Robgunbuilder stated in another thread that the 50 Beowulf would NOT be loaded with rifle primers and rifle powder. Here is his exact quote:

quote:

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Frankly, anything that headspaces on it's rim ala the .50 Beowulf is a pretty poor design IMHO. The .50 Beowulf requires a taper crimped cartridge to function and with just a little too much pressure while reloading, you can induce variable headspace. No big deal at 28 Kpsi ( limited by the LARGE PISTOL PRIMERS IT REQUIRES). A very big deal at 55 KPSI-Rob

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Well today at the range the gentleman who owns the CZ527 chambered in 50 Beowulf should up to do some load development. He was loading with LARGE RIFLE PRIMERS and Rel15. He loads up one with 53 gr of Rel15 and touches it off. Talk about a strangely LOUD boom and a cloud of smoke! Luckily no one was seriously injured. The shooter was singed, but otherwise OK. The rifle on the other hand looks like someone took a torch to the bolt face!! I think anyone that may be interested could get a slightly used CZ527 50 Beowulf cheap!

Axel

Axel- Duh! when has Robgunbuilder been wrong? Maybe not always correct, but never totally wrong! I've followed his work MANY TIMES and he has always answered my dumb questions via E-mail with great respect. This guy has one heck of alot of real world experience and its been demonstrated time and time again. I'm a fan and maybe someday a friend. He gave you some good advice ane he was right again

Compulsive liars shouldn't argue from the confines of the same head.

Old saying

Karl.

Karl- I don,t know what your trying to say, but I want to assure you I,m not Axel indusguise. I hate that jerk.

470nitro, who are you? Not too long ago you said you were an engineer named SS. The obvious conclusion is you are Todd E. Now you say you are a lawyer, is you name still Scott Sweet aka Todd E? You say you hate me and I am a jerk, what did I ever do to you? Your posts are always negative and attacking someone. Again the obvious conclusion is that you ARE posting under this assumed named to protect your TRUE posting identity. So who are you??

My name is Axel Dempel, WHAT IS YOURS?

quote:

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470nitro
New Member
Member # 11503

posted 06-01-2003 22:12
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Axel- I hear your gonna weld two SMLE's together to build a AXELized version of a Fuching double! Bet it blows your head off! Sie sind an asel!-SS
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Posts: 18 | From: michigan | Registered: Feb 2003

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Everyone you will notice the -SS signature in 470nitro's post above. If he is Scott Sweet perhaps he will tell us were he is!

Axel

[ 06-15-2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Axel ]

Can someone send in a psychiatrist please?

Axel, I want to assure you I'm not Scott Sweet/ToddE. My name is Symund James Sayez and I'm a patent attorney with a mechanical engineering background.I live and work in Dearborn. I have a BS degree from MIT and I've also studied at the Universitat of Dusseldorf. I am very interested in a Big Bore cartridge I've designed on the 470NE case and really like the idea of a Belted version i.e the 600 Overkill and 458 Hubel express.
I've read your posts and if anyone has acted like a jerk it's you.I am a lawyer so if I act like a shark it's just my training. I'll be nicer in the future.

470nitro, I see. So you are a German national or a Naturalized US citizen. BTW, I have never met an aggressive patent attorney before, interesting. What wildcat are you planning on the 470 NE. I cannot imagine any big bore "wildcat" on that cartridge since almost every big bore caliber in existence has already been built with that case! You do realize don't you that the 470 NE case IS IN FACT THE 500 black powder case of the 19th century! The 360 NE No2 on up to the 500 NE all use this same case!

Axel

Sybil only requires one straight jacket.

AXEL-I see you have a new friend in 470 Nitro. What did you do to him to make him like you so much? Too Bad about your friends gun. I know Bill Alexander and while he's a good guy and makes a good product, I have had my doubts about the .50 Beowulf for some time. Headspacing a big round on the case mouth is simply asking for trouble.Particularily in a gun like the AR-15 with all it's stacked tolerances. I always thought he used pistol primers instead of LRP's because the AR-15 hammer springs didn't have enough poop and the pressures were intentionally kept to 38Kpsi or so.About 10 years ago I designed a cartridge similar to the .458 Socom and actually got it to work on a AR-15 with a similarly rebatted case head. At least this thing headspaced on a shoulder. Unfortunately the accuracy wasn't very good and I gave up the whole idea.-Rob

Axel's favorite gun.

