500 Jeffery vs 505 Gibbs
Any real advantages of one over the other?

More bullet selection for the Jeffrey, .510".

Both are cartridges that do not get even close to using their capacity in factory ammunition.

To use them, one should plan on 8500ftlb loads and higher. Otherwise, a person is better off with a Rigby-size cartridge like 500A2 or 500Mbogo (beltless), both of which are good for 8000+ ftlbs. If 6000-7000 ftlb. is the anticipated load range, then the 500 AccRel Nyati (based on Rigby, but limited to 2.65" case) allows one to build off of a standard-length action. No sense carrying an extra pound or three of rifle or burning an extra 15-30 grains of powder for nothing.

And let's not forget the superbly designed 500AR powerhouse for standard length actions.

And don't forget the little B&Ms in the WSM actions.

It has to be a CIP cartridge with factory ammo available, others will not work

Jeffery is easier to reload for since the Gibbs requires a bigger die/bushing than virtually all other calibers. Jeffery fits a standard length action, Gibbs will not. Less risk of short stroking a Jeffery than a Gibbs. Some do not like the rebated rim on the Jeffery. Gibbs gets the nod for the coolness factor since it looks like an ICBN.

As previously mentioned, the only real advantage would be the much better selection of projectiles for the Jeffery, although that could be negated by doing a 505/510 wildcat on the Gibbs case.

Both cases have their pros and cons, but basically for me it comes down to two considerations: do you want to invest in a true magnum sized action for the Gibbs, or do you want to take your chances ith the feeding gremlins associated with the Jeffery? I started my quest for a .50 caliber hunting rifle about nine years ago with a CZ in the .505. I actually liked that rifle pretty good, but decided to sell it off to help fund the purchase of a higher end ( more expensive is always better, right? ) rifle chambered for the . 500 Jeffery. Long story, short, two Jeffery's and several trips to some highly respected gunsmiths later, I find myself the proud owner of a .500A2!

I know there are plenty of guys out there who have Jeffery's that are completely reliable and feed slicker than snot, but it simply wasn't in the cards for me. Looking back on it, if I had it all to do over again, I would have simply kept that first CZ Gibbs and been done with it, but I've finally circled back around and have something that works for me and I'm happy with .

I went with purchasing a CZ from the custom shop with very nice wood in the Gibbs and could not be happier. Plenty of bullet choices available. I did not want to entertain the 500 J feeding issues....not worth the headache. Besides, the 505 Gibbs has the historic WOW factor.

Kebco

As others above have stated, the 500 Jeffery is most likely the best choice.

the jeffe .. i designed the 500 accrel as an homage to the 500 jeffe, what can be done with modern powders and less effort...

ask anyone who has one, any of the 3 can be loaded past what you can stand

Both real nice classic cartridges. I have the 500 Jeffery and love it, though 7000 ft/lbs of energy and 90 ft/lbs of recoil
is quite enough for me...

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gibbs gets the nod for the coolness factor since it looks like an ICBN.

+1

500 AHR?

I picked the 500 Jeffery for the bullet selection. My CZ feeds all jacketed bullets as fast as I can rack the bolt, my 700 grain cast...I single load. The .505 gets the cool factor nod for sure. If I didn't have so many surplus .50 ball rounds I could have went either way. Its a personal preference, both put the hammer down!

Some things are certain...you can load the 505 G WAY up beyond the 500 J and down load it to the same level as the J...BUT...you CAN'T load the J beyond its limits.

The G has a case capacity of ~175 gr, my actual case volume weighting...the J is ~150 gr...more case volume, more pizzazz.

As to bullet selection...I think that is myth perpetrated by some gun rag writer looking for copy. It may have bee slightly true in the distant past...hair splitting aside...and of course someone can dig and find an argument...but you can also dig and find all the bullets you could possibly use without hardly trying.

That myth just keeps getting lip service on the net.

We humans just HAVE to keep the pot bubbling, don't we.. :>)

I don't think 0.005" will make much difference to the game you shoot either.

Most all, if not all, the large game bullet makers have almost identical bullets for both the 0.505' and the 0.510" diameter bullets anyway.

I would go with the 505 Gibbs knowing I have the ability to load from 50-70 to full house and everything in between.

And, as already been pointed out, there are more large caliber cartridges today than ever before...and more being designed every day...WHY limit your choices???

Balistically there is little differnce in the field or the killing effect on buffalo for instance..

The Jeffery is easier to make feed and function IMO as the case is smaller..

Both have a lot of nostalgia, and I think the Jefferys wins out on that..I put value on nostalgia and some do not..I think I feel sorry for those that do not, they are missing something, but maybe not!

Nothing wrong with nostalgia...I keep my 30-06 and 375 H&H and several others just for that reason, instead of upgrading to one of todays more modern cases...something about those long, slender cases and the sound they make rolling around in the palm of your hand.

I keep a 505 Gibbs case right next to the 585 GMA Express and 600 Overkill cases on my desk and constantly think about doing one or all three...most likely not.

I don't doubt you can load the Gibbs past the Jeffery, but my 500 Jeffery easily reaches 2500 fps with 570g bullets (not so my shoulder).

