Sounds like the two of you don' like each othr for sure. At any rate welcome to the board.

For the record, I feel cartridges like the 300 RUM and the 30-378 make good target guns, but for hunting they offer little over the 30-06 in practical situations. I would (and continually do argue) the next step up from the 30-06 is the 338 win mag. With the 338 you get virtually the same flash, bang, kick as a 300 winnie but a serious extra dose of KO power (qualitative measurement, bad scientist, no dinner) Having first hand seeing the difference between 300 Wby and 340 Wby, I am amazed at how quickly animals fall to the larger diameter bullet. On meat hunts, the 375 H&H is my choice, I have seen few animals withstand a 300 gr TSX or partition without falling right there, and at 2500 fps or so meat damage is minimized compared to the 3000 fps + cartridges.

It seems for years that gun writers and enthusiasts have tried to find a way to predict bullet performance on game. The industry standard, ft lbs of energy, has continually come up short. Folks with considerably more hunting experience than I have documented bullet weights, velocities, and bullet construction trying to come up with a method of predicting killing ability on various game. Enter Taylor's KO formula. Although not perfect in predicting killing power (or in his case stopping power, which can be important on dangerous game), his formula got us closer than anything before it. We are still grasping at straws, but experience teaches this:

Heavy thick skinned animals from elephant down to elk (and heavy boar) like bigger bullets at 2150 fps or greater. Heavy sectional density combined with bullet weight makes for the most reliable kills. Heavy will be 300gr or more, 500 gr is preferred.

Thinned skin dangerous game need heavy bullets (though not quite as heavy as the thick skinned brutes) traveling at 2250 fps or greater (although some will argue, and wisely so, that 2400 fps is highly desirable) 300-400 gr bullets are typical.

Thinned skin non dangerous game generally can be taken with most bullets, but it seems that bullets of 130 gr or more or most effective. Animals with weaker nervous systems can be taken more effectively with higher velocities. I think here lays the surge in popularity of medium bore magnum cartridges. Most folks hunt deer, antelope, and black bear, on these animals, 3000 fps velocities are spectacular killers. After shooting a deer with a 300 RUM a euphoria ensues, a sense of invincibility with the hammer of Thor in your hands. For these animals, medium bore magnums are just plain awesome.

Now here is the rub, it seems that a disproportionate number of folks with these magnums, fresh from the success of their thin skinned hunts, now look at their load charts and energy figures and notice, "Hey my super wiz bang ammo ha as much energy as a 416 remington, if it can take an elephant, so can my magnum". In africa through the 50's and 60's, so many body bags were filled on dangerous game hunts that the African governments declared a minimum cartridge for the hunting of dangerous game.

Those that make a living hunting dangerous game, did so because they followed the advise and lessons learned from those before them. Those that didn't aren't here to tell the tale. Those that devote their lives to hunting big and nasty things, usually get irate about the super magnums being touted as the next dangerous game rifle, nobody wants to go back to the days when 1 in 10 never came back.

But anyways, enjoy the board, you will here some good things, some BS, but most folks are decent.

John

BBBH, well written. Makes a lot of sense.
I look at a higher velocity counter part
(30-06 to a 300 RUM) as a longer range
version of the given cartridge.

Nothing more.

Case in point, here is Dave Estergaard
shooting his 470 Mbogo, click on
aimed rapid fire, a .30 of any magnitude will
not blow up a pail with 5 gallons of water.

My 300 WSM with 180 Accubonds simply spun
a milk jug and caused a big leak. I was very
dissapointed as I added red food coloring for
a dramatic effect.

So i can be clear, are you saying a 30 cal cannot blow up a 5gal "steel" pail full of water? or even a milk jug?
i'm not trying to start anything, lord knows thats how i ended up on this forum, but here's a shot i made last week at 1200yds on a 5gal culligan water jug, shot with a 300RUM and 208 A-MAX, MV,3220fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnX8vBBJ-Oo

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
BBBH, well written. Makes a lot of sense.
I look at a higher velocity counter part
(30-06 to a 300 RUM) as a longer range
version of the given cartridge.

Nothing more.

Case in point, here is Dave Estergaard
shooting his 470 Mbogo, click on
aimed rapid fire, a .30 of any magnitude will
not blow up a pail with 5 gallons of water.

My 300 WSM with 180 Accubonds simply spun
a milk jug and caused a big leak. I was very
dissapointed as I added red food coloring for
a dramatic effect.

