I purchased a .375 Ruger several months ago and I'm finally working up loads. I was out shooting today with the chronograph testing velocity and accuracy of my loads. So here's the problem (or is it?): My .375 thinks it's a varmint rifle with 300 grain TSX at 2475fps. However as I step up the velocity the accuracy goes down. I would ideally like a reasonably accurate to very accurate load at 2550-2600fps. I'm currently at 73 grains at 2515fps with a 1.5" group. I'm going to keep working up and see if the groups get any tighter, but if they don't what should I do? I'm planning to use it for brown bear, leopard, buffalo, lion, hippo, ect, so should I go with rediculous accuracy at 2475fps or so/so accuracy at 2550-2600fps?

Here's the target with groups at 70.5gr, 71gr, 72gr, and 73gr of RL 15. Their respective group sizes are written beside them.





Brett

71 grs goes how fast? over 2000fps impact velocity? ,, all the the group are acceptable, the 71gr is exceptional ... try that one at 200 yards, too ... and then use THAT!!

Brett

I won't swear on a stack of bibles concerning this, but in all the years I have been shooting critters, I have not found one yet that had a chronograph in his pocket to measure velocity with! In fact I don't really believe I met a lion, bear, hippo, buffalo, or elephant that much give a damn if the bullet was doing 2475 fps or 2600 fps!!! If they did, they never told me anything about it!

Now this is just me, but if I were you I would be far more interested in accuracy first, then terminal performance of said bullet at that velocity. That 71 grs of RL 15 is looking pretty spiffy to me right now, so I think I would test my terminal ballistics at that velocity and go hunting!

Damn fine shooting!
Michael

1.5 inch groups day in day out to the same point of impact.
I don't think you could ask for any better in a large bore (or any bore for that matter) for a hunting rifle for big game.
If the rifle shoots better than you can from field postions what more can you ask for?

Only accurate rifles ae intersting. 1.5" groupain't bad for a hunting rifle. That's good out to 300 yds and that's about all you're gonna do with a .375 of any sort, anyway. Like michal458 said, no crittur's gonna care about 80/90 fps and 2475 will kill anything with a good bullet. Don't sweat it.

Brett, when both of my Hawkeyes were 375 Rugers, (the African is now re-bored and re-chambered to my wildcat 404/375 Ruger) they both shot the 300 TSXs at less than MOA out to 300 yds with H-4350. With the same load MV = 2554 fps in the 23" African and MV = 2465 fps in the Alaskan 20" bbl. For comparison, factory 300 gn Hornady MV was 2614 fps and 2587 fps in each rifle respectively. Accuracy was the same in both.

The Alaskan so far has accounted for an 8'8" squared brown bear inside 40 yds, a black bear at 260 yds and another at 330 yds. all with the 300 TSX. The last 2 were in open country where getting closer wasn't possible.

I tried RL-15 but ran into extraction signs (mild but reproducible) before I reached 2500 fps in either rifle. So I've stuck with H-4350 and had good accuracy and sufficient MV for good bullet performance both near and far.

I think I'd take the 71.0 gr RL-15 load ... very accurate and will be tolerant of some temperature variation.

I suspect the target won't be able to tell you've been conservative in your load selection

Damn fine group that!

My M70 SS Classic in .375 H&H does 2604 fps with the 300 gr TSX. Provides terrific penetration and beautiful mushrooms (I've only recovered one).

We are all guilty of getting alittle carried away,I'm not advocating velocity over accuracy but for a hunting rifle 1.5" groups are fine,if it will hold that level of accuracy out to 300 your in great shape.

As a hunter, when you are in the field and facing the game you desperately want to take with a single shot, will you think:

"I hope this bullet reaches X,XXX velocity!"

or

"I hope this bullet goes exactly where I want it to go!"

More accuracy means a greater liklihood of the bullet going where you want particularly at greater distances.