I've settled at a sedate 2410 fps myself (570g TSX or Barnes Banded Solid, 105g H4895, Federal 215 primers)

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I don't doubt you can load the Gibbs past the Jeffery, but my 500 Jeffery easily reaches 2500 fps with 570g bullets (not so my shoulder).

I've settled at a sedate 2410 fps myself (570g TSX or Barnes Banded Solid, 105g H4895, Federal 215 primers)

Yes, Gibbsy is to 50 cal what Rigby is to 416. while I can push the Rigby, I decided not to try to push the Gibbs, like you with the Jeffrey.

Recoil is the limiting factor in ALL large calibers for certain...130 ftlbs plus for 570 gr bullets at 2400-2500 fs takes some getting used to.

The question made me curious enough to do some research.

The size of the Gibbs case makes powder selection a bit problematic, coupled with the low published pressure of both the Gibbs and the Jeff.

Seems like a case of too much of a good thing might not be all that good after all. There is a ~12% difference in case capacity so before you even start you need to add that amount more powder to the Gibbs to even equal the velo's of the smaller cases.

I don't know if the receiver/bolt recoil lugs designed for the Gibbs will handle the 63KPSI plus of the 500 A-square, but if so then 2600 plus is possible with 570 gr bullets...at least theoretically by QL. Reality is always a cat of a different strip.

Still...BOTH have large amounts of bragging rights...just how many hunters can say they have either a 505 Gibbs or a 500 Jeffery, while the 145 gr Rigby cased 50's are getting to be to often underfoot. LOL

What velocity is possible with a 535 grain bullet in the 500 Jeffery? possible to get much higher than 2600FPS with good brass and a strong rifle?
And can you go higer than 2500 fps with a 600 grainer?
I am thinking of to buy a Blaser R8 or a Sako in the .500 Jeffery now when norma is making brass for it.

QL say yes to both questions at ~63KPSI or slightly above, but just barely and a with very limited powder selection. Real data suggests possibly, but very few push that far. I don't hunt large game anymore...just see how far I can get and still stay safe...and squirrels are very good targets. Not much left for the 'yotes tho'.

Check out the Reloading pages here on AR, some good data there and Google 500 Jeffery for more. Look on Ammo-guide for similar sized cartridges, lots of good data there..

I don't have a 500 J but I do have a 50 Rigby wildcat with the same case volume and I can get 525 gr cast lead bullets up to ~2650 fs actual chrono with 23" barrel and the bullet barely hanging in the case...BUT...the recoil is stiff to say the least, even with an MB and added lead weight plus a 25# bag of shot sissy bag...well above 100 ft lbs with some powders.

Last summer I messed up a bit and didn't get a good stance when I touched of a couple of those beasts...tore up some ligaments on my right side and I'm just now getting back well enough to shoot something besides a 17 FB.

I just loaded up some 665 gr cast lead bullets for my 50...~1900 fs :O, ;>) and ordered some 50 BMG 650 gr FMJ milspec bullets to try in all three of my 50's. Let see if I can stay together for a while.

I recently bought a CZ 500 Jeffreys for $2100.00 from Cabelas on special.It feeds and functions perfectly. Overkill I have looked at the Sako and for over 10K i don't think its worth it. I have an R8 and love the rifle i would be hesitant to buy one in 500 Jeffreys. Check out www.hunting-rifles.com Wayne can build you a 500 jeffreys or 505 for $6200.00
or look for a CZ in Sweden or see if you can buy one currently on special at Cabelas for $2399.00 and get it exported to Sweden. As others have said it is brutal to shoot at 2400 fps i load mine to 2200fps a bit less painful
chris

First time out doing load development with my 500J. Working my way up with my load development without a lead sled or a sissy pad on a sitting bench: 6 shots 570g TSX at 2300, 6 shots 570g TSX at 2410 final 3 shots 570g TSX at 2550 fps. No lead sled, no sissy pad, my shoulder felt like it had been pounded by a 5 lb meet tenderizer ...

Targets: 3 shot group 570g TSX 2300 fps



Target 3 shot group 570g TSX 2410 fps



The bruise day 1 (it got much more colorful the next two days)



Here's my "Baby" my 500 Jeff. I treat here with more respect and now she's my favorite rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
500 Jeffery vs 505 Gibbs
Any real advantages of one over the other?

Nope, functionally the exact same. I think it is just a matter of which one someone likes better.

Chuck375, my .505 load development from the bench went about the same as yours. I even had a headache for a couple days. No I use a standing bench and roll with it and have not had any headaches since.

Very nice Groups chuck375
So you did get 2550 fps with the long 570 grain barnes bullet.. was it a near max load you Think?
I have load my .460 wby to 2500fps with 550 grains woodleigh´s I know it kicks alot.. I can feel your shoudler

Could that be just a "little" to much of a good thing???

Yes, those are great groups, Chuck.

what a nice rifle to have.

Your pictures probably give you the right to wear a Limbsaver shoulder pad. Though I've noticed that about two weeks after a 'brusing session' at the beginning of a shooting season that the bruises don't recur in the same way.

