I just purchased an Ed Brown 458 Lott and want to scope it. I was all set to put a Trijicon on it till a Nightforce was suggested. I have a Nightforce 1X4 on another gun and could switch easily. My concern is the weight of the Nightforce scope and the Talley rings on the gun. Should I have any concerns about the heavy scope sliding in the rings under recoil? The rings have been lapped so contact should be good. Also what is the thought on the durability of the Nightforce with recoil?

a friend of mine had one a winmag .. it kissed him in the head

Jeff: The 1X4 has pretty good eye relief. It is listed at 3.7 inches. The gun has an ample length of pull so that part should be OK. I will sight it in from a standing rest.

3.7" .. okay .. i think the scope will hold up to it, but i have a nice scar from a leupold 1.75x5 ...

Now I'm confused. Nightforce's web site shows 3.5 inches of eye relief and the booklet I received with the scope shows 3.7. I guess I'll go with the 3.5 figure. Is that .2 of an inch critical? I know the answer is to try it but that can sometimes be a painful learning experience.

The scope can certainly take the recoil but even that model is mighty heavy. While the extra weight improves felt recoil, it also increases recovery time. That may not be an issue in your application. The only other issue may be screw size. With a heavy scope I'd prefer 8x40.

Bases are installed with 8-40 screws.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I have a Nightforce 1X4 on another gun and could switch easily. My concern is the weight of the Nightforce scope and the Talley rings on the gun. Should I have any concerns about the heavy scope sliding in the rings under recoil?

Yes you should be concerned, Nightforce scopes are heavy like Schmit&Bender scopes.

I have a nightforce on order- but for a lighter recoiling rifle. On my lightweight 9,3x62 (7lbs) the recoil shered the screws in the mounts when I stuck a Nikon 1,5-6 (30mm tube) on it. Had to go to 4mm srews....

I really really like my old Leupold 1-4. I mounted it on a .458 Lott we were playing with for some load development. Held up fine, didn't sheer screws etc. For 10 years that little scope has bounced arround Africa. Hard to beat it!

Have gone to the Leupold 1,5-5 Illuminated ret on the 9,3 these days as the number of lion hunts I do has increased...otherwise I would have been very happy with the old one.

LJS,
Use some elmers glue in the rings.
It will not damage the finish on the scope and it does help.
Loctite too.
It will not slip with either of these.

As to the NightForce and durability........Never, will you find a scope that is constructed better or stronger.

If any one doubts this, pay a visit to nightforce and watch the torture tests on ever other sope made. They all come apart in the "machine" they use to test their scopes. S&B, Leupold, Swarovski, Zeiess...all flying parts in a matter of minutes.

I would go with a Swarovski EER [Extended Eye Relief].

LJS-. lOOK YOUR PROBABLY NEVER GOING TO SHOOT IT OFF THE BENCH AT OVER 100YRDS MORE THAN ONCE IN YOUR LIFE. You dont need a Nightforce scope or a S&B or a swarofski! I have them all and ill tell you a secret! A leupold 2.5X compact will do perfectly well on a .458 Lott and you will never break it or have it hit you in the eye. Send me the money you save in cost of the scope and doctors bills. I need it!-Rob

I dont know about linear forces, but i know they handle lateral forces quite well... http://media.photobucket.com/i.../NightforceAK-47.jpg .. ..

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
I dont know about linear forces, but i know they handle lateral forces quite well... http://media.photobucket.com/i.../NightforceAK-47.jpg .. ..

Good thing the cat died , shame about the sheep ..

I put a Burris Safari 1 3/4 X 5 on my 458 Lott.
I get tired of changing the scope back and forch
when it brakes you gotta send it back to the manufacture wait a week or two. Then put it back on the rifle.

LJS, Not exactly the subject of the thread, just a comment. I think you'll find the Ed Brown one of the finest rifles you've owned. They are pure function, quality, durability, and reliability. Ed puts together some great hunting machines. I've had a few...and want more Biebs

I have a Leupold 1.5 - 5x on my 500 Jeffrey, not enough rounds in it yet to tell how it will hold up, but lots of people with big kickers swear by them. Rob's suggestion of a 2.5x fixed may be even better. At full power (570g at 2300 fps) recoil in my rifle should be similar to a lighter 458 Lott shooting 500g at 2300 fps, which is to say unpleasant from the bench particularly with a scope. Offhand my head moves back with rifle's recoil, off the bench that scope seems to come back a whole bunch faster. I'm almost done with my bench shooting though, then offhand, kneeling and maybe sitting positions will be all I do (no prone!). I've been thinking about an UltraDot Red Dot sight, but I'm wondering about parallax error.



