Gentlemen,

I had my first humbling experience at the range today. I was doing a little playing around, shooting 5 gallon pails with a variety of calibers, recording the differences in effect for posterity on my camcorder.

Well, I fired a test shot with my .375 H&H at a paper target. I was testing the POI of the open sites as I had never used them on this rifle. That was the last shot I was able to take with that rifle as the bolt would not open. I guess it was a pretty hot load! After a couple hours in below zero temperatures, I was able to get the bolt open but the cartridge was stuck in there. I could plainly see that there was no primer and that the primer pocket was almost double its normal size. There was brass stuck in the ejector hole, and the extractor was broken. The buddy I was shooting with managed to remove the brass at home with a cleaning rod and a couple hard raps.

Here's the kicker....that shot was the first one out of a fresh box of Remington Safari Grade factory ammo, with the 300 Grain Swift A-frame!!!!

Any opinions on what I should do with the rest of the box??

Should I be contacting Remington for a new extractor?

Thanks for any advice.

Canuck

[This message has been edited by Canuck (edited 03-11-2002).]

If this were me, I would telephone Remington and tell them. It may be a hot batch. Open one of the cartridges and weigh the powder.

Am certainly glad the damage was confined
to the gun.
Absolutely contact Remington. They damn sure want to know about errors like that. Most likely they will want you to send them the box of ammo. Be sure to get an agreement from them before letting go of the evidence as once they have the cartridges you have no way to prove the damage was done through their negligence. You might want to let us know the lot number of the box of ammo you bought, who knows, one of us might be setting on a box of little bombs too.

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If Elmer didn't say it, it probably ain't true.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will definately call them tomorrow and see what happens.

For all interested in checking their ammo, the number stamped on the inside of the box is M30 NC0023.

Canuck

This is most likely not the case, but before getting too hot and heavy on Remington check out your rifle barrel very closely for any bulges. Look through the bore and look for shadow rings and run your fingers up and down the outside of the barrel trying to feel bulges. Also, slant the barrel to a light and see if the reflection of the light is in a straight line down the barrel. If there is a bulge the light line witl deviate from true. I mention this only because if there was something in the bore when you fired, and it doesn't take much, that could have caused the overpressure problem also. However, it would most likely have left evidence on your barrel as a slight bulge at or near the point of obstruction. Good luck and I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Good point, Big Bore. I have heard of a lost patch causing the same problem.

In this case there are no bulges on the barrel that I can find, and I had just run a dry patch through the bore that morning. The bore was shiny like chrome.

I talked to Remington this morning, and they seemed very helpful. They will go good for any repairs required, with my choice of gunsmith. After they look at the ammo of course.

Canuck

Glad to hear you're unscathed!

Please Keep us informed...

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

Something similar happend to me. It's not over, but Remington has been good about it so far.

Two comments:

1) This is a great reminder why we ALWAYS need to use safety glasses.

2) I'm not sure that I wouldn't keep a few of the shells from the box and put them in a second well-marked "Do not use!!!" box. It would be ashame if the entire box you sent was lost in shipping!!!

My $0.02

FFg

I wouldn't send them anything. Take both rifle, and ammunition to a local, great, gunsmith, and see if he can figure out what is going on...
g

By the way, the reason for my comments are that regardless of the load, you want an independent expert to determine the damage, if any, your gun suffered by the ammunition.

The ammunition is irrelevant, at this point.

What is relevant is the damage done to your rifle, and, if it's a defective rifle, or ammunition. Sounds like a double charge to me, if that's possible with the garbage powders I've found remmington to use...
but, that was a long time ago...

gs

By the way, see an attorney first. You have different laws, and, you need advice on liability laws, in international commerce, that I can't give you from here.
gs

Socrates "gunsmith" comments are likely quite relevant.

My three best guesses are ammunition that is overlength for the chamber (bullet seated too far into the rifling), excessively fast powder for cartridge and bullet, and the slim chance of debris in the barrel.

