I am looking at a Weatherby Mark V that has been rebarreled to 458 Lott. I am new to the big bore game, I have my heart set on a 458 Lott, but what do you guys think of the Wby (Made in USA) actions. It sits in a very nice fiberglass stock, does not look factory. Thanks, Shawn

Some questions for you.

1. Have you shot anything close to the recoil of the Lott>

2. If so. how did you like it.

3. What does this rifle weigh?

4. Can you live with a push feed DR?

5. What is the ball park ($$), this rifle is in?

Just somethings to think about.

Keith

Keith,

I used to own a Remington Custom Shop rifle in 375 H&H. The recoil was not an issue, I do not think it will be now. Not sure of the exact weight but it is hefty. Push feed or controlled is not a make or break point for me. The rifle is $1500. Thanks

Recoil of the Lott isn't like a 375.

There was a really nice Lott at Safari Outfitters in Millbrook.Might still be there.

Dan

Considering that you can buy a new CZ in .458 Lott for about $850.00, this is the route I would personally go (it is CRF). Also, the recoil difference as mentioned by others like woodmanDan, is night and day between the .375 H&H and the Lott -- and that is putting it mildly.

Considering you can buy a new Ruger RSM in 458 Lott for 1600-1700 dollars. IMO Weatherby sucks in the big bore department and the Ruger is twice the rifle and CRF to boot. Already mentioned in the thread, recoil difference between the Lott and a 375 IS NIGHT AND DAY, make sure you can handle it before you buy one.

Dirk

Ditto.....a Lott will wake you up....and I agree with Dirk...the RSM can be had for about $1700 or so NIB....put a pad on to adjust LOP to you and a new trigger ($75) and you will have a fine rifle. As you start shooting it, you can smooth it up a bit...but they're workable right from the box.
There's $.02 from me....

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I like the Wby actions, and the rifle would be a fine choice, but I'd say take a look at the CZ before you buy the MkV if for no other reason than to get a different take. If you still like the Weatherby more, buy 'er!

quote:

Also, the recoil difference as mentioned by others like woodmanDan, is night and day between the .375 H&H and the Lott -- and that is putting it mildly.

I would like to re-emphasize that point also.

I went up to a 416 Rigby from a pussycat 375 and found I couldn't handle the recoil.

I can only imagine the Lott is worse. I wish I never would have sold the 375. But I am replacing it with a 9.3x64 Brenneke. It is even more enjoyable to shoot than the 375. With brass and ammo difficulties not factored in.

If I was to get a Lott, I think the suggestion of the CZ is probably the best one out there.

I wouldn't pay that much for a rebarreled Mark V.

If you're going to spend $1500 on a Weatherby, look for an unaltered, used .460 Wby. You can still load it down to .458 Lott levels (or .458WM, or even .45-70 levels), and it will be original.

I am a lefty, so I cannot use the CZ or Ruger RSM, but that is where I would look before considering a Mark V for this type of round.

George

Not to hijack the thread a little;

I just handled CZ's in 375 and 505;

Terrible workmanship!Horrible triggers,lousy loose bolts that I used snap caps in,that did not feed at all,and stocks like 2x4's.

I know there are lots of support here,but what gives?

I do believe these are early production runs,based on the dust on them.They are in a store in Maine that caters more twords deer and black bear.

I have the hated push feed 375,with a muzzle break!

It's a tack driver,with good balanced feel.

Hasn't failed yet.


So are the newer CZ's any better?

Not trying to disparage anyones choice of gun,just curious.....


Dan

Dan,

IIRC, the .505 is a relatively recent offering, so the gun couldn't be that old.

Compared to a Browning A-Bolt (I'm guessing that is what you have), the CZ does look like an "Iron Curtain" product, doesn't it?

George

Since the CZ gets pretty favourable reviews here,I was suprised how rough the two I handled were, metal wise...

I have a Jarrett pro hunter in 375,that I am very pleased with.

Dan

Ok, I guess I will keep looking for a rifle. I have looked at the CZ's but no go for me. Thanks guys.

quote:

Originally posted by 7STDUBBERU:
Ok, I guess I will keep looking for a rifle. I have looked at the CZ's but no go for me. Thanks guys.

If you really want a Lott & don't like the CZ, look for a M70 in 458winmag & have it rechambered & the mag. reworked. I did this but, worked fine, but found I couldn't handle the Lott's recoil for more than a few rounds. I sold it & had a 404jeffery built. The 42bores sre the best balance of recoil vs big game thump IMO.

If your not in a hurry to get the rifle then I would really watch the classifieds here and some of the other online auctions. Otherwise if needed quickly then CZ or the Ruger RSM are good options. Rodney.

What'reyagonna use it for? May as well ask, since it's not come up. I have a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win. Mag. -- I use it for plinkin' and sitting in front of the TV, fondling and drooling over it.

Your mileage may vary . . .

