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In the past I've used Swift A-Frame's and Trophy Bonded Solids in my .416 Rem. Mag for Cape Buffalo. I recently acquired a .416 Rigby that I will be taking to Australia in June for water buffalo. I recently was able to get a large quantity of Hornady DGX (expanding) ammo for practice cheap. Does anyone have experience with this ammo on DG? Good or Bad ? Thank you in advance for your help. | ||
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Go to the terminalbullet performance thread inthe big bore forum. All will be answered a/b the dgx | |||
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I used the DGX last August in Zimbabwe in a .458 lott, a 500 gr. I shot a nice bull at 20 yards 5 times with the 500 gr DGX. I killed the buffalo because of bullet placement but was very disappointed in bullet performance. The first shot hit ribs and ribs alone. It started to mushroom and then the mushroom sheared off, basically leaving a solid that had slowed down and didn't exit. the other recovered bullet had mushroomed and sheared off down to the cannelure. I'm switching bullets to something with more substance. | |||
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Many reports from clients and Ph's alike about poor performance of the DGX. As said on another thread of the same topic, I'll NEVER shoot a non-bonded, cup and core bullet at something that has the ability to stomp the crap out of me. NEVER! There is a reason Hornady ammo is cheap. Try the CEB's or TSX! Guaranteed performance everytime. Not a crap shoot like the DGX! Pun intended.  | |||
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odd, its a steel jacketed soft, just like kynock and woodleigh used to make. i think highly of them, but haven't used them on DG opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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CEB's =  Respects, Phill | |||
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My experience: http://forums.accuratereloadin...461058361#3461058361 Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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I used it on buffalo in Zimbabwe in 2010. One shot through the shoulder from a 375 Ruger and the buff keeled right over. Dead within 20 feet. Example of one. SCI Life Member DRSS "In those savage countries success frequently depends upon one particular moment; you may lose or win according to your action at that critical instant." Sir Samuel Baker | |||
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Antlers: While that is a bit disconcerting, at what point before the animal died did the bullet fail? It's just one bullet. And ultimately, it worked. I've seen a TSX bullet in .416 shed a petal and serioulsy veer off course, but the animal died. Most of the time, that doesn't happen. Bullets do funny things. Every shot is a high speed collision and every single one is different. | |||
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Perfect description. We shoot animals from every conceivable angle, hit bone or don't, at an animal that's either tense and alert or perfectly calm, and then blame the bullets for the differences in the outcome. For every hunter extolling the virtues of a given bullet, you'll find an equal number swearing they'd never use that bullet again, because of XXXX. A high-speed collision of a piece of metal with the ambiguity of an animal's physiology. | |||
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OK, I am confused. This discription of performance of a DGX sounds similar to how the CEB non-com performs, yet it is highly touted. ????? 465H&H | |||
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Lavaca, I think part of the problem is that while Antlers' example is just one bullet, there are many reports of similar disappointing performances with the DGX. Many of these reports come from Professional Hunters that specialize in hunting Dangerous Game. Yes the animal died as you say, and for hunting Plains Game in Africa, or non DG here is the States, etc, that philosophy is fine. But when you open the game with an animal that's capable of killing you, do you really want to take a chance on having a bullet come apart before it has a chance to do damage to the vitals of the animal. Certainly, anyone has the right to use whatever weapon and ammo they prefer, as long as it's legal, but there are bullet options available that have a history of more reliable or more consistent performance. When shooting something like Cape Buffalo it's just my personal preference to shoot a monometal bullet such as the CEB, TSX, or a bonded bullet such as the Swift A-Frame. Viewing the bullet's toughness from the objective standpoint of materials and methods used in construction, I would think it pretty hard to argue the DGX is as tough as the TSX, CEB, North Fork, GS, A-Frame, etc. I would also think it's a safe bet to rate the Cape Buffalo right up there at the top of the toughness scale for game animals. Why not match the toughest bullets to the toughest DG animals? | |||