I know that some smartass will take umbrage with my use of the word "hope" but the fact is, the better the accuracy, the less one has to "hope" the bullet will hit where intended in real-world, all-weather field conditions.

My PH in Zimbabwe last month felt the same way and said so when we were zero'ing our rifles.

If you are happy with your results then stop. If you still desire additional velocity and want to keep the accuracy it may take some more tinkering with other powders.
I have had the opportunity to try and "make" a gun shoot good. It took allot of experimentation and time on the range. Finally made it happen!
A 1/2 group with any gun is very good. It would instill quite a bit of confidence in that gun.

EZ

my 376 steyr shoots itty bitty groups with 225 SP hornadys, at 2800fps ..;. it can go bigger, but for texas hunting, WHY?

its a pig slayer!

My 375 H&H shoots little bitty groups at 2480 fps with the 300 grain TSX and I don't think that any of the animals that I shot noticed that I was missing 100 fps.

Michael' Perhaps you should post my recent photos that I sent to you. Both the Buff. and the Eland were shot with Barnes 300 xxx's and 71 grains Re 15Regards from Dhufish

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Brett

I won't swear on a stack of bibles concerning this, but in all the years I have been shooting critters, I have not found one yet that had a chronograph in his pocket to measure velocity with! In fact I don't really believe I met a lion, bear, hippo, buffalo, or elephant that much give a damn if the bullet was doing 2475 fps or 2600 fps!!! If they did, they never told me anything about it!

Now this is just me, but if I were you I would be far more interested in accuracy first, then terminal performance of said bullet at that velocity. That 71 grs of RL 15 is looking pretty spiffy to me right now, so I think I would test my terminal ballistics at that velocity and go hunting!

Damn fine shooting!
Michael

JP dhufish
I would be delighted to get those photos up for you!





Looks like the exact same load that Brett has listed above.
I think it worked pretty damn good as best I can tell!

Michael

By all means, work up more and see if you hit another sweet spot at higher velocity; but be sure to keep that 71gr load in your records for later use.
Generally RL15 gives the higher velocities with 270gr bullets and under and awesome accuracy when you find the sweet spots. Try IMR4350 or H4350 for 300 gr bullets.
check the barnes loading data on their website for some more loads with other powders.

With my 375 H&H I use IMR4350 and at 150yds all my bullets will fill a 1" target When I say all I mean 20 rounds OF curse I load out of an old
manual

try H/IMR 4350 in the 375 ruger, its better suited to this cartridge/ proj weight than R15
another powder to try is R17 i get a feeling you can reach 2700 with a 300 gn proj
Daniel

Brett,
I have the same "problem", my 375 Ruger thinks it's a varmit rifle. Maybe because the only thing I have shot with it was a coyote thus far. I have had success with 260gr Accubonds and Reloader 15 producing sub 0.5" groups. When I want load 300 grain bullets I have moved to H4350. Start at 78.0 grains and go up from there. The 78gr load provides me with 2460 fps and .75" with Barnes TSX. I stopped when I got to 2550 fps.

The intersting thing I found with this rifle and H4350 is 260gr Accubonds, 270 grain Horn Sp and 300 gr TSX's all shoot to exactly the same point of impact. I can take one of each and shoot them into a 1" group easily. So when I am playing around I use R-15 and the Accubonds when I want to take it deer hunting or strictly less then DG hunts, but when I take this rifle to DG, I will shoot it with H4350 and the Barnes TSX's

I have to throw this out for comment.

I’m not overly concerned when pressure levels are +2-3K psi above cartridge MAP when combined with a high quality action and cartridge brass…which is the case with the M77 Ruger and the Hornady .375 Ruger brass, and fortunately both are factory manufactured with a built in safety pressure margin.

I am concerned that all of Brett’s loadings using RL-15 are all well above MAP for the .375 Ruger and that his upcoming 74gr loadings…as a prospective hunting load…may be approaching proof loads.

