Is there any reason why a person couldn't have a 50-90 Sharps throated for jacketed bullets and load it to 48-50k psi?

Given a 28"+ barrel could it get close to original 500 Nitro Express velocity?

depends on the rifle and the brass ..
in a modern action (just say enfield 1917 for arguements sake) and godo brass (not bertram) and you could probably make 500 express, NOT nitro express, loadings .. a 50/110, however CAN be loaded up pretty well.

a 435 at 1800 fps .. probably
a 570 at 2150? no sir

The 50-90 and 50-110 Sharps are the same case. Maybe you are thinking I meant 50-70?

Edited for clarification.

A 50AK will do 1865fps with 525 grain bullets out of a 2.1" case and much shorter barrel at a supposed 40k psi (Buffalo Bore factory ammo in my rifle) just as a point of reference.

What's wrong with this one? (from COTW):

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
What's wrong with this one? (from COTW):

Dies & brass cost more than .500 NE.

What is the skinny on 50-140 Sharps brass?
I will look in the Buffalo Arms catalog.
Any quality issues, with any certain make?
Strength of head of 50-140 versus 500 NE: Any issues?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
What is the skinny on 50-140 Sharps brass?

Jamison is better than Bertram and cost less. I haven't sectioned a case. They run $2.50-$3.00.

The 50-90 is available for Jamison and Starline for $1.20-1.50. Dies are $35-50 vs. $80 for the 500 NE and $$$ for the 50-140. The unfired case holds about 114 grains of water.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ralfboy,

you have been misinformed RE 50-90 VS 50-110. The 50-90 is a Sharps original cartridge, 2.5" long.

I'm not confused, there are 3 loadings of the Sharps cartridge as well. 50-90, 50-100 and 50-110.

quote:

The 50-110 is 2.4" and is actually three loadings on the same case. The 50-110-350, the 50-100-450. and the 50 Express, aka 50-110-300.

I'm aware of the Winchester case and it's permutations.

quote:

They can be confusing to the newcomer.

Not new, and certainly not confused.

quote:

In a Ruger #1 or equivalent strength action you can easily replicate .500" NE 3" power levels.

That's what I'm thinking.

I'd rather not chamber a rifle for the 50-140. I think the the 50-90 has a better chance to maintain a supply of brass.

reread your post. There is no such thing as a 50-110 Sharps factory loading. Read the book, the three separate 50 loads are for the 1886 Winchester. When they came out Sharps had been out of business as a rifle builder for five years. So you have established your qualifications here after all.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
reread your post. There is no such thing as a 50-110 Sharps factory loading. Read the book, the three separate 50 loads are for the 1886 Winchester. When they came out Sharps had been out of business as a rifle builder for five years. So you have established your qualifications here after all.

Rich

I'm not trying to be an ass.


http://www.accuratepowder.com/...nch%20page%20370.pdf

http://www.accuratepowder.com/...0368%20and%20369.pdf

http://74.125.113.132/search?q...=us&client=firefox-a

Ralfboy,

There you go mixing up fact with AR experts knowledge (you will notice these two things seldom agree). You have been told my the AR experts that there is NO such thing as a 50-110 Sharps so your factual evidence is obviously wrong!

I think you could easily get 5000+ lb-ft in a Ruger No1 and perhaps even achieve the old 500 NE 3" level of performance too. I say go for it.

Quickload has this to say:

Case length: 2.49"
Case volume: 114 gr H2O
Woodleigh 570gr SN
COL: 3.275"
83gr of IMR3031
2149 fps
56000 psi
Barrel length: 26"

So it would appear that the 50-110 Sharps should be up to the task of duplicating a 500NE 3" in a Ruger No.1 provided that the brass is strong enough (and I would think modern brass should be).

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Ralfboy,

There you go mixing up fact with AR experts knowledge (you will notice these two things seldom agree). You have been told my the AR experts that there is NO such thing as a 50-110 Sharps so your factual evidence is obviously wrong!

I didn't post to start shit.

Quickload tends to overestimate pressures in straight wall cases. The standard fix is to add an additional 7% to the case capacity when calculating a specific load's pressure/velocity. It works, but you need to cafefull with compressed loads.

Ralfboy,

I have heard that said of Quickload. I suspect the simulation I posted is pretty accurate. It works for the 405Win, 458 Win mag, and the 500A2 to +/- 15 fps.

Good luck with your project.

well poop! If Accurate Arms, which has been in existence for nearly thirty years isn't THE source book for Sharps cartridges of the 1870-1881 era; who can you trust? I also have the second edition of their reloading guide right here in front of me, and if their load data was arrived at with the same degree of professionalism and thoroughness as their research on the Sharps line of cartridges I would be scared to use any of it. I say that (only) partly tongue in cheek, since I know Bill Falin who did the load testing well in the first edition.

You need to buy, beg, borrow, or steal a copy of Frank Sellers book "Sharps Firearms" and read the chapter on Sharps Cartridges.

1. Accurate and the other manuals keep trying to give Sharps credit for the 3.25" cases. They are a post Sharps Rifle company invention. Brass could not be drawn (in this country) to that length with any consistency.
Sharps loaded their ammunition almost exclusively with paper patched bullets, which were only seated .140-.200" deep into the case. That is where the myth of the high powder charged cartridge came from. In the 1890's the labor cost of the paper patch bullets became prohibitive, combined with a shift to smaller calibers for target work led to the wholesale switch to "naked" aka grease groove bullets.

2. Sharps only loaded two lengths of .50 caliber cartridge cases. The 50-70 military round, and their 2.5" aka 50-90 case. As with the modern sporting cartridges there were a couple different loads. Powder charge and bullet weight varied, but their was only one case length.

You need not take my word for it: call Shiloh Rifle at 406-932-4454 or C Sharps Arms at 406-932-4353 and ask. They are the two US Sharps rifle builders, and offer all of the authentic, original calibers.
You can build a rifle chambered for the 50-2.5" case and fit 110gr of black powder in it if you paper patch bullets and seat them shallow as the factory did originally. I've owned 74's, a '77, and a couple Borchardts.

regards,

Rich