Pecos

I believe that thing shoots long
strings of BS!

Let's play a game!

Symund Sayez: "Go shoot yourself in the head!"

[ 06-16-2003, 15:12: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nick - very funny.

It is really interesting watch a schizophrenic carry on a love-hate relationship with himself.

Nickudu, I noticed that about 470nitro's "real name" too! Funny there is no Symund James Sayez in the Michigan Bar Association's roster. Thought a patent attorney needed to be a member of the Bar to practice his profession. At least that is what the INTERNET search turned up. Don't know how accurate it is it though.

BTW, I am not 470nitro, but I think at least one of the responders to this thread knows who 470nitro is!!

Robgunbuilder, how well do you know Bill Alexander? Well enough that if I mentioned you to him he would give me a deal on a 50 Beowulf?

Axel

[ 06-16-2003, 19:44: Message edited by: Axel ]

Doubt he'd give you a deal! They seem to be getting top dollar for them though! I saw one here with a muzzel brake going for $830. I could make a brake like that for $2 that would be 50 times more effective. You seriously don't want to spend money on the Beowulf do you? It's kinda like the "Ricer( lowest known level of Car culture)" equivalent of Big Bores IMHO. You can't do anything with one other than try and impress the para-military types who infest the public gun ranges with their Ar-15's and AK-47 clones. Now if you mount the sights on the side of the gun, then you'll have the slickest"Homeboy" AR in existance. I told Bill about that idea and he didn't seem very impressed. This is exactly the stuff the Gun Control advocates want to see. It does more harm for our hobby than anything else. I never go to the public ranges anymore because of this stuff. Yuck-Rob

[ 06-16-2003, 23:13: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Robgunbuilder, actually no I am not interested in buying a 50 Beowulf. Primarily due to the events of last weekend. Actually, I am looking at buying a BAR. I am currently researching the asking price to see if it is inline or not. Also, so I can make the gentleman selling the rifle a fair counter offer. I have also located a Bren, but I like the looks of the BAR more and I understand the BAR is far more accurate. The only other military rifle I own is a FAL. I am a hunter first and foremost as these are only my "toys".

Axel

Axel- I've never really been interested in semi-autos.I've owned some AR-15's an FN-FAL and a G43 but sold em off years ago. IMHO they give the wrong impression to the public and in general don't make for elegant hunting weopons. In addition, I have far too many bad (real bad) memories of Semi-auto's during my tour of southeast asia. Big Bore Bolt actions are where it's at for me right now!-Rob

Robgunbuilder, was your FAL an original FN? You do realize that the FAL is selective fire, not only semi-auto? My FAL is of Isreali origin. It is not that accurate, but on full auto bursts it is a lot of fun, until the barrel gets too hot to hold onto the forearm any longer! That takes about 60 rounds in a coule minutes.

The BAR I am looking at is a M1918A2 and is full auto only! It does have fast and slow full auto though. I agree with you that the semi-auto wannabe guns are a detriment to the gun owners of the world, but I do not believe this applies to the true military spec weapons.

Axel

Karl, with regard to the antis. Currently the semi-auto is considered an "assault rifle". This is a scary thing indeed! However, even more frightening is the horrible bolt action! The bolt action is after all a "SNIPER RIFLE"!!! We have all seen the sniper movies, haven't we. Everyone knows a sniper is a cold blooded killer who is hard to catch. Just look at what happened in Washington DC area! "Sniper rifles" are worse even than "assault rifles" are!

At least that is how I understand the anti-gun people in this part of the United States.

Axel

You can divide anti gun into three basic groups:

1) The genuine anti. They are the driving force and guns is only one part of the agenda. They are very hard line people who also very politically aware.

2) The bunny hugger. Makes up the numbers for the genuine anti. He/she is usually unaware that the genuine anti is his/her enemy on issues other than guns. Many gun owners also make up the numbers for the genuine anti when it comes to issues other than guns.

3) The average non gun owner. Purely a spectator who does not alter his/her vote one way or the other on the gun issue.