Typically you can't double-charge with rifle powder as you can with fast powder in a pistol case, because a double charge of rifle powder in a rifle case will be greater than the interior volume of the case. It's still possible in some cases to put in enough in excess of the proper amount to produce overpressures.

How about some information on your rifle?
Custom or factory .375 H & H?

Glad you weren't hurt.

Just curious, do you have a sensitive scale with the capacity to weigh whole cartridges? Is so, I would weigh all of the ones you have left, and compare to cartridges from a "known good" lot. If any are off in weight, make sure you keep at least one when you send samples to Remington. Of course I suppose brass itself could give you quite a bit of variance...

Another thing I wonder, instead of an overcharge, perhaps the wrong powder was used??

Good luck with the whole thing.

Todd

[This message has been edited by Todd Getzen (edited 03-16-2002).]

I think I would check to see if rem. has a warranty repair station you can go to that does rifle repair and show them your stuff in person before mailing anything. Remember, the only one really looking out for you is YOU, so document any mailings, conversations, contact people,etc..Hopefully you will have a happy ending to tell us about!

Canuck,

What's the status on your 375? I wouldn't mind at all seeing the Bill Leeper 416 Taylor, but I know you wanted to take the 375.

Don

Canuuk,
There is an article in Precision Shooting this month about high pressures in extremely cold weather. The powder loses its elasticity in cold weather (below 0) and the granules break apart from the primer blast. This causes more surface area to be exposed to the primer heat and the powder burns a lot faster. Kind of like wood chips burning faster than a whole log.
Todd

Hi guys,

Sorry for not getting to your questions, I was out of town for a few days.

FFg: You are right about the safety glasses. If I were shooting a pre-64 Model 70 I would probably have to start shooting lefty. I plan to hang on to some of the ammo, just in case something goes awry with shipping.

Socrates: I just dropped my rifle off at a local, great gunsmith yesterday eve. Remington was OK with using my choice of gunsmith, as there are no Remington reps within 500km. So far it looks as though it will just need a new extractor.

SDS: It is a factory Winchester Mod. 70.

Todd: I haven't had a chance to do any measuring/weighing yet. I hope to pull one apart tonite and see what kind of charge it has. I will try weighing some full cases versus some from another box I have (different Lot#).

pshooter: Unfortunately I live in the boonies! I will definately document everything.

Don G: I will probably get it back from Bill Leeper in a week or two. Bill doesn't think there is anything seriously wrong (although he hasn't checked the headspace etc yet), and is impressed by the strength of the Win 70 and Rem 700 actions in this type of situation. I still may take my .416 now though, as I am not sure I will still have complete faith in the ole .375. We'll see how it shoots when I get it back. I also haven't recieved the GS Custom bullets yet, so that may not influence my choice of calibers either.

Boltgun: I have read about that in the past as well. I am sure it wasn't a factor this time as I had just arrived at the range. I just had time to shoot my .416 once, then the incident with the .375 occured. The ammo and gun were still warm from home. Over the next couple hours I shot my 6.5 Gibbs, .300 WM, a 470 Mbogo and a 500 A-square with no problems.

Thanks guys!

Canuck

Canuck:
Great to hear you have an independent source looking at your gun, that isn't on Remmington's payroll.

You know I passed on an undercost bullet puller, since, in the 5 years I reloaded, alot, and, the 20 something years I've shot, I've never had a use for one.

Certainly somthing to think about, but, on the other hand, where are those vice grips;-)?

All I can say is I remember using 44 special, lead 240-250 remington ammo in a 2 inch bulldog, in the 80's. At 7 yards, I couldn't keep the ammo on a main size target, kicked like hell, and was about 650 fps.

My handloads, I think I used Unique, gave us 850 out of the same gun, about 5 inch groups,
recoiled far less, and had much less black smoke all over the place. Overall, that was the last time I used Remmington factory ammo.

I got the distinct feeling they picked the cheapest powder around, and, used a bullet that was too small for the bore it was intended.

I liked my stuff much better...

gs

[This message has been edited by Socrates (edited 03-18-2002).]