I know QuickLOAD is a tool and therefore is not to be taken as gospel…however velocity wise it’s pretty darn close to chronographed loads when barrel lengths are matched. If QL’s indicated pressure levels are as closely accurate as its velocity levels then the below pressure levels should be of major concern.

Using QL, the SAAMI loaded overall cartridge length 3.340”, the 300gr Barnes TSX bullet, and RL-15 powder results in 66.4K psi for the 70gr load, 75.4K psi for the 73gr load, 69.2K psi for Brett’s’ most accurate 71gr load, and 78.6K psi for the upcoming 74gr load. And lengthening the COAL to 3.4”, if it would fit within and flawlessly function from the magazine, only reduces each loading by 3K psi.

So…as knowledgeable adults, what is the pressure threshold that one should stay below before fate been sufficiently tempted...perhaps one too many times? When should we say enough is enough?

Try a different powder, and you may get accuracy and more velocity. I's suggest R17, R19, and even R22.

Jim

I have not run those numbers, and I certainly have more faith in your QL numbers than mine anyway! I have many times found that velocities normally estimate high in many cases, not all, but many. Pressures are another story---All the pressures that I have actually tested here on the pressure trace are damn near spot on with the QL.

Guys, I would not brush this one off, take a closer look at your cases and pressure signs.

Michael

AIU proposed using a different powder and suggested R17, R19, and even R22 which got me to wondering what the QuickLOAD software performance difference would be.

Michael…thanks for the comments, I was just about ready to hit the button this when I saw your post. Good to know that QL pressure levels are pretty accurate.

I think the question scenario at the end of this post may also have relevance so I’m hitting the button anyway.

Perhaps incorrectly I’m assuming Brett’s rifle is the M77 Alaskan...Yep, it is the African model…so have revised to 23” barrel length I ran some comparisons in using RL-17 powder with the following results:
70.5gr – 2507 fps – 55.5K psi
71.0gr – 2523 fps – 56.7K psi
72.0gr – 2554 fps – 59.2K psi
73.0gr – 2585 fps – 61.8K psi
74.0gr – 2615 fps – 64.5K psi
The RL-19 and RL-22 powders at 100% volume delivered velocity levels much lower than these at corresponding lower pressure levels.

Re-reading Brett’s post, he notes that 73.0gr of RL-15 chronographed at 2515 fps…virtually identical to the QL results for 71.0gr of RL-17.

And, QL indicates a 73.0gr RL-15 powder charge delivers 2679 fps at 75.4Kpsi. However a reduced powder charge of 67.5gr RL-15 delivers 2512 fps at 59.7K psi…a performance level which closely matches Brett’s chronographed 2515 fps.

There are a number of variables here: The QL software could have the wrong burn rates for RL-15 and RL-17 powders, the tuning verification of Brett’s chronograph, and then the manufacturing variances of the rifle and the individual cartridge components.

I understand that individual rifles of the same make and chambered for the same cartridge with identical barrel lengths can deliver a velocity difference of 200 fps principally due to the manufacturing variances of the rifle but also the individual cartridges.

So presuming that QL has the correct burn rates for the RL-15 and RL-17 powders and that Brett’s chronograph is properly tuned…could the velocity loss, presumably due to the noted manufacturing variances, result in a corresponding pressure reduction similar to the QL reduced powder charge?

Edited to correct barrel length and QL results. Also, yes there is a slight variance everytime QL is run.

Jim

Yes, the manufacturing variances noted could be a factor, however I think there are several folks loading RL-15 in this cartridge, and I don't hear any of them talking about pressures with loads of RL-15 in the low 70-74 grs or so. Now I don't know crap, never loaded this cartridge, have not even looked at one till you sent samples. But I would tend to lean towards the QL data as being a little off somewhere maybe? I am very sure you have a better handle on QL than I do from some of the info you have sent me, but on this cartridge since it is relatively new (not in my QL database) and neither is RL17 in my database, maybe it is not quite tweaked just right in QL?

Maybe the noted manufacturing differences in rifles if it was one, but I think there are several out there using the RL 15 at these levels???