Chuck

Biebs: I agree with you about the Ed Brown guns. This is my third and I too want some more!!!

Thanks for all the input! I have decided to put a Leupold 1.5X5 on it. The eye relief, field of view, weight etc. all looked good with the Leupold variable.

So you got around sending me the money by buying a 1.5X5 leupold instead of the 2.5X. You would be better off with the 2.5X. Just wait till you FORGET and see only Buff ass hair in that 5X scope at 30 yrds. You'll wish you listened? -Rob

Personally I do not like any 30 mm scope on a big bore rifle. They are huge, heavy, big, eye relief and field of view is always a concern, weight is a big factor. Smaller is better. There is NOTHING out there that can compare with the 1.5X5 Leupold--NOTHING Period! The only thing that comes close is the VXII 1X4! I have worked with the 1.5X5 for over 15 years, have been there done that with them on elephant, lion, bears, buffalo, you name it from a matter of feet on DG out to a couple of hundred yards on plains game, never had a problem in the field.

I have one 2.5 Leupold--it falls very short in the field of view department, so short that I would not use it except in limited manner. Rob, wrong on this one, sorry. First one should not walk around on 5X to begin with--2.5-3X is fine, even up very very close to a matter of a few feet.

LJS--buy the 1.5X5 Leupold-take the extra money you would have spent on the 30 mm tubes and buy another 1.5X5 Leupold as backup just in case. Money well spent! Regardless of scope, always have a backup!

Opinions, we all have them.

Michael

If I were you I'd put a proven Scope on the Lott

Like the Burris or Leopole. Those other scopes

Will brake . The best to you.

Excuse me, but with my two eyes open and bringing the scope up into MY FIELD OF VIEW, I continue to see everything. I dont just look through the scope or close my eye. Its both eyes open looking at the game with the scope crosshairs PART of the FIELD OF VIEW not defining it! No issues ever with a 2.5X other than it never breaks and I too have hunted EXTENSIVELY! Seen a whole lot of guys with lotsa experience walking around with their scopes set at 9X-15X too!-Rob

Hard to go wrong with the Leupold 1.5-5x on a big bore - that is what I use.

I have a Nightforce scope on my 458 Lott and am quite pleased with it. There is no problem with the scope moving in the rings under recoil and the eye relief is quite sufficient.

Rob

You are excused! The Leupold2.5X is a tiny excellent little scope. No issues. Just the field of view. What about the poor bastard with only one eye? And obviously those good ole boys walking around with their scopes set on 9X-15X in the field hunting whatever don't have that much experience or they would do better than that? That would be the mark of an amateur for sure. Also can't quite figure what one would do with 9X-15X on a 458 Lott.

I have a few folks at Leupold that I know, recently they sent me one of the 1.5X6 (I think) VX7 30mm scopes to see if I could break it! I put this thing on one of my little 50 B&M Longs, and it held up fine, no problems. Eye relief a bit shorter than the 1.5X5VX3, also field of view a little short, but the problem was that it was just so big and bulky! It was awful. Big, long, bulky, thick, sit too high on the rifle, it looked like the space shuttle sitting on a Cessna! I sent it back to them, thanked them graciously of course, but no thanks keep the big 30mm rigs for something else.

Michael

Yep,
Leupold 2.5X
Leupold 1-4X
Leupold 1-5X

I could make do just fine with a Leupold 2.5X for everything.
Standard duplex for varmints, heavy duplex for elephant.
If the field of view is insufficient, then I am close enogh to point and shoot instinctively.

Any of those three Leupolds will do, however.
Pick any two of those three for any sporting big bore.
Gotta have a backup scope in addition to iron sights.

Better not rely on 8x40 screws alone if you are using a Night Force Hog or Schmidt and Bender Sumu on a .458 Lott!
You better J-B-Weld/epoxy the bases to the action as well as using the larger screws.
Integral bases are indicated.

I've tried a Leupold 3x and a Leupold 1-4x on my 470 Mbogo. They work awesome. Plenty-o-eye relief and plenty durable too, in both cases.

I had the 3x on for the 3 cape buff I shot with it, and was not left wanting.

fixed 2.5 scout leupold wont hit you both eyes open field of view and my lott cant seem to break it.

I'm a fan of keeping the scope as light weight as possible on big bore rifles.