Robs comments on autos which is also echoed by many other gun owners across the world is a clear demonstration that the genine antis are on target.

I am an Anarchist. That is, I believe we are better off with no gov't. With the exception of maybe 3 or 4 people on this forum everyone is against my position and the reason is that they believe society needs gov't control. In other words the genuine anti has many followers.

Mike

[ 06-19-2003, 04:39: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Karl/Mike375- First of all my dislike of semi and full autos is my own prejudice and No one has brain washed me and of that you can be certain. I have used both EXTENSIVELY during Vietnam! In my personal opinion, the proliferation of semi-auto assualt rifles AKs, AR-15's, Mac-10's etc which are bought mostly by folks with the idea that with maximal firepower on their side, that somehow they can hit something(usually human), has done more damage to this hobby than anything else. Every Damn time some gang banger blazes away at the local seven-eleven with a AK, the anti- gun crowd gets up on its high horse and loudly extols the need for more gun control. You know I never read about one of them carrying a 505 Gibbs into battle! Furthermore,The gun ranges here ( I'm a NRA instructor by the way) are loaded every weekend with MORONS with semi-autos pretending to be stars in a Rambo movie. They have absolutely no training, discipline,firearms experience or basic common sense. Most don't even appear to be US citizens for that matter!Axel- How can you own a full auto BAR( You said you're a german citizen)? That image makes me want to puke and consequently I'm not into these things at all. If you like them thats fine with me, but please don't argue that in the eyes of the public that they are not a problem because they are. The gun manufacturers who sell military sniper rifle knock-off's to the same clowns are fanning the flames too. The average non-Gun owner takes one look and poof it doesn't take much to convince them that these guns are designed to kill people only ( and alot of them in a properly messy military manner). Couple this with the media and movie industries agenda to confisgate all guns in private hands and we are setting ourselves up for a total loss of our right to own guns. States like California are in fact run by anti-gunners and it's easy to enact laws in California that trample the rights of it's minority gun-owning citizens, that's a fact! The proliferation of Military semi-autos is the rosetta stone of Gun confisgation in this country. I support the NRA's position on Assualt Rifles, semi-auto's etc. with plenty of contributions, but I'm also not blind to political reality. I want nothing to do with para-military stuff myself. That's just my opinion and I respect yours, please respect mine. -Rob

Originally posted by robgunbuilder
"Karl/Mike375- In my personal opinion, the proliferation of semi-auto assualt rifles AKs, AR-15's, Mac-10's etc which are bought mostly by folks with the idea that with maximal firepower on their side, that somehow they can hit something(usually human), has done more damage to this hobby than anything else.
Every Damn time some gang banger blazes away at the local seven-eleven with a AK, the anti- gun crowd gets up on its high horse and loudly extols the need for more gun control"

I take it your view is then that the either

a) less gang killings will occur if these firearms are removed from the law abiding public.

Or b) Giving into pressure from antis on this one will make gun rights more solid against them for the other types under attack.

Rob: "You know I never read about one of them carrying a 505 Gibbs into battle!"

We could add 50BMG's, anti tank rifles banned in your country in 1968 also.
I guess we could give antis handguns and high capacity shotguns next since they cause more public nuisance than anything else
What is the NRA's view on these anyway?

Rob:"The gun manufacturers who sell military sniper rifle knock-off's to the same clowns are fanning the flames too. The average non-Gun owner takes one look and poof it doesn't take much to convince them that these guns are designed to kill people only ( and alot of them in a properly messy military manner)"

So are current and ex-military boltactions also designed for killing, despite a secondary sporting purpose.
So are 'combat or assault shotguns', and the great majority of handguns as above.

Rob:"Couple this with the media and movie industries agenda to confisgate all guns in private hands and we are setting ourselves up for a total loss of our right to own guns"

The public doesn't care unless it has been told to care and the government only cares about what gets them votes.

The Antis are the driving force.
Like the handful of hardcore anti-abortionists representing a fraction of the population, who made those laws through sheer legal and illegal bullying of the officials.

And people don't seem to realise the gun anti is not after making the streets safer or public health, despite his claims this is the true motivation.

If he was you indeed might have a chance of reasoning with him or even throwing him scraps.

