quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
It seems to be a circular argument. A scope is good for precise shooting but needs to be que-dee because in a charge situation it becomes a liability. But in a charge there's absolutely no time to remove a scope so why bother with quick release mounts? Seems to me there's only two schools here...scope (regardless of mount system) or no scope at all.

Signed,

Confused

Ask the speed shooting boys and combat vets if scopes are slow. The army and marines have gone optical and the run and gun boys have been shooting scopes and dots for a long time.

SSR

Good point. Shooting 150 pound mammals or targets with an automatic .223 or .45 is pretty much apples-to-apples with shooting a several ton mammal with a big bore bolt action rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Good point. Shooting 150 pound mammals or targets with an automatic .223 or .45 is pretty much apples-to-apples with shooting a several ton mammal with a big bore bolt action rifle.

actually you have to wait for the several ton mammal to getty-up and eventually run you down/over,... whereas your military oponent can take you out from a very near or far distance, at several thousand fps!

To each his own. Anyone wanting to hunt dangerous game up close and personal with a scoped rifle is welcome to. As for me, I will follow the lead of the hundreds of PHs who have decided that using an open sight rifle of a suitably large caliber is the recommended approach. If the former was the superior method I am confident we would see more PHs use it. The fact that few, if any, do, speaks volumns to me.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I have a hard time considering a rifle with with a scope, fixed power or variable, in fixed or QD mounts, as a dangerous game rifle. It would be interesting to do a count -- how many PH's carry rifles with scopes, fixed or variable, in fixed or QD mounts? My guess is that you would struggle to break 10%, if that high.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
No one else will say it but a rifle with a fixed scope is not a dangerous game rifle, it is a rifle requiring backup from the PH.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Dangerous game rifles with fixed scope mounts?

Please.

It is in the least misleading and disingenuous, if not flat out criminal. And dangerous.

So as it stands,
clients pay to hunt DG with a fixed scope bigbore, and the PH will use his open sighted rifle take car of anything that goes wrong,
but the PH really feels the client should not be hunting with a fixed scope, for it is not a dangerous game rifle,
but knowingly allows DG hunting to be potentially more dangerous & risky than it need be, for both himself and the client, simply for the sake of money.

Reckon a scope, red dot, or a laser was used to shoot O/Usama Bin Laden in the forehead from across his bedroom?

A properly low power scope or red dot is the fastest and most accurate sight in any situation.
Laser dot might be faster?

Any properly fitting long gun can be instinctively pointed and shot in a hurry, in a charge, even one with open sights.
In fact the shallow V express sight must be so ignored if one is in a real hurry.

How about a thread on laser-guided-only DGRs?
Just kidding.

Seems to be it was a waterbed that O/Usama was spooked out of for the double tap, from my observation of the news footage/photos.

O/U: First in the head, then in the chest, then sleep with the fishes. Another water bed more fitting.

i shoot better with a scope than with irons. thanks, i'll pay my money and take my chances, as as in town.

if *I* am paying, and i wanted to hunt with a 5-16 416 whizbang, then, damnit, thats MY dream.

though i'd likely show up with a 1-5 or 2.5x fixed ..

i aint the bloody PH, i would be the PAYING customer . and yeah, i do expect some lattitude in choice of weapon for that priviledge.

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
As I recall when George Parkin hunted with my buddy in 2004 he had a 416 Remington Model 700 Rem with a scope on it for his rifle. They were hunting buffalo.

I do not know if it had QD mounts.
BigB

I hunted with George in 2003 and his 416 had fixed mounts.

He said he mounted the scope after a wounded hippo tried to have a go at him at dusk and he could not see the open sights.

The scope was a Leupold 1.5-5x.

So we have one PH that used a scoped dangerous game rifle, wonder if there is a number two?

Richard Hill, formerly of miambo? (scotty and michelle ran it) safari, in tanz, used two rifles.. 416 rigby cz, 1.5x5 leupold, and a searcy 577NE .. the 577 was unscoped, da'cord.. and the 416 was his nominal goto rifle. at least 3 other PHs in that outfit used scoped rifles primarily, but i don't recall particulars at this time, so we wont count them)

appartly pondo uses a scoped rifle. call RGB if you want to be intertained for hours on his stories

and St Finn used a scoped 375, from time to time. Mike, I believe you've shot the rifle.


there's 2, 3, and 4 ..

Allan Day's favorite rifle, in his pictures, had NO sights.. no provision for them.

in other words, gents, i believe some are being a tad too purist. of course, my opinion means jack. heck, mark sullivan doesn't use scopes in his videos .. the cliens frequently do, but his "full power" double rifles are irons only.

IIRC Ivan Carter is using a red dot on his doubles. Dont know if you consider that a scope but its sure not irons--

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
It seems to be a circular argument. A scope is good for precise shooting but needs to be que-dee because in a charge situation it becomes a liability. But in a charge there's absolutely no time to remove a scope so why bother with quick release mounts? Seems to me there's only two schools here...scope (regardless of mount system) or no scope at all.

Signed,

Confused

Ask the speed shooting boys and combat vets if scopes are slow. The army and marines have gone optical and the run and gun boys have been shooting scopes and dots for a long time.

SSR

You may have misread my statement; I never said scopes are slow. I did say there seemed seldom time in an emergency like a charge to switch sighting sytems.

I was looking at where you said a scope became a liability, if I misconstrued I apologize.

SSR

No need for apology. I was paraphrasing other posts and should have bracketed that with quotaion marks. I see how it could be read your way.