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Hate to sound like a dummy ...but what is a CEB bullet? | |||
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Cutting Edge Bullets...the #13 bullet is the latest, in solids and Non-Con (cavity nose). See the threads about penetration that go 218 pages? Most of that is testing the CEBs. Michael458 is so enamored of their performance, I think he develops ED if he doesn't have a pocket full of them at all times :-) | |||
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465H&H My own, just my own personal opinion, of the DGX is that it should work like a conventional softpoint. Mushroom and hold together. I think the jacket is too brittle or stiff. When the bullet I mentioned in my previous post started to mushroom, the beginnings of the mushroom sheared off, allowing the bullet to alter its course. Not being as knowledgeable as some others on this forum, I sort of expect a "solid" to punch through a buff at 22 yards if it is acting as a solid. My loads were chrono'd at 2260 for the solid and 2254 for the DGX both being the 500 gr. The only other bullet we recovered (2 out of 5) had sheared off all the way down to the cannelure and staying inside the buff. Since we did not find the other 3, I assume (yes I know about assumption) they self destructed. Don't know that, only assume. The previous year, I used a 500 gr Woodleigh in a .470 and the bullet performance was much more like what I am used to. It held together extremely well. I looked at Michael458's ballistic tests on the CEB non cons and, I could be wrong on this but, it is my understanding that the non con is designed to shed the petals of the bullet but the core of the bullet still continues in a fairly straight line. Why am I bitching? Can't explain it, the buffalo was dead at the first shot, kept trying to get up and as long as it can move, it could get lucky and get up and 20 yards is too close to allow that. The CEB's are more expensive, but considering the cost of a buffalo hunt, relatively insignificant. I have outstanding luck with the Barnes TSX in all of the calibers up to and including the 416 Rem but as of yet have not tried one in anything bigger than that. I will be taking CEB's next year in my .470 to try and I bet they do a bang up job. I will use the DGX for target practice. Just my personal choice. You will read a lot of back and forth on these bullets, some positive (1 shot kills) and some bad. I think it is just personal choice. I would like to see the jacket material on the DGX a tad bit softer, not quite so brittle. I think it would make a lot of difference. | |||
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I have never used DGXs because one of the people involved in the testing of them back in 2007 recommended that I never use them. In his opinion the results of the tests on live game in real hunting conditions were completely unacceptable. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Different bullet designs are used to get different performance by different manufacturers. For instance the CEB Noncon and Nosler Partition are designed to lose most of the nose early in penetration to increase trauma as the bullet passes through the vital areas but the base of the bullet continues to provide deep penetration. This assumes that the bullet will be a placed on a broad side or near broadside shot. Put one of these into the ass end of a departing bull and they will lose the nose before the vitals are reached. Other bullets such as the Swift A-frame, Woodleigh soft and the Barnes TSX are designed to hold the mushroom together for the full length of penetration. These give up a little in penetration to the Nosler and CEB to have maximum trauma along the whole course of the amount they do penetrate. Where the Hornady DGS fits into this lineup, isn't clear to me. Because it uses a steel jacket lead core covered with a copper outer jacket. The steel tends to break up rather than tear as gilding metal or copper will do. It therefore appears to act more like the CEB or Nosler in some ways. My personal opinion is that they would be better off with a regular gilding metal jacket. Another consideration in evaluating bullet performance is exactly what did the bullet hit and how did that affect the bullets shape. Hit a bone with a glancing blow and part of the bullet metal will be damaged on that side. With a TSX you may lose one or two petals, with a standard soft point one side will have the lead core wiped off. Now that bullet is out of round and has less resistance on one side as it passes through tissue. When that occurs whether it is some lead or a petal missing the bullet becomes destabilized and it can veer or tumble or both and penetration will decrease although trauma will increase. I also think that many of us have read too many bullet manufacturers adverts that show perfectly expanded softs and expect that to happen every time. I promise you that it won't happen every time no matter which bullet you chose to use. 465H&H | |||
