Hey 470 Mbogo- Nice web page and very useful test information. My question is, based on your testing, what is your opinion of the .458 WinMag. Unless I was reading all of the various charts wrong a 500 grain bullet at 2,160 was able to hold its own pretty well.

Thanks in advance
Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ready_on_the_right:
Hi ready_on_the_right,
The tests done with the .458 at 2150 fps do show a very capable cartridge. The only problem is that it's hard to achieve with the 458 Winchester because of case volume. As far as the 458 Winchester I think with todays quality of bullets that by dropping to 450 grains to get the velocity up to the 2150 to 2250 fps range it is a very good cartridge. You would probably have to handload to achive this goal. A 450 grain .458 bullet still has a sectional density of .306 which is just about the same as a 300 grain bullet in .375. Both Swift and Barnes make this weight of bullet. You could also look into GS custom and Woodleigh. With these bullets at 2250 fps the 458 could be considered a totally different cartridge from the one that received all the bad press. 470 Mbogo

Thanks for responding. The GS 450gr was exactly what I was considering. With this bullet I feel the .458 would be a very formidable round and I will need to walk before I run in the Big Bore arena! It may be time to go hunting for another Mauser action.

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

Ready On The Right---470 is right, but now turn that .458 a little to the Jack Lott specs and you have enough room for powder to make that 500 grain bullet reliable. The expesence is around $100 bill and like the .357 caliber pistol you can now shoot 458 light loads or the 458-Lott heavy loads, and even light loads in the 458-Lott as well.

Hey Sidecar I've been reading about the Lott for awhile, however I wasn't sure it would fit in a 98'

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

ROTR,

You are correct, fitting a 458 lott in a mauser 98 isn't a simple re-chamber, that is unless you can live with a lott in the pipe, and 458 win mags in the magazene.

I had a 458 lott, and was very pleased with the round. I'm now having John Ricks make me a 458 on a 2.5" 404 case, very similar to the 450 G&A. The downside is I can't shoot 458 win mags in it, but I don't plan to take it to Africa, so that's a moot point.

Thanks Paul I've always listened to your experiences on these topics(model 98's) and big bores. I honestly don't want a Lott right now, I figured a .458 would be a good initiation into the Big Bore world, and I'm developing a fetish for the Mauser action. I am completely inexperienced in this area. I shot badger's .458 one time(didn't want to waste his expensive ammo!)

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

It has always been my opinion that the 458 win mag should never have been loaded with a 500 gr bullet in the first place! One must remember that when the 458Win mag came out it was to replace the 450NE 3 1/4". The 450 NE 3 1/4" is loaded with a 480 gr bullet, at 2150 fpe. Lower chamber pressures, and better balanced cartridge powder capacity, to barrel volume. But the 450 NE 3 1/4" would not work in a bolt action, and the ammo was not available anyway, hence the 458 Win Mag, in the Mod 70! The 500 gr bullet was a marketing ploy to make it look better than the 450 NE 3 1/4". Most folks in 1955 did not have the means to find out the advertized velocities were a bit optimistic, to say the least. I have found that the 458 Win Mag works better with a 400 gr bullet, than anything else. I happened on this quite by accident. I was playing with a 458X2" American, and happened to only have the 400 gr bullets on hand when I picked up a Ruger No1 458 Win Mag, so loaded them in it! Much to my delight the pennetration was much better than the 500 gainers, and the recoil was so lightened that it made the rifle a pussy cat to shoot off the bench. This rifle printed cloverlief groups at 100 yds with those loads, and like the 458 Lott, I could shoot my 458X2" rounds in the 458 win mag chamber!

The 500 gr bullet is proper for the 458 Lott, but like 470 Mbogo, I think it is too heavy for the 458 Win Mag. The 480 gr Woodliegh works like a charm, however, in my rifles! Mine are all chambered in 98 mausers, except one, and that is a Ruger No1.

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DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

What's your opinion of the 400gr.speer bullets driven at top 458 win.mag.velocities?I use them for plinking,etc. but wonder about how well they would hold up on large north american game at top win.mag.(not 45/70)velocities.