He is after the banning of all firearms.
Which means he will take whatever scraps you throw them-give them one type and then they move on to the next type. australia, Britain, canada, california, new york etc.

You can keep turning your back and laughing or blaming countries and your own US states as weaklings until there are only handful left.

And then wonder why it happened when every group sold out the last "publicly ugly weapon" group above them for 'public safety'.

Rob :"That's just my opinion and I respect yours, please respect mine"

Anyone reading this will note my above arguments are identical to those we use against antis.

Word for Word.



Karl.

[ 06-19-2003, 16:08: Message edited by: Karl ]

That's just my opinion and I respect yours, please respect mine. -Rob

Even if you are wrong!!!! Do you respect my opinions if you think they are wrong? Do you have no conviction.?

You are an anti's dream come true, especially the 505 Gibbs part of your posting and the NRA support.

It would be a pleasant suprise to find out that you are an anti, rather that a stupid gun owner but I fear the latter is the case.

The NRA is no different to the Sporting Shooters's Association of Australia (SSAA). The NRA and SSAA run an official position while at the same time assuming that there is non official activity. The antis do the same.

How sad that your convictions on gun ownership are so fucking poor that you are reduced to supporting the NRA line. The NRA was expecting more of you!!!

It is just amazing how many American gun owners want to repeat Australia. The Robgunbuilders were here and the only difference was the fucking accent.

Mike

[ 06-19-2003, 18:54: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Karl,

It is just amazing how the antis have the Robgunbuilders all wrapped up.

Oh!! for the hallowed ground of 505s and 375s

Does he not realise that to an anti the 505, 375 and 7.62 X 39 are like the sight of rags on a woman.

Does he not realise that the 505s, 470 Mbogos, 600 OKs are not necessary.

One can only hope that he is an anti and not a gun owner.....but I fear..

Mike

Guys, give it a break.

500grains

We fought against the "Robgunbuilders" down here and unfortunately their numbers are big.

In 1988 and 1996 I took 12 months and 8 months respectively out of my business in the gun law fight and it could have been 2 months and 1 month if not for the antis in our own camp.

Those who would suggest gun control should just go and join the other side and it will be easier for everyone....both on the pro gun side....and the anti gun side.

Personally, after having met a few "genuine antis" (including American ones out here in 1996) I have far more repsect for them than many gun owners. At least the "genuine antis" know what they are about.

And don't give me this shit "Guys, give it a break."

This man is supporting the antis totally. We have already been through it and as far as I am concerned.......

Mike

[ 06-19-2003, 19:47: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

500grains

Another thing.

You should copy and keep this thread and later on you might disagree with "Guys, give it a break".

Mike

Mike375 & Karl, I understand your points and agree 100%. It is too bad Americans in general are so inept at politics!! They truly are, but are unable to understand or admit it!

Robgunbuilder, it is easy for an Ameican citizen to legally own full auto weapons. Admittedly there is a lot of paperwork and some additional expense, but it is easy. My wife buys all the guns in the US. She is a citizen. Technically speaking I shoot her guns. So was your FAL a real FAL or a civilian semi-auto clone? Mike and Karl are right too, BTW!!!

Axel

Mike, I appreciate and thank you for your efforts in support of gun rights.

As I read what Rob said, he is not favoring banning any type of firearm. He is simply saying that the average non-gun owner does not respond well to the AK47 crowd, and he is right about that. But recognizing what non-gun owners have an emotional reaction to and supporting firearms bans are two different things, and I do not think it is fair to accuse Rob of being anti based on the posts above.

It is also important to keep in mind the purpose of the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution. It was put in place for the purpose of providing citizens a means to rebel against an oppressive government. It has nothing to do with hunting, target shooting or anything else. There are few judicial decisions dealing with the 2nd amendment, but if you look to historical documents regarding the original intent of the 2nd amendment, you will see that it is clearly meant to protect the right of the average citizen to own infantry-type weapons. In 1776, that was a .75 caliber musket. Today it is an AK47 or M16. Our government is not respecting that right, but there it is.

500grains

If you read my postings my fear is that Rob is not an anti but a gun owner.

Get the difference??

But he needs to make up his mind which side he is on.

