While shooting our 500NEs on a private ranch yesterday, the ranch owner showed us a new CZ .416Rigby which had a muzzle brake installed but had not been bedded because he assumed that with 2 recoil lugs and a OEM stock, all should be well.

It wasn't. After only a few rounds fired, the rancher offered it to Beau who fired two rounds. On the second round the stock behind the bolt fractured, cutting his hand, drawing blood and depositing a 4"x2" piece of stock wood from behind the bolt recess on the ground at his feet.
The left side had a severe crack in the same area and would also have split off on the next round.

The rancher was mortified. The rifle was intended to go on an Alaskan fly fishing trip next month. It won't. A synthetic stock, properly bedded is in the future for this CZ.

Sorry to hear that. That has always been a fear of mine. I have a CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery. Mine has been bedded by Harlan at the CZ Custom Shop. It has 400 full power rounds through it, 100 of those rounds through a lead sled (load development and initial sighting in). I'm grateful the wood is still intact, but plan to buy a synthetic stock for it, because if I go back to Alaska for brown bear I'm bringing it! Also I want to have a back up stock. I took my XCR II in 375 Weatherby last time (which did fine) ... My plan is to leave the 500 Jeffery in the wood stock for Colorado and Africa (hopefully) and switch it to synthetic the next time I go to Alaska.


CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery



Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby

Lion Hunter

Interesting story.

Was this caused by the tang not being relieved
or the stock setting back then causing the tang
to fracture the stock ?

Ruger had a problem with the Tangs not being relieved which then led to stocks splitting.

There have been lots of similar instances with CZ550s reported here. Happen to have a picture of the stock?

No pics of the stock.

It did not look to me like the tang caused the problem, rather I believe the entire barreled action moved rearwards in the stock based upon my observations. I believe the bolt handle moving rearwards when fired caused the breakage on the right side that cut Beaus hand. The rancher did not offer to pull the stock and in fact put it immediately into a gun case, saying he was so pissed he didn't even want to look at it!

I understand his frustration! And yes, CZ large bore rifles in wood stocks have been infamous for breaking for well over 10 years now. I would strongly recommend anyone considering the purchase of a new CZ big bore only buy one with the synthetic stock, and then bed it well. You will be saving yourself from unwanted grief.

If this happened in Alaska or africa or the rockies you would be SOL! I have seen rifles fail in africa on more than one occasion, and it's never pretty. Fortunately, in africa I was able to provide a back-up rifle to the impacted party. In most all of these cases, if the rifle had been fired enough at home under conditions similar to the hunting situation, the failure would have occurred while at home and could have then been corrected prior to departure for the hunt destination. The idea of firing a few rounds through a new rifle to zero it before leaving on a hunt, thinking all is well, is simply asking for trouble IMO.

"In most all of these cases, if the rifle had been fired enough at home under conditions similar to the hunting situation, the failure would have occurred while at home and could have then been corrected prior to departure for the hunt destination. The idea of firing a few rounds through a new rifle to zero it before leaving on a hunt, thinking all is well, is simply asking for trouble IMO."


Lion Hunter

Exactly, well said.

That is half the problem, people not doing enough shooting
before going and then having problems, not just stock ones
but all the other type we hear about as well.

IMHO, you need to be able to work a gun blind folded
before going - fire, unload, reload, load up the mag,
empty the mag, all in the dark and by feel.

Had the almost exact same thing happen with a CZ in .458 Lott. I Think their choice of wood is not nice.

I have an early CZ in 505. Same thing happened (less severe) after 30 rounds. Glass bedded, 2 crossbolts, problem solved
most commercial rifles are not going to be properly bedded; I have to do it mydelf

had a 602 that came to the new owner with 37 rounds of ammo, 2 empties, and one missing... the previous owner had bought it, fired two shots, put it up for ~15 years, and then sold it, keeping one case.

the 6th round, the stock let go, in my hands... and stuck a CHUNK in the web of my right hand

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Had the almost exact same thing happen with a CZ in .458 Lott. I Think their choice of wood is not nice.

I agree pagosa. The wood on my rifle while pretty, is not straigh grained which I understand is better for durability under recoil.

Unlucky. Mine is good, so far. I did eventually have it professionally bedded, but by that stage it had hundreds of rounds through it. My friend's is also fine, unbedded. Bloody great rifles, those CZ .416 Rigbys.

I've had 3 CZ 416Rigbys. One of them had no crossbolt, but all have the second barrel lug. No problems so far.

However, two of them have been re-bedded, first in the main action lug, then in the barrel-lug area. The rebedding was to increase accuracy. I don't like zero points to shift 3 inches. It appears that the rebedding has fixed that.

Which version of the stock was it?

It old news the first CZ550 stocks were crap...and also the first ones they brought out for the 505. Any of us buying a CZ550 bigger than 375 back in early 2000's or using them for bigger conversions automatically figured in a new stock as common sense.

The latest stock and its dual crossbolts are a different beast. I have not had nor heard of any problems with it so far, unless the above stories include this stock type?

I've shot ten rounds in my CZ 550 Magnum 375 H & H, no problems in the wood, and does not crossbolt, however I have a CZ 550 Safari Magnum with two crossbolt and I still have not shot in the cartridge 458 Lott. Reading your post really I care to have problems with the butt because he has made ​​the bedding.

Had a CZ in .416 Rigby.