Dave did a lot of great work with the 470 MBogo, If'n my next big hole rifle isn't a 500, it will probably be a 470 Mbogo.

John

quote:

Originally posted by MT300RUM:
So i can be clear, are you saying a 30 cal cannot blow up a 5gal "steel" pail full of water? or even a milk jug?
i'm not trying to start anything, lord knows thats how i ended up on this forum, but here's a shot i made last week at 1200yds on a 5gal culligan water jug, shot with a 300RUM and 208 A-MAX, MV,3220fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnX8vBBJ-Oo

/
What is the velocity of the 300 Rum load in the vid @ 1200 yards ..????

quote:

Originally posted by MT300RUM:
So i can be clear, are you saying a 30 cal cannot blow up a 5gal "steel" pail full of water? or even a milk jug?
i'm not trying to start anything, lord knows thats how i ended up on this forum, but here's a shot i made last week at 1200yds on a 5gal culligan water jug, shot with a 300RUM and 208 A-MAX, MV,3220fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnX8vBBJ-Oo

Well, not the first time that I've told myself to investigate further.
I just want to try something similar with a pail of water like Dave used.
(I don't have access to a 300 RUM but a buddy has a 338 RUM.)
The bigger opening will really show how much energy transfer the bullet really has.
I believe, just a theory for now, that a water jug will cause a funnel effect.

By no means am I an expert, my big gun is a 378. Which is tiny compared to others here.

I went and put myself into it though and will accept what I see.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

Dave did a lot of great work with the 470 MBogo, If'n my next big hole rifle isn't a 500, it will probably be a 470 Mbogo.

John

I had the pleasure of meeting Dave and Chris. Great guys, all of that knowledge and not an ounce of arrogance between them.
Heck, they wouldn't even let me pay for breakfast.

quote:

Now here is the rub, it seems that a disproportionate number of folks with these magnums, fresh from the success of their thin skinned hunts, now look at their load charts and energy figures and notice, "Hey my super wiz bang ammo ha as much energy as a 416 remington, if it can take an elephant, so can my magnum". In africa through the 50's and 60's, so many body bags were filled on dangerous game hunts that the African governments declared a minimum cartridge for the hunting of dangerous game.

That's the truth! I have a 300RUM and a 375H&H. The 300RUM is a reliable 400 yard elk cartridge. Would I take it for DG? No more than I would take a 223 for elk. If a 223 was the only gun I had and I really needed to kill an elk, I may. Heck I have heard of people shooting elk with a 22 Hornet (don't ask). So you could shoot DG with a 300RUM (again, lots of buff and Ele have fallen to 7X57) but you're whistling in the wind if you think a high velocity small caliber rifle is the way to go on DG. Energy does not equal killing power. Never has, never will.

How many elephant did WDM Bell kill with 7 X 57 (275 Rigby), 6.5 X 54, and .303 British? 1511?
Point is, bullet capability, cartridge capability, hunter capability and shot placement opportunity are four very different things.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by MT300RUM:
So i can be clear, are you saying a 30 cal cannot blow up a 5gal "steel" pail full of water? or even a milk jug?
i'm not trying to start anything, lord knows thats how i ended up on this forum, but here's a shot i made last week at 1200yds on a 5gal culligan water jug, shot with a 300RUM and 208 A-MAX, MV,3220fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnX8vBBJ-Oo

Well, not the first time that I've told myself to investigate further.
I just want to try something similar with a pail of water like Dave used.
(I don't have access to a 300 RUM but a buddy has a 338 RUM.)
The bigger opening will really show how much energy transfer the bullet really has.
I believe, just a theory for now, that a water jug will cause a funnel effect.

By no means am I an expert, my big gun is a 378. Which is tiny compared to others here.

I went and put myself into it though and will accept what I see.

.
.
.
. Can you vid the shoot . and vid shooting it with your 378 . Especially if you have some 300 gr factory loads or equivalent ..

quote:

Originally posted by SDS:
How many elephant did WDM Bell kill with 7 X 57 (275 Rigby), 6.5 X 54, and .303 British? 1511?
Point is, bullet capability, cartridge capability, hunter capability and shot placement opportunity are four very different things.

More importantly, how many did he fail to kill, how many chased him how many close calls did he have, these are things seldom bragged about in books and magazines. I might stand a chance with Mariah Carey, but I wouldn't bet my life on it (my wife is meaner than a stampede of ill tempered cape buffalo).