As mentioned in the beginning of this thread, the 500 Jeffrey is probably good for about 8500 ftlbs., give or take 500 in any particular modern bolt action. See again the RealGuns articles on the 500Jeffrey.
(Google "Real Guns 500 Jeffrey"
www.realguns.com/archives/156.htm‎
www.realguns.com/archives/157.htm‎)

Now to be a flatshooting, all around rifle, Chuck's rifle could try 450 grains at 2900fps. I'm just not sure that I want to use such a thing for impala and hartebeest. It's why some of us on this thread mentioned the 500 AccRel Nyati, a 7000 ftlb .510" design. I'm happy with 450 grain GSC at 2600 fps.

Chuck that is a nasty bruise!

I found an unbelievable deal on a custom shop CZ .505 so that's what I have. It will be enough I'm sure ($900 at cabelas library). It was unfired as well. I had to buy it. I still can't stop giggling

I just sold a .500 Jeffery and will ship it out Friday. If was a .505 Gibbs I would have kept it. I just think the bigger Gibbs case looks better AND it is truly English.
Just my opinion.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by viperidae:

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
500 Jeffery vs 505 Gibbs
Any real advantages of one over the other?

Nope, functionally the exact same. I think it is just a matter of which one someone likes better.

Chuck375, my .505 load development from the bench went about the same as yours. I even had a headache for a couple days. No I use a standing bench and roll with it and have not had any headaches since.

I bought a lead sled for load development and initial sighting in. I haven't used it in awhile, but it's a shoulder saver. With 25 lbs on it the 500 Jeffery lifts it right off of the bench lol. It's nice to shoot offhand though.

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
Very nice Groups chuck375
So you did get 2550 fps with the long 570 grain barnes bullet.. was it a near max load you Think?
I have load my .460 wby to 2500fps with 550 grains woodleigh´s I know it kicks alot.. I can feel your shoudler

The CZ has a long throat so I seated my bullets to 3.63" OAL. I think if I went to IMR 4350 I could've gotten another 100 fps out of her, but the recoil just seemed to get exponentially worse over 2300 fps for every additional 100 fps. I had probably just reached my recoil tolerance. Not much you can't kill with a 570g bullet at 2300 fps ... 103g H4895 gets me there and I can shoot it comfortably.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
Very nice Groups chuck375
So you did get 2550 fps with the long 570 grain barnes bullet.. was it a near max load you Think?
I have load my .460 wby to 2500fps with 550 grains woodleigh´s I know it kicks alot.. I can feel your shoudler

The CZ has a long throat so I seated my bullets to 3.63" OAL. I think if I went to IMR 4350 I could've gotten another 100 fps out of her, but the recoil just seemed to get exponentially worse over 2300 fps for every additional 100 fps. I had probably just reached my recoil tolerance. Not much you can't kill with a 570g bullet at 2300 fps ... 103g H4895 gets me there and I can shoot it comfortably.

You've just given the rationale for the 500 AR Nyati.
Just about anything can be hunted with the large array of bullets in .510" (from 386 gn raptor CEB up to 600 grainers)
and at the 6000-7000 ftlb. level of energy.
Only at 350-400 yards does one need to think about dropping down to a 416 or 338 with higher BC bullets at 2800+fps.

I have a Heym I ordered thru New Guy a few years ago....500 Jeff. Also have a matching 404 Jeff. My 500 is target rifle accurate (as is my 404) and functions as fast as I want to work the bolt. Full size Mauser action. Awesome firearm.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I just think the bigger Gibbs case looks better AND it is truly English.

I can tell you that those big bores will come back to bite you as you age, Like 450 said "too much of a good thing" Living out your golden years with bursitas in the neck and shoulders isn't funny at all, and guess what evey big bore shooter I have known suffered the ills of their choice..I have mostly shot the 40 calibers and I suffer some from that, but very minor compared to the really big boys like Elmer Keith..

The worst part of all this is I doubt that any honest man can say the 500s or 600s kill better than a 404 or 416, a lot of "knockdown" is in the mind of the beholder, even among the experts, or so it seems to me.

.Only an Expert should assemble a 500 Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
First time out doing load development with my 500J. Working my way up with my load development without a lead sled or a sissy pad on a sitting bench: 6 shots 570g TSX at 2300, 6 shots 570g TSX at 2410 final 3 shots 570g TSX at 2550 fps. No lead sled, no sissy pad, my shoulder felt like it had been pounded by a 5 lb meet tenderizer ...

Targets: 3 shot group 570g TSX 2300 fps



Target 3 shot group 570g TSX 2410 fps



The bruise day 1 (it got much more colorful the next two days)



Here's my "Baby" my 500 Jeff. I treat here with more respect and now she's my favorite rifle.

I shoot from a standing bench when I want to sight in my 505 Gibbs. I can shoot 60 in a day that way (and I have) and I don't get bruised, just a bit of a headache.

338 user take a look at my au buf culling machine
http://s181.photobucket.com/us....jpg.html?sort=3&o=0