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I have to disagree with a couple of statements you made. Firstly, my experience with the TSX is that it doesn't give up penetration to a any soft point or expanding bullet, especially a Partition. I understand your reasoning but in actual practice, I have recovered very few TSX's. Most have given full penetration and exited. I've seen Partition's come completely apart in the same manner that the DGX tends to do. I used to shoot Partitons but after digging out only fragments of one on an Elk taken in 06, I switched to the TSX. My second comment applies to the first. The below picture represents ALL of the TSX bullets I've ever recovered except a for a single 570 TSX recovered in the neck of an arse shot buffalo. I gave that one to my son as it was his buff. These look pretty close to the manufacturer's adverts to me.  They are left to right (and posted previously) 1) 570gr TSX, 500NE, Giraffe, 2) 350gr TSX, 416 Rigby, Buffalo Bull, 3) 300gr TSX, 375H&H, Brown Bear, 4) 300gr TSX, 375H&H, Sable, 5) 225gr X, 340WBY, Elk Bull. | |||
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Todd, Let's agree to disagree and no hard feelings here about it. None of those bullets you showed lost a petal. Read above of the one that did lose one and veered. You had five that worked as advetised. How does that prove that the other several hundred thousand shot into game acted the same? Also I have seen penetration tests reported in balistic gelatin that showed that in some calibers Partitions penetrated deeper than comparable weight and caliber TSXs. 465H&H | |||
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465, Yeah, we can disagree without hard feelings, no problem. I was just giving my personal experience, not at all saying that's the way it always is! The five shown are just the ones that I've recovered. I don't know how many I've shot into game that are still flying out there somewhere as far as I know! But it is a pretty large number, not just 5. | |||
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While I wes in Africa in May, 2011, I heard of some bad performance with DGX bullets. Some Phs who had been given free ones refused to use them, preferring to buy other bullets. There are so many good bullets that work that I dan't see any reason to try every new fad. I have used North Forks and TSXs for thick skinned and dangerous game and Nosler partitions for smaller stuff. I can't see the slightest reason to change. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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465H&H I am not disputing and hope I as well didn't cause hard feelings. I think these forums are just for that reason, to bring things, experiences and opinions into play. Where we hunted last year, the PH's asked what ammo we had and when both of us told them Hornady, they got a terribly disgusted look on their face. One of them actually told my hunting partner that he should leave all of his "softs" in camp and hunt strictly with solids. I figure they have seen more shots and results than I have and they must have a reason. I wasn't impressed with the DGX and never had a chance to shoot any of the DGS. They shoot well and I was able to achieve the velocity I was after in a Lott but will be switching to one of several makes of bullets. Indy, One of the PH's in camp told me the same thing. Told me he pulled the DGX's and replaced them with his choice of bullet. | |||
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Todd: It's pretty hard to beat a TSX  Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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PAGO, No had feelings on my part at all. I thought your posts were to the point and very polite. If you reread my posts you will see that I never doubted your word nor did I say in any way that I thought that the DGS was a good bullet or that I would use one. In fact I agreed with your premise that the steel jacket was too brittle and could cause fracturing of the jacket instead of bending. 465H&H | |||
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If we are taling a specific buffalo bullet you cannot beat the barnes TSX ot the swift A frame (or one of ken Stuarts bullets or GS custom) If you are talking about a general purpose dangerous game soft points there is a differnece- the bulllet must expand on lion and possibly even leopard. I have photo's of tsx's from a .416 which failed toally to open at all on lion...The woodleigh softs are a bit soft... they work on buffalo well from side on but fail if you are trying a 'fast disapearing' animal shot... As a PH I like the combination on woodleigh softs and solids in my double. In my bolt action, I'll match the bullet to the game being hunted...and all of my loads...from woodleigh solids to stuart or swift softs through to 270grn speers all land within 3" of aim at 100m - You cannot ask- or expect- better than that! | |||