John

/
What is the velocity of the 300 Rum load in the vid @ 1200 yards ..????[/QUOTE]

The MV was 3220 fps, and enrgy was 4801 ft lbs and the velocity at 1200yds was 1815 fps and enrgy was 1522 ft lbs, with a 208gr A-MAX with a true B.C of 0.6443,

I would like to clear the air Before people start to think i'm trying to compare a 300RUM, to a D.G cartridge, i have never thought the RUM was a D.G cartridge, and would never say the RUM was even close to having the stoping power for D.G, the largest animals i hunt are Elk and bear, and for that it has been great, could i do the same thing with a 300WM i'm sure i could, but i'm sure you guys understand that we all don't stop with what it takes to get the job done, most of my friends shoot 300WM and a couple of us shoot 300RUMs there's always a little friendly bannter and smack talk between the WM and RUM guys, is it over kill for a .30 cal maybe, but it works for me,

quote:

Originally posted by MT300RUM:
I would like to clear the air Before people start to think i'm trying to compare a 300RUM, to a D.G cartridge, i have never thought the RUM was a D.G cartridge, and would never say the RUM was even close to having the stoping power for D.G, the largest animals i hunt are Elk and bear, and for that it has been great, could i do the same thing with a 300WM i'm sure i could, but i'm sure you guys understand that we all don't stop with what it takes to get the job done, most of my friends shoot 300WM and a couple of us shoot 300RUMs there's always a little friendly bannter and smack talk between the WM and RUM guys, is it over kill for a .30 cal maybe, but it works for me,

I think everyone will agree that the 300 RUM fills its particular niche well. And I think you are well suited for the animals you hunt! Again, sometimes the best kill is overkill, properly placed, the 300 RUM will knock down any elk sized game and ring the shooters bell at the same time.

John

quote:

The MV was 3220 fps, and enrgy was 4801 ft lbs

300, can I ask what the load and barrel length were? 3220 is screaming with an over 200gn bullet. Just curious, I gave away my 300RUM years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:

quote:

The MV was 3220 fps, and enrgy was 4801 ft lbs

300, can I ask what the load and barrel length were? 3220 is screaming with an over 200gn bullet. Just curious, I gave away my 300RUM years ago.

The load is 93.3 gr of RETUMBO GM215M primer Nosler brass hornady 208 A-MAX seated 5 off,
the barrel is a 30" rock creek 1-10 twist 5R,

Like I said over on the "other forum", have at it, sir.

I don't see the need to make this any worse, you like small bore bottle necks, I like a little more meat coming out of the barrel.

I am at fault for my opinions, and I apologize.

You must understand that I see a lot of hunters every year who come into camp with their new "whiz bang super mag" and think that they are going to outbag everyone else, when most of the time they can't even shoot their rifles accurately enough to get them properly sighted in!

In that regard I am a tad wary when someone starts boasting about their .300 RUM, 30-378 or such, kinda hard to know another person very well through a few internet postings.

I have a passion for big bore cartridges, and I see a RUM rifle as a good opportunity to make a nifty .404 Jeffery!

Again, my apologies.

quote:

The load is 93.3 gr of RETUMBO GM215M primer Nosler brass hornady 208 A-MAX seated 5 off

300, Thanks! I'll file that one away if I get another down the road. That's a screamer.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by HogLeg458:
Like I said over on the "other forum", have at it, sir.

I don't see the need to make this any worse, you like small bore bottle necks, I like a little more meat coming out of the barrel.

I am at fault for my opinions, and I apologize.

You must understand that I see a lot of hunters every year who come into camp with their new "whiz bang super mag" and think that they are going to outbag everyone else, when most of the time they can't even shoot their rifles accurately enough to get them properly sighted in!

In that regard I am a tad wary when someone starts boasting about their .300 RUM, 30-378 or such, kinda hard to know another person very well through a few internet postings.

I have a passion for big bore cartridges, and I see a RUM rifle as a good opportunity to make a nifty .404 Jeffery!

Again, my apologies.

Well Hogleg let's just consider this water under the bridge, i was probably a little more fired up than i should have been, so for that i am sorry,
just so you don't think i'm a kid with a new wiz bang toy, ive been shooting the RUM since they came out in 1999, my first was a Sako 75 hunter and for some reason ive had a fondness for them ever since, and my new custom is strictly for long range, i wanted a RUM for long range that i could spot my own shots with, thus the 18.5 lb, with a tank brake..