Had the bedding checked before I shot it, by a gunsmith that understood bedding. It didn't need anything done to it so away I went.
I fired over 100 rounds without a problem and it is now in the Northern Territory killing water buffalo.

I have shot about 100 rounds through my CZ 550 458Lott and zero problem so far
By the way it has 2 factory cross bolts and a second barrel recoil lug.

Lets not blame the "wood", rather improper bedding that is critical to big bore rifles. I have used wood for 65 years as I dislike plastic of any kind, and don't care much for Stainless steel, but to each his own..

Were I to buy a CZ and I have on ocassions in a big bore rifle, I would first of all steel bed it from one end to the other, I would cross bolt it and I would add a barrel recoil lug if necessary..Leave a 3/32 or less gap in the tang.

All Factory guns are basically machine inletted and that works fairly well on lighter recoiling guns but not on big bores..The problems has cropped up on CZs, Rugers,Remington and Winchesters.

I know of and have see some high dollar custom rifles that have met their fate in Africa because the arrogant gun maker said a properly bedded big bore will not come apart or crack and had no need of reinforcement of any kind. but wood moves around a bit if not fully cured, and gaps form and if you give a big bore a gap its going to open up.

I'm not saying that a big bore custom cannot be properly bedded and if the wood is properly laid out, and properly cured it won't hold up, a few have, but its risky business at best.

Tweak your big bores before you go to Africa or on a Brown Bear hunt, those hunts cost big bucks and a good tweeking cost very little by comparison..Every boy scout knows "be prepared". In fact all my guns are tweaked to one extent or the other before a hunt. A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I know of a few old English rifles that have held up for years, but cured wood was more likely available back then and the shelves of Holland and Holland, Rigby and others contained lots of dry cured wood then I suspect. Many of those great guns cured in someones gun rack or closet for years most likely.. Also, I have looked a lot of old English and German guns that were split out to one degree or another..I know that with modern powder and components velocity has picked considerably form the old day and that will take its toll on wood.

Not the last word on the subject but I have studied and read up on it, and have used many nice guns under the harshest of conditions and the above is my opinnion. I will continue to use wood and rust blue, I'm a nostalgic and I'm getting by real well without such incidents.

In one of the gun mags an article by Craig Bodington on old big bore guns had a picture of a 505 Gibbs in which the bolt-action rifle had the pistol grip area encased with a metal sleeve.

http://www.hallowellco.com/selous_plates.htm

Selous Plates - Form-fitting panels of thin sheet steel inletted and screwed onto both sides of the wrist of a shoulder-fired weapon,
either as a reinforcement or repair. Named for the famed African hunter Frederic Courtney Selous.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
In one of the gun mags an article by Craig Bodington on old big bore guns had a picture of a 505 Gibbs in which the bolt-action rifle had the pistol grip area encased with a metal sleeve.

I believe that was Richard Harland's 505.

I think a 416 is overkill for fly fishing.

416 Rigby is the cat's meow for guineafowl

Get a McM with the magnum fill and you will not need the secondary lug bedded. In fact, it is machined with clearance so as to not be used, if desired. This recommended by both McM and D'Arcy Echols (as he does with his Legend) when I was deciding what to do with my M70 416 Rem. Bed the action, don't bed the barrel lug and float the barrel was the direction they gave.

Time to trot out this old much re-posted photo:



The 404 Jeffery stock snapped at the wrist, yet the .505 Gibbs stock held up.
Both had proper bedding and crossbolting.

It is all about the grain flow in the critical area of the wrist, or grip of the rifle.

I could not hide the defect in the broken stock of the CZ 404 Jeffery even with Selous Plates, unless the plates extended back over the nose of the comb.
That would take many hours of custom metal shaping and inletting of the plates to the wood.

I sent the CZ 404 Jeffery stock back to CZ-USA in Kansas City, KS and they sent me a CZ Kevlar stock to replace it, free of charge, at my request,
rather than another American Black Walnut "Fancy" stock.
That is a better stock than a McMillan, because the CZ Kevlar from Bell&Carlson has a full aluminum alloy endoskeleton bedding block,
which extends from butt to forend tip and all around the action and magazine well it is solid metal.

Both of these walnut stocks were from the first batch that CZ put out in 404 Jeffery and .505 Gibbs.
The glass bedding and the cross bolts were done by Kevin Jenkins, after purchase.

It is all about the grain in the grip.
An axial bolt of allthread steel from grip cap to rear pillar at tang,
imbedded in epoxy, would be the only hope to prevent the marble cake grip from cracking.

GUNNUT FOR 50 YEARS: THERE IS NO CURE

Rip is spot on, grain flow and wood cure is the main ingrediant along with good reinforcement practices like glass bedding, extra recoil lug,cross bolts...and on the really big bores a threaded bolt through the grip is a good idea.

I have been mildly chastised on this very forum to the effect that my work is good but that I have a tendency for using common straight grained wood, though admittably good quality wood. That is a trueism, I am somewhat suspecious of marble cake in big bores. Give me straight greain, and lengthwise dark lines with a lighter matrix is suitable and I call that exhibition quality for big bores.

I'm sure that Selous plates work, but have never tried them..If I ever build another 505 or 500 Jefferys maybe I'll just get nostalgic and add those plates on my gun.

These are proven practices that have been working for over a 100 years, and thats a pretty good track record.

Ray,
I like your taste in walnut. It is a beautiful thing when that straight grain makes a dogleg through the grip, as if divinely guided.