How do I get RL 17 on in my QL database? I should be able to download that from the web site???? It's been so long since I updated I forgot how, and you know I can't RTB (Read The Book).

Also how would RL 17 look in any of the B&Ms--RL 15 does rather well in the 500 MDM, second only to H322! RL 17 might be a 500 MDM powder?


Michael

Michael,

I purchased QuickLOAD and QuickDESIGN this past summer...had to wait almost a month though as they were out of the product while awaiting new delivery from Germany. When received I had QL v3.5 which is the latest.

I know you can obtain a bullet update file but not sure about the powder. I'd recommend just purchasing the QL update from the Neco website, here's their link:
http://www.neconos.com/index.html

I've moved the B&M cartridge designs from QD over to QL and have emailed you the results along with a few other files.

i have pressure tested R17 in the 06 and it gives lower pressre for a higher velocity than H4350 ,if this was the same in the 375 Ruger than 2700 could be attained with R17 and 300 gn proj, as i think the max is about 2650 with H4350/300 GN PROJ
Powder density appears to be much the same between R17 and H4350....58 gns in the 06 case fills the case to the same level
Would be intresting to see how R17 went
Daniel

What little loading I have done with the 375 Ruger mine showed a preference of RL 15 with 270 grain bullets. H4350 With 300 gr.
H 4350 79 GR 300 gr 3@.82"
RL 15 72 GR 270 Horn RN 3@.67" Best 270 Gr LD
300 gr was around 2520 FPS 20" barrel
270 Gr was around 2525 FPS 20" barrel
3 round group at 100 yards worked up to 74 gr
of RL 15 same accuracy in the 270 bullet.

My QL analysis yielded the following with a 24" barrel. I woulded hesitate to approach these velocities, and I'd be willing tap in the powder and compress, if needed.

Cartridge : .375 Ruger
Bullet : .375, 300, Barnes 'TSX' 37558
Useable Case Capaci: 78.756 grain H2O = 5.114 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %

Powder Grains/velocity
---------------------------------
Norma MRP 84.9/2728
Vihtavuori N560 84.3/2708
Accurate MAGPRO 87.9/2697
Alliant Reloder-22 83.7/2695
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 89.4/2680
IMR 7828 SSC 83.2/2679
Ramshot Hunter 79.2/2652
Hodgdon H4350 76.0/2650
Alliant Reloder-19 80.1/2648
Winchester 760 76.6/2645
Alliant Reloder-17 74.2/2642
IMR 4350 75.1/2635
Vihtavuori N550 75.8 /2634
Norma URP 75.6/2634
Norma 204 78.3/2622
Ramshot BigGame 73.6/2614
Hodgdon H4831 SC 81.4/2610
Alliant Reloder-15 69.5/2595

IMO you easily should be able to get 2700 fps and remain within 65,000 PSI. I'm getting 2933 fps with a 300 gr Sierra, 26.5" barrel, 95 grs MRP, MOA accuracy, and 375 H&H AI (case capacity only 5% larger than 375 Ruger). Slower powder may give you the accuracy and speed you're looking for. Regards, AIU

AIU
there intresting velocities with R22/MRP in the 375 RUGER...i would have thought the slightly faster powders would reach the 2700 mark not the slow burners
the guy on gun blast .com got some real dizzy vel with H4350 when he was testing it with 300 gn proj
Daniel

I'm not sure why a fella needs more accuracy or velocity than has been discussed, but maybe that's why I run a 376 and 9.3x62...

Daniel, with a 375 HH AI and a 26.5" barrel I'm getting 2933 fps with 95 grs of Normal MRP and 300 gr Sierra BTs. This is awesome and the cases reload over and over. This has been published by other reloaders as well. MRP is a great powder that works in other cartridges besides the '06. Regards, AIU

I get good accuracy and good (great) velocity with H4350



Load work up with 270gr TSX on top left, final load on right, middle


Accubond load