we haven't heard from bpbb about this lately maybe he found out how much recoil he was shooting and fainted

Karl---8 of us would have to hitch up to that
80 pounder like a team of horses.I sure would
like to find someone who has chrono'd a two
bore and a four bore..Real curious to see how
fast 3500 gr round ball really goes, as my formula
still may have it too high at 1400 fps.
We have a figure for BP in formula , but I suspect that as bores get larger than an inch,
even the BP figure should drop some.The evolution
of gases drops off real fast in comparison to
progressive smokeless powders.There is the possibility that 550 gr of blackpowder and a 3500
gr ball, that it is only doing 9-1100 fps.Ed.

no i have been working and keeping busy getting every thing ready for my up coming elephant hunt in april

Mickey,
The load data is the tricky one for him.

I don't think dad's money can buy a new set of physical laws to get him out of this one.

Karl.

Ed,
I agree about your estimates of load data/velocity sound more realistic.
I remember reading a story of an old boy needing 800 grains of 'blasting black'(whatever that was back then) to get over 1400fps with the 2 bore ball.I'll try and find it again.

On the subject of chronying, I've been a hairs breadth from getting a 2 bore since I started reserching it years ago,just to see once and for all what it can do.

There are so many reports on them that don't hold water or even do the 2 bore justice once you start digging.

The picture the brits love of their mighty 2 guage being fired turns out to be a mere 5 oz load. might as well be a 4 bore then.

Claims of people firing 2 bores etc at recoil that can "kill a normal man but they have learnt to handle it over time".
How did they toughen up thier heads and brain to trauma that would have killed them a year ago? All the boxers in the world would love to know.

The 3 bore firing a 2700 grain conical or something over on the TMH site...is with a mere 8 bore powder load.

And then the juvenile on this thread.

I am beginning to honestly think no one has fired a full power 2 bore load since Samuel Baker and Gibbs went into retirement.

Karl.

Karl

According to Holland & Holland Baker's 2-Bore was actually a 4-Bore. I guess it sounded better to say he shot a rifle no one else could.

[ 07-15-2003, 06:50: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

Karl, you are right on the money.

I think it was Bell that said the advantage of the 2 bore was that if you missed, you would be knocked out while the elephant kicked and gored you to death. Or, while the lion ate you.

My original choice of a 375 H&H came about when
some guy built a 4 bore, shot a buffalo with it, and it still went 60 yards before dieing.

If they can do that, then I want a BMG for a dangerous game rifle, or, in reality, a 458 Lott, mainly because Ray has said the 500 grain bullets stop lions, and, if I ever make it to Africa, that will be a big deal.

I do NOT want to go up to St. Peter and have to say I was eaten by a lion, while taking pictures, because I couldn't shoot, and had a light rifle.

s

Oh no, not Sam baker too...that's another one off the list.

Soc an advantage might be had with the bore rifles and explosive projectiles.As you would probably know 20mm is what the military considers the minimum size for useful payloads.
It's something that no one is going to be able to verify these days.

Karl.

Karl--I suspect that BPBB and many others
believed the numbers from Baker and all the old
big game writers, in what a 2bore or 4bore would do.But when you think of it if 2 bore got a 3500
grain ball only 1000 fps with a 25 lb rifle,
it will still recoil 300 ft lbs.Well thats hard enough that anyone shooting one, with a relatively light 25 lb rifle, thinks it is twice that.And the writers and myths encourage that
twice as bad kick and effects..
Anyone who's shot one at a 1000 cfs and can see to
post here ain't a wallflower.Enthusiastic with
the figures maybe, as they got half looped from
recoil and there math skills went away.Ed.

Hubel:

I strongly suspect the 2 and 4 bores are really not at home in shooting animals. I suspect they would be more effective against lined up troops, or ships, where penetration is king.

The old British ship cannon didn't develop great velocity, but the bullet mass would end up with a 32 pound cannon ball going length wise on a Spainish Ship of the line, with incredible damage.

I suspect the great advantage of a 2 bore would be in being able to lengthwise shoot an elephant, with a 4 inch wound channel, and the bullet keep right on going. In other words, any angle could provide a killing shot, since the ball would be so hard to deviate from target line, due to mass.

quote:

---

Soc an advantage might be had with the bore rifles and explosive projectiles.As you would probably know 20mm is what the military considers the minimum size for useful payloads.
It's something that no one is going to be able to verify these days.

---

We have it on good authority that GW Bush is trying to work out this test. He's trying to get Mugabe to verify the effect of 20 mm, at close range.

My personal choice is the 20mm or 40 mm cannons we used in C-47's. I believe they are called Vulcans, with between 2000-6000 round per minute fire rates, they can take out a football field in the blink of an eye. Puff the Magic Dragon comes to mind...
s

[ 07-18-2003, 03:29: Message edited by: Socrates ]