The original proposals for our licence criteria would have fucked the big bores, owning more than one rifle in the same or similar calibres and etc. In other words there would have been a justification/calibre criteria and most shooters could not have satisfied the criteria for most of their guns.

This was a preferred gov't choice because it would have ended gun ownership as we know it and not required compensation as was the case of "banned" semi autos.

Fortunately that was fixed and currently it is just "centrefire." My opinion is that this will change and once again SCI will be our enemy.

I know of what I say because I both formed and led the lobby group that concentrated on being able to use a 500 J etc. for rabbits. In fact that lobbying finished with Firearms Registry phoning me and saying "what do you want".

We were able to win the big bore issue on community safety. Our basic proposal was that a 6 shot Sako 223 was a much more deadly massacre weapon than a 500 J and for all of the obvious reasons. Of course while this is going on we have SCI sounding off with shit like "we only use these big bores for big game and range practice". Real English sounding stuff straight from the H&H brochure. In addition they would put forward views of disgust that someone would want to actually own the SKS etc.

Most gun owners seem to forget that the military style semi auto is our first line of defence. Unfortunately we in Australia have lost that line of defence.

The reason I react so much to a Robgunbuilder is because we had to fight against the ideas he put forward.

Mike

Mike375- Or should I say FUCK HEAD! Youre too damn stupid to read the writting on the wall and it's assholes like you and AXEL that will cost all of us our guns. You lost in OZ because you rely on the same stupid tactics your trying to use on me. Gee- If I yell at you you'll just give in. Well they fucked you didn't they!
Take your semi-autos and Full autos and shove them up your ass! I don't give a shit what you think! Frankly, I've gotten sick to death of you! Do us both a favor and don't ever again respond to any of my posts and I'll do the same for you.
Axel- It frankly scares me to think that by proxy a sychopathic liar like you has access to full auto weopons in my country -Rob

Robgunbuilder, I do not know why you just attacked me. What is your problem anyway? I have not been a psychopathic liar! I have told some sarcastic tongue and cheek obvious BS stories once or maybe twice. Many people have done that! So again, was you FAL a REAL FAL meaning FULL AUTO, or just a semi-auto wannabe rifle i.e. NOT A REAL FAL?

I think we can sum up your argument with this statement. My guns are OK because they are for hunting. Semi auto are EVIL because, well because they are!! That may not be the message you intend to send, but it is how most everyone gun owner or not receives it! If you do not mean to send this message out I suggest you simply say that you completely support the right of all Americans to own firearms semi or full auto, as well as, "hunting" type rifles. That said you simply do not have a desire to own any semi or full auto weapons yourself! Do you see the difference between these two statements, your original and mine?

Mike375, I think that this discussion fits better somewhere else. Besides that, you seem to have upset Robgunbuilder and 500grains! At least Rob is calling some names now, which to me is bad form!

Axel

Mike375- Any Part of FUCK YOU you don't quite understand? Dumb ASS?
Axel- You've always been an asshole and always will be! You know that's true too! So does everone else on this Site.
By the way I am quite sure that AXEL and Mike 375 are one and the same.-Rob

[ 06-20-2003, 07:08: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Robgunbuilder

It sure did not too much to knock you over.

Settle down boy and it will all come together for you.

Mike

Mike375-Calling me an anti-gunner REALLY PISSED ME OFF!ASSHOLE! I can do a little more "unmasking" if you like? Don't Fuck with me or YOU will be sorry!People whisper things to me on E-mail. Know what I mean?
Axel- Perhaps your memory is a bit clouded, but you didn't exactly emerge from our last Tete-e- tee. unscarred.Disembowled pretty much covers it! I'm always willing to " engage" are you? Sit down, take a deep breath and think about it! I have more info on you than you think I do! I have "resources" way beyond what you think I have and I'm very willing to use them. just ask your old friend Scott. As I told you, this is a final message to the"Wise". END of COMMUNICATION " with you two dipshits. Your both Dismissed! If this feels harsh, you've not seen anything yet! Oh Yes.Axel the "why are you attacking me" line is pretty old. Do you think we dont recognize the old AXEL cadence, Come on, get real!-Rob

[ 06-20-2003, 09:55: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]