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What's the difference between Hornady's DGX and it's RN? The part # differs slightly between these whereas it's the same for the DGS and the FMJ-RN. Have a box of 450\400s in each of the 4 mentioned above. The only noticeable difference I see is that the box of RNs show a little more exposed lead than the DGX. DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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well.. everything .. the DGX and DGS are steel cup, brass washed, rnFP, of identical shape and flight characteristics, for DG hunting ranges. the old old old RNs solids were also steel cup, but different shape than the RN softs, then the interbond and whatever the other name was were entirely different bullets from each other. in short, other than being .458 and hornady, there's nothing alike not saying you are wrong, but i disagree with you sir, i don't believe hornday ever made 450/400 bullets prior to dgs/gx, but i am more than willing to be wrong
put a magnet on them opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hunteratheart, My last year's hunting partner used the Hornady Interbond, the one with the more yellow colored jacket, in a 500 grain .458 win mag, through the chronograph at 2150. He shot his buffalo at 30-35 yards with a quartering to shot. The bullet penetrated, hit a rib and bounced back into the shoulder blade without penetrating into the vitals. Recovered bullet weighed around the 260 grain mark. ONE petal of the mushroom sheared off and went into one lung, the second shot was a hornady solid from the rear going away and put the buff down and allowed him to approach and finish off the buffalo. The PH, upon seeing his soft nosed choice advised him to use only the solids. He called Hornady upon returning home and they told him that they had discontinued them for a reason and replaced them with the DGX. Don't get me wrong, I hunt with Hornady bullets in everything else I use and love them, they work but for Buffalo they lack a big level of performance. My first shot out of a .458 Lott didn't lose that much weight on a quartering shot away from me and shot placement at 20-21 yards with the DGX. I took the top of his heart off and effectively killed the buffalo. The bullet didn't lose that much weight but it just didn't perform. The second bullet we recovered lost more than half of it's weight. And not in a nice controlled expansion but just appeared to have sheared off at the cannelure. None of the bullets exited at 20 yards or less. I just don't think they will hold together well enough to quickly and humanely kill. | |||
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None of this surprises me. Hornady bullets are cheap, and once again it has been proven that you get what you pay for! | |||
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I'm all for higher education. Willing to send pics DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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Hornady did make 450/400s in a 400gr RN prior to the DGX being available. In fact, my Heym PH was regulated with it. I shot about ten boxes thru the rifle early on - velocities chrono'd pretty low. Putting a magnet on the RN will indeed reveal the diff. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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How was the performance of the RN in relation to the DGX? Anything noticeable?
The box states same velocity as the DGX. Guess I'm wondering if only taking one box of softs with me, should it be the RN or the DGX or does it even matter (Only 1 box as the rest will be solids for my 450\400). DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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I've never chrono'd DGX factory loads - I've only handloaded the DGX. However, I went back and looked at my data. One day I chrono'd 10rnds of RN (five each from 2 boxes) the ten rounds averaged 1926fps. On another day I chrono'd 4 each from 2 boxes - those 8 averaged 1997fps. The first 2 boxes were the same lot. The second 3 boxes were from a different lot. Temps were in the low 70s both days. I have no confidence in the velocities advertised on the boxes. Depending on what you're chasing, I'd shoot the RN if you're deer hunting or hog hunting. I killed both with the RN and wasn't pleased with the RN performance on the deer, but performace on the pigs was fine - I think Hornady's 300gr FP will perform better on deer. If you're limited to those 2 factory options, I'd shoot the DGX if you're hunting something big. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Antlers: You may not have any confidence in the velocity advertised on the box but I submit to you that if we are talking about the 450/400 the velocity that you are getting is right where it is supposed to be. Kynoch ammo allegedly runs at 2125 fps but that is out of a 30 inch barrel. Cut four to six inches off that barrel length and the Hornady stuff is right in the ballpark. Hornady has to make ammo that will regulate in all the 450/400, new and old. This ammo will do that. My only surprise is that they didn't to that with the 470 NE. Not to worry. The 450/400 at around 2000 fps has effectively killing stuff for more than 100 years. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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