insted of the solder. Never tried it though.

This is the main reson why D.R.'s are rust blued, the heat would destrouy the solider holding the barrels to the rib. Charlie

My smith said that silver solder is stronger than you would think and he does not like to weld barrels.

Put me in the silver solder camp, and anti weld camp. You may put more overall heat in when soldering, but welding a lug will have locallized very high heat, and subsequently induce stresses in the barrel, a bad thing. You could do a pre-weld heat soak, and a post weld heat soak to reduce stress build up, but then you'd be putting even more heat in the barrel then you would by soldering.

I fabbed up a crude second lug for my first 458 Lott, which came with a well cracked stock, and it held up superbly. Adding a screw ala Rob is the way to go, as it provides allignment and some strength. With sufficient surface area and a good joint, there is no way your going to peel the lug off. Just make sure the lug is well tinned before soldering, and you won't have to be drawing lots of solder in under heat.

Integral is ne plus ultra, but not an option for existing barrels.

I think we may be talking apples and oranges on the "solder". Silver solder is made of a silver alloy. AKA "hard solder" I am not talking about lead alloys, tin non toxic stuff, eutectic solder, or silver bearing solder. Those will melt at something like 3-500 deg. f. Silver solder (hard solder), on the other hand, will require the parts to be heated to over 1300 deg. F. It will be glowing red hot when the solder melts. Strong, yes, very, 40K psi shear strength, if I remember correctly. But not on my $400+ barrel.

Here is a link to some different types of solder,

http://shorinternational.com/Solders.htm

As you can see "solder" covers a lot of ground.

Brazing alloys are normally used where you need to build something up. It is not runny, like silver solder. Yes it can be made to work to stick close fitting parts together but, silver alloy is better for that. Braze, like silver solder, requires the parts to be heated to red heat.

On the brazing parts together. I have used braze to join two flat pieces. I tinned them first. Clamped them in place put heat to them. When the braze melted it squirted out and some of it hit me. Not fun. Silver solder paste is the stickum of choice for such jobs. It wicks into the small gaps. But again, not for a good barrel, IMHO.

I never have found silver solder to be runny if you flux properly. Good fit is critical as is fluxing. Never had to heat steel red hot to get it to flow either. Apply solder when the flux paste gets a wet look to it..... Purging a bbl with inert gas (argon) will keep it from sugering, when tig welding. Though I would hate to heat up steel to its melting point on a bored and rifled bbl.If it were stainless you could probably shoot around trees after it cooled and not be seen by your quary.As it will pull terribly to heat.I dont think I would ever use brass (brazing) on a gun of anysort.......

I use a barrel band lug/rear sight combination, and it is soldered on with 44-40..I do not want the kind of heat that you get from Silver Solder or tig welding on my good gun barrel...I suppose you could use a tap screw in the Barrel band at some point if you felt the need..but proper soldering works fine. I might mention that not a lot of folks can solder properly, self included...I would prefer Jack Belk to do all my soldering...

Talked to a guy who has done a bunch of these. He suggested milling a slot in the barrel to key into the recoil lug. Then screw the lug to the barrel. No muss or fuss just done, and will never move, I like it. : )

Here is how I do it and it works on 585 Nyati's and .600 OK's. First I machine a block of steel about .5X.75X.75. with the exact barrel contour machined into the block. It's drilled for a 8X32 screw and the barrel is D&T'd 8X32. I use brownells force 44 solder. I talc the barrel around the lug so the solder won't run and rough up both mating parts. I use a air/acetylene torch and apply just enough heat to get the solder to coat both the barrel and the lug. Now screw the lug to the barrel while applying just enough heat to keep the solder molten. The talc keeps the solder from messig up the barrel and when you blue the barrel you sometimes can't even see the fine solder line. No big deal and I've never had one break. -Rob