We have picture of our 4 bore cases with 2000
grain Naval Ordnance bullets..One bullet is
softnose, and other is solid jacket,in first picture, including a 20mm case we make 4 bores from and 3006 case for comparison.

Second picture is our 2 bore case, next to
the 27mm Nato case we make it from,Included also, 3006 for comparison.On another thread someone wanted to see them together..Ed

This one wasn't working for me for some reason:



Have you seen this 4 bore? Comes with an extra shotgun barrel for only $35,000.



Edited: Both pictures are showing up for me now -- don't know what my problem was before.

Ed I couldn't get the second picture to show. First one is very impressive!
1st one just cam up thanks.
Do you know what the jacket thickness is on the 4 bore bullets?
Also is there a website for naval ordnance?

Charles that's not the century arms 4 bore made in oz by John Saunders is it?

Karl.

quote:

---

Originally posted by hubel458:
Included also, 3006 for comparison.On another thread someone wanted to see them together..Ed

---

In my prior post I forgot to mention how the inclusion of the 30-06 really brings home how impressive these cases/cartridges are. Thanks for posting them. Keep up the good work.

hubel458,

I think you could make a nice income for your self just making and selling 2 and 4 bore dummy rounds. Bet there are more than a few who would like to add those monsters to their cartridge collections.

Hog Killer

Charles--Got pics working now, I had something wrong
first time. That may be Saunders gun, from
description of those who shot it at their big bore shoot in AU.
Karl, the jackets on the softs are .035 and
.065 on solid jacket.He has an email--
nvordfdy@earthlink.net Phone 1-304-876-0998
Coincidence with last numbers of his phone,
as these bullets are .998 diameter.

Hog-Killer- That is what we are setting up equipment to do.Slow expensive process.Like we are making presses heavier, making 2 inch dies. rounding up supplies of cases, etc. Example; is
with the 20mm cases we are making 4 bore from is that all fired cases from any source
that we got them from, fired from Vulcan chain machinegun, has the bases cocked or bent,so are
in the process of getting unfired cases which cost 4 times as much. Even so we can still make super strong cases that won't wear out, for about half of turned cases, that are only half as strong.And turned cases are going up due to increases in metal prices.Ed.

Ed,
don'f forget your "22 short".. the 4 bore tula..

Looks like mike may be building a double in it...

jeffe

The Shot Show gossip mill says that Butch Searcy is building a double 4 bore rifle. No details but this could be a very interesting development.

The Tula cases would work ok for a double.
I wonder if we could get Searcy to use our super strong brass,or at least same chamber,
as I have the final size worked out, and they will work in Ken Owens' guns also.I decided on
not quite as much reduction on the base....It would be nice to get some interchangabilty
in this caliber.Seeing as how their is a supply of real nice bullets from Naval Ordnance to
get a standard bore and we have Badger setting up to do barrels the same at .998-1.000.Ed.

I'm in line for a couple of dummy rounds.

Yeah, I'd probably spring for some dummy rounds too.

hubel458,

could you also post some load data for these monsters? I realize that at this extreme it's irrelevant to look at how many grains of powder, fps and ft/lbs, but I'd like to know anyway.

Is that rifle you show a double? What does it weight and is there any video of it being shot?

Thanks for sharing.

The rifle shown above is a single barrel 4 bore
from Australia. It isn't mine. Wish it was.
I don't know whether videos were made of
someone shooting that gun.
As far as loadings-- with 2000 gr slugs, you can go from 7,000 ft lbs up to 40,000(this with strong bolt action) if you want.Case can hold over 600 gr of powder.
And with that much of the optimum ball powder,
you can get 3000 fps.If using black powder
you can get 11-1200 fps with 14 drams.With
real slow propellants(smokeless) you can get about any speed you want between low and
high end.On previous 2bore thread was load data using 112gr of bluedot in a 4bore and a bunch of wads, for a shotgun style loading.
As far as 2bore, the case can hold over 1100 gr powder, and in break actions the range of power would be 7000 to 40,000 fps.That is with break action only.With a cannon you could do over 80,000 ft lbs. .Ed.

I think my favorite 4-bore is still John Millar's hammer double. Anyone interested in these guns who has not read his story should read the African Hunter article:

Part I
Part II

I put the link to Century Arms' page about the single-shot 4-bore in my prior post, but am reposting it here for convenience.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Scott:
The Shot Show gossip mill says that Butch Searcy is building a double 4 bore rifle. No details but this could be a very interesting development.

---

Butch has built 4 bore doubles in the past and can do it again if a customer orders one.

Any pics, links, details? His web site does not mention them. Thanks. Mike Scott

What would just a general, no frills single-shot in 4 bore, or 2 bore cost someone to buy, and where is a good place to even start looking? Most of them seem to be in the several thousands of dollars range, but I can't imagine why it should cost THAT much extra just for more weight and a larger bore size. Might be just my wishful thinking ...