Funny that with my normal field of view with both of my eye OPEN, those tiny 2.5X Leupolds seem to do just fine( I've got two eyes), Cant seem to break em with 10,00ft-lb rifles and can even usually hit what I'm aiming at out to 150yrds or so. I guess if I slowed down my shooting ALOT and closed one eye and crept the stock more I'd need a bigger field of View. huh! Well OPINIONS VARY! -Rob

Rob the 2.5X Leupold is a very good little scope. I bought one because of it's size and weight. I was not as pleased with it because of it's field of view in comparison with the 1.5X5 VX, that is all. The problem is that near nothing can compare with the 1.5X5 or 1X4 Leupold when it comes to eye relief and field of view. I did not say it was prone to breakage, nothing about creeping the stock, no attacks on it at all. I have 1 Leupold 2.5X and well over a dozen 1.5X5 Leupolds. There is a reason for that!

"I guess if I slowed down my shooting ALOT and closed one eye and crept the stock more I'd need a bigger field of View. huh! Well OPINIONS VARY! -Rob"

I am not quite sure at what speed you are shooting your big bores, and if closing one eye causes you to creep the stock or not. For ME I like field of view when in the bush and nasty critters are very close and want to bite me--I like to see as much of them as I can regardless of how many eyes I have. I don't need field of view at 150 yds, I need field of view at 5 yds.

Michael

Michael- Your missing my tounge n cheek point. What I'm saying is we have found the 2.5X leupold to be one of the most reliable scopes in existance for big bores and more than adequte for DGR hunting. Other scopes may be great but many have broken particularily the heavy high end ones. I tend to go with what I know works and provide that advice to others. They are free to do as they please but look how many times they ask for advice!At 5yrds and actually to 75 yrds I prefer to use no scope at all. Open sights and at 5 yrds and less, Front sight only, just like a pistol. Been there and done that. I shoot very fast and accurately and never close my eye. Binocular vision pointing foreward at the threat or game like any true carnivor. Train yourself to bring a scope up into your field of binocular vision rather than having the scope define your field of vision. It makes a world of difference particularily on moving game. Not trying to be demeaning in any way, but I really do know what works and doesnt on DGR's. -Rob

Hey Rob

I am sure that you are familiar with DGR and have no question, but I am very familiar with these things too and have been there done it all with them too. I like the 2.5X Leupold and if a 1.5X5 did not exist then it would be my first choice! Reliable? Oh hell yes, can't be broke if done proper! You see there is a difference in eyes is where there comes an issue. With a sight plane that is 4-5 inches in front of my eyes I have double vision when both are open and I see the scope in my right eye, outside area in the left eye. So I see at least 1.5 to 2 lions instead of 1 lion! I don't know if I am weird, or my eyes are too close together, or if I am just F&%*#d up???? But if I get that focal plane say 10 inches in front then I can keep both eyes completely open and see the entire world at that point-for instance a forward mount scout scope or forward of the receiver mounted Aimpoint--I really like the Aimpoints forward for that. But if it is a normal mounted scope I have to at least squint the left eye a bit to get rid of the double vision??? No crap, ain't kidding or making it up, can't physically keep both eyes open at that distance!

I also shoot fairly fast and plenty enough accurate, and practice these things regular. Close, 10 yds and less times are about the same, first shot from port in 1.1-1.4, irons, Aimpoint or scope, this has to be in a 4 inch circle or it is zero. Over several shots my accuracy will be the best with the scope, I pick it up very easy and shooting between 5000-8000 rounds of nothing but big bore above 416 a year I get plenty of practice, so I damn sure better pick things up quick. If not then I am wasting my time eh! For close like this I can do irons without issue, but my eyes don't like iron sights much past 50 yds, so on combination hunts like in africa where you might be hunting buff one minute and then here is a fantastic sable around the next bend at 150 yds then I would be out of my area of comfort with irons only, way out! Hell I might not even be able to see a damn sable at 150 yds!

So you see I have terrible issues with the eyes--see double without squinting the left eye, or closing completely, can't see the damn irons good enough to trust at distance and so on and so forth, and no amount of training will do that for you!

As for other scopes--mainly any of the 30 mm scopes regardless of manufacturer, they are too big, too bulky, too heavy too everything and too much! DGR needs to have a small, reliable, well made sight system, one that functions mechanically. If one is looking for glass, buy some binoculars.

Thanks for the advice!

Michael

Michael- I understand your comments now. My advice, however remains the same for those folks with normal vision. Glad you've found a solution to that problem. I would feel terrible if i could not use open sights as I'm most comfortable with them. -Rob

Rob
Excellent, think we finally got on the same page! Your advice is correct and those that can should absolutely do their best with both eyes when things get close, if one can do so.

Open sights, well I do well up close 25 and in, getting 25-50 I see a difference and past 50 I start to have some issues. If I am on a single task mission, know for a fact things are going to be close then I have gone with nothing but the irons. But those occasions are very rare, most of my excursions are either multi task, or no guarantees of close, some even at night, so the scope works best for me overall.

Anyway, we have to do what we have to do!

Thanks
Michael