Just some idle thoughts and I sure don't want to start a war here but IF - and I do say IF - a man were to want to build a double rifle, and he did not wish to have one like everyone else's rifle - what say you to a double rifle built to take the 45/125 case??? This is the old 45/120 or 45/125 Sharps, basic case is 3 1/4" long, same external but different wall thickness hence the 120 or 125 gr case capacity. Straight case with wide rim so loading and extraction would be a breeze. The cases are readily available and don't cost an arm and a leg plus the wealth of .458 dia bullets, etc. What I would try to do would be duplicate or better the original .450/400 Magnum Express with its Nitro loading driving a 400 gr jacketed bullet at 2150fps. For comparison, consider the .458 Lott/.450 Watts. As originally developed by the P.O. Ackley loading data lists the .450 Watts as driving a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps. This was with a case with less capacity than the 45/125, using 108gr of 4831 I believe. Searcy today tests and regulates his rifles with a similar load I am told. We have whipped the 45/70 to death at least a thousand time on this forum but for the life of me I can't think of a single reason why the case the bullet comes out of has a thing to do with the down range performance and if you can push a 480-500 gr bullet out of a 458 hole at 2200-2500 FPS what difference does the head stamp have on anything?? Would the beastie being popped know if he was shot with a 470NE or a 45/125? I would really like to know your opinion and especially if anyone knows any detail of such a project.

the book you need is
"building double rifles from shotgun actions" by W. Ellis Brown. Brownells carries this book.

There's quite a bit more than caliber selection on deciding and FINISHING to build one of these.

i don't recall which one, but i thought one of the larger 45/something or sharps was a .451 bore.. probably wrong there.

I had often thought of making a 45 rcbs double rifle, and with remington "around the corner" on their 45/70 double, I just didnt

I myself am in the project initiation steps of building a double... reamer on order, dies on the way, barrel on the way, correct (?) shotgun on the way, and big ole block of annealed 4140 sitting on my desk to start work with... as I am making my monoblock.

A fairly talented bodger could probably reuse the shotgun block, ream and tap the barrels, fit some bushings, make the front sight, rear sight, reuse the hanger and the ribs, and have a 1/2 a chance of getting it to regulate to basketballs at 50 yards...

in the end, no one will care what caliber your double is (unless you want to sell it) they will just be wowed by the cool factor
jeffe

jeffeosso,
the .45 Sharps calibers are all .450 land diameter and .458 groove diameter +/- manufacture variances.

I am somewhat doubtful of the ability of any .45/sharps caliber brass to hold up to a charge capable of propelling a 500 gr bullet at over 2000 fps.

I am very doubtful of the need, however, to shoot anything with bullets moving that fast anyway. They will all die just fine with a 550 gr bullet at 1400 fps which is fine and dandy with lot of room to spare in any .45 brass you choose.

Brent

Mr. Searcy made at least one 45-120 double on a converted shotgun action (re-heat treated and with a third fastener if I remember correctly). It was regulated with the Barnes X 400 grain bullet if memory serves. Morris Hallowell had it for sale for a while but it sold last year I believe.

My only question would be the sharps brass. Loads equalling the .458 lott/.450 watts loads would probably be too much for it. Now if you used diminished loads, that could work.

For what it is worth...around 1983 I rebarreled a Ruger No 1 to 50 3 1/4 Sharps cartridge. At that time .500 Nitro brass and components were rarer than the guns themselves. I called and talked to Jim Bell of Bell Brass. His statement to me was that his brass would take any load that I would care to put in it. I was easily able to duplicate the .500 Nitro ballistics and the brass lasted longer than I had the gun. I think that modern 45-120 brass would be fine for loads in the 21-2300 fps. Again just my experience and my opinion. I do like the fact that brass is very cheap, dies are relatively cheap and you can even use a 45-70 shell holder which saves you additional $!!

For what it's worth, I did a bit more research - and it has been done already. I'll post up some data for all to see. As for the brass, if we were speaking the old ballon head cases I could see your point but with the stuff from BELL or from StarLine I don't see it as an issue.
As a C&P item:
"OK you smith types, in my quest to get my hands on a double rifle without haveing to choose which of my children to sell, I'm back to asking questions about converting a double bbl shotgun into a double rifle.

Please examine the rifle at the following URL. http://www.hallowellco.com/double.htm

Please look at both the written description, and the pictures. Here's the text:
Quote:

B. Searcy & Co. Boxlock Ejector Double Rifle .45-120 Sharps $4,895

[nitro load]

24" SxS barrels with doll's head third fastener, quarter rib and adjustable

rear large-aperture peep sight. 14 3/8"pull from DT to black Decelerator pad. Figured, oil-finished French walnut with PG/spl, and inletted rear swivel base. Light scroll engraved, blued Browning BSS receiver.

Regulated for 95gr 4831 and 400gr .458" Barnes X bullet (4700 ft-lbs muzzle energy). Weight: 11 lbs, 8 oz. 99%blue. In Browning hard case
Here's my interpretation of what I read and see. A 'smith took a Browning BSS in 12 guage, and inserted .45-120 sleeves. Looking at the breech, it appears that the sleeves are epoxied into the original 12 gauge bbls. Now it seems to me, that if this interpretaion is correct, this would not be a terribly difficult task. If it's not terribly difficult, I would think it shouldn't be a terribly expensive proposition.

Putting 'expensive' in context, I could immagine the sleeving operation to cost as much as $1000. On the other hand, it's pretty difficult to find a double rifle (that started out as a double rifle) for less than about $10,000.

I mention that it appears to me that the sleeves were epoxied in, because I have seen it written in several places where people are using AccraGlass to secure the sleeves in resleeved rifles. Apparently this is a reasonable and widely accepted practice.

So... whady'all think? AND, where would I start to look for somebody to do this kind of work. It's not particularly difficult to come up with good double bbl shotguns these days. If I could get the bbls resleeved to rifled bores, I might very well be 'outta control'. I can envison several variations - besides double rifles, how about one rifle and one shotgun bbl? Or two different rifle cartridges or calibers?"
Ok, given that we have a 400 gr .458 bullet leaving a 24" barrel pushed by 95gr of 4831 and giving us 4700Fp/ME - what velocity are we speaking of here? My calculations show ~2300FPS; calculated as 2300*2300/450240*400=2300. Am I in the ballpark here? If so, it looks a bit better balisticaly than I had thought. What say you to this as a double rifle for dangerous game?

It's kinda funny reading about cheap brass and dies in relation to a double rifle project Even expensive brass and dies are a minor cost compared to the entire project.

If you have the full machine shop and skills to pull the project off, then it's just a matter of putting in the many hours required to complete the task. If you don't have the fully equiped shop, you could buy a spanking new Searcy for less than the cost of the tools, and have a better product than you could build.

The Searcy is the rifle I mentioned in my earlier post, although I don't think you will still find it on Hallowell's site.

I think you are underestimating the work Butch put into that gun. The action was re-heat treated and a third fastener added. I believe that he made a new monobloc for the barrels, but you would have to check with MacD37 for the details.

You can read more here.