And yes, I would absolutely be in line for a 4 bore and 2 bore dummy round. I wouldn't even mind something like this in my gun case in case one of my friends comes over talking about his 500 Jeffery or something and how it's a real man's gun ...

You know, I was thinking about that 2 bore, and you probably wouldn't even need to actually SHOOT anything with it ... you could just club it to death with the round.

Why are they expensive? The existing ones are extremely rare and historic and actually not that expensive when compared to a new custom order. The new customs are true one-of-a-kind rifles which sell at premium prices because they are expensive to make and besides where else are you going to get one. My personal buy in point is probably around $2000 for something like this and it would be a plain jane single shot with no frills after someone is located with suitable actions. You can probably get in cheaper with black poweder muzzleloaders. I have about $400 in parts for mine that I put together. Another member here built his own for less than $50. Eight bores are much easier to find, cheaper and probably a better all around hunting rifle.

You can get the 30mm barrel section for
$250 to build 2bore with, from BigSky. We got fellas checking on making break action to use them.I can supply cases in a little while.Might be possible for
us to set up for about2 grand if you do your own work.
You will be able to get long 4bore barrel from
Badger in little while for $35O.I am going to \use State Arms action for $850 to do load work.
Can get 4bore bullets from Naval Ordnance.So we
will get them going for little less doing our own work.I can supply these cases also in a little while..Ed

Ed, Someone told me there is a book for converting a 20 gauge H&R to a .600 BPE. Do you know anything about this.

Also, thanks for doing all this very interesting work and sharing your findings with us.

Jerry

If you rechamber a 20ga original barrel to 600 I don't think it will clean up chamber properly at the neck..
It will at the base.Of course you could rebarrel,making sure barrel was heavy enough.

45LC over on singleshot forum, has made a poor mans 600 from 20 ga NEF/H&R 20 ga by using heavy brass 20 ga cases and the heavy barrel version. Uses heavy bullets, If I remember
right he got 750 gr up to 1600 plus and was
planning on more as he got loads developed.Ed.

I have a little info you folks might find
interesting about the process and math I use in changing and designing cases.

I use a formula for the taper of the sides of the case, that is the length divided by the
change in diameter in thousands(as a whole number). This gives a figure called "length
per .001 change in taper". This is figuring
taper on both sides.It is a comparison system.

Example of how it works - BMG has length on sides from groove to shoulder of 2.76 and
change in diameter of .086, so dividing 2.78
by 86(whole number) you get .032 in length
per .001 inch change of taper. For comparisons
taper pin reamers are .048, 600NE is .058,
30-06 close to BMG, 600 OK case I have .210,
my 458HE .069, and my 700HE .087.

So in the process for example of changing
BMG brass to 700HE I change taper of brass from steeper .032 to .087 shallower taper.This
simple math make case design real easy.
You can see a case and relate it to a mathematical figure to compare with others.Picture below shows the transition from BMG to 700NE.

First case BMG, 2nd is case with belt and base formed, and 3rd is 700HE after using annealing
and expanders or fireforming. Right 3006
for comparison.Ed

ED
What is the oal of the loaded round for the 700 H.E.

RNS

Judging by the BMG case, it looks like about 4.5". What do I win?

RNS & Bwana- With that 1000 gr bullet it is
4.5 inches COL.It could be seated deeper to be 4.25 long..The ideal bullet for the bore
relative to diameter and shape, would be about
1150 grains, with a shape like the 600NE
bullets.That would give a length of about 4.70 inches.For proper penetration the 700 cal needs longer bullet like that. Things work out, in a while I will have an action to put barrel on and show what it can do.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scott:
The Shot Show gossip mill says that Butch Searcy is building a double 4 bore rifle. No details but this could be a very interesting development.

Ken Owen has built four bore side by side double rifles and hunted with them. He made four of them, they are all in the possession of collectors. These were best guns, made by Ken from scratch. There was a writeup in Double Gun Journal a few years back.

Ken's guns has same bore as the 4bore we are doing,in fact the Naval Ordnance bullets
were made for him originally I understand, that we plan on using also. The brass we are making will work in his guns also.Ed

Ed,

Have you thought of getting a 460 Wby for yourself. I was thinking it should be ideal for indoor use on mice, rats etc

Mike

Mike375
What do you think he uses his 458HE for?
The 700 is for crats, coons and possums.

Ed
Everybody that's seen that 2-bore case you gave me have all said the same thing "holy f... that thing is huge"
Thanks again.

Mike- Tailgunner said the day he was here
two weeks ago, with the scoped Ruger
458HE in his hand pointed out the window, "Points real nice". It is 16
lbs heavy, but balanced right.So I figure it makes a good mouse gun. Not underpowered,as I
anchored two deer and a pine stump with one
shot a few years ago. 400gr barnes spitzer
at 31-3200 fps.Ed.