But there's a connection between use and what you come up with in a rifle. Recoil on the .458 Win. Mag. is not "abusive," but it sure as hell gets your attention.

Recoil on a 30-06 is in the 20 ft. lb. range.

On the 45-70 Govt. recoil is in the 40 ft. lb range.

.458 Win. Mag. 500 gr. bullet runs in the 60 - 65 ft. lb. range.

But if the gun fits and you have a decent recoil pad, wear a shooting vest with a shoulder pad it just basically hammers ya. It's not what I'd call "abusive." It doesn't "hurt" or "leave bruises," "try to jump out of your hands" -- but it definitely lets you know that you touched one off.

-- But then I'm a "recoil junkie."

quote:

Rodney H.{500Jeffery}
one of us Posts: 415 | Location: Cut-n-Shoot, Texas USA | Registered: 15 January

Are you really from Cut-N-Shoot ??? Reason I ask is because there's a character at the casino from there (least that's what he claims). His favorite line is:

"I'm not sayin' it gets hot, but I saw two trees fighting over a dog."

He claims Cut-N-Shoot is a wide spot in the road with a "beer joint" and the place got its name when the beer joint got robbed and the owner cut and shot the robber.

He's a colorful guy. NRA Life Member . . .

Concerning the .458 Lott - if the CZ is not for you then you might try the Ruger RSM. I have one, or rather, had one until my brother took a liking to it and is borrowing it for a while (I'll be lucky to get it back).

If you're not used to heavy recoil (IMO the .375 H&H is not in the heavy recoil class) and have to have something bigger then I might suggest a .416.

About Cut-N-Shoot - is Roy Harris still alive? You know, the guy who fought Floyd Patterson for the heavyweight title but lost?

Namibiahunter

Not to hi-jack anything here but yes
I live in Cut-n-Shoot, it was known for the beer joints/bars and yes Roy Harris is alive and lives just a ways down the road from me. Cut-n-Shoot is about 40 or so miles North of Houston {used to be further but Houston keeps growing} on HWY 105 between Conroe and Cleveland. Rodney.

quote:

Originally posted by woodmanDan:
Since the CZ gets pretty favourable reviews here,I was suprised how rough the two I handled were, metal wise...

I have a Jarrett pro hunter in 375,that I am very pleased with.

Dan

Guy on the range I met several weeks ago had a CZ box stock .375. There was no comparison to my late manufactured Mod. 70 Safari Classic.

Besides, I also shoot shoulder weapons LH and CZ doesn't care enough to cater to our market. Gotta go with Dakota or someone like that, and that's bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by woodmanDan:
Not to hijack the thread a little;

I just handled CZ's in 375 and 505;

Terrible workmanship!Horrible triggers,lousy loose bolts that I used snap caps in,that did not feed at all,and stocks like 2x4's.

I know there are lots of support here,but what gives?

I do believe these are early production runs,based on the dust on them.They are in a store in Maine that caters more twords deer and black bear.

I have the hated push feed 375,with a muzzle break!

It's a tack driver,with good balanced feel.

Hasn't failed yet.


So are the newer CZ's any better?

Not trying to disparage anyones choice of gun,just curious.....


Dan

What gives? $850.00 brand new. Yes, rough out of the box, but with a little money and elbow grease they can be slicked up considerably. So, I look at them as a great foundation for a DGR. I believe all out-the-box rifles need some attention anyhow. Plus, I have never shot a CZ that hasn't been accurate.

I wouldn't buy a Weatherby and especially not a Remington to use on dangerous game. My choices would be in this order; either a re-chambered Winchester Classic, a Ruger, or a CZ 550. An older long extractor Browning re-chambered to Lott would also be an excellent choice if you could find one.

I agree with the majority opinion, from personal experience with both calibers, that the recoil of a Lott isn't in the same league as a .375, it isn't a little more, it is of an order of magnitude more. Rifles of that class take a lot of practice to learn to shoot well, but it can be done. I would recommend shooting one before going out and buying one.

Good luck.

I see a lot of folks here extolling Ruger RSMs and trashing CZs I've had two Rugers (an M77 bolt and Ruger No. 1) and sold them both, under the "only accurate rifles are interesting" and neither met my standards (sub MOA). maybe I was unlucky. I have two Rem 700s and one CZ, all easily shoot under .75" at 100 yards. The fit and finish on my CZ 375 is fine, though it came out of the CZ custom shop as should any 505 Gibbs.




I guess I'll find out about the recoil difference though, Clearwater should get my rifle on Wed and will be reboring it to 470 Capstick. I agree with the person who said if you want a Weatherby in .458 caliber get the 460 Wby Magnum. It makes more sense and you can always load it down.




Chuck

Chuck, that's a beautiful stock!!

Thanks Whitworth



Chuck

chuck375 that is indeed good wood!

My RSMs (416 Rigby and 458 Lott) have their faults but they are indeed very accurate! I can't fault under 1 MOA in these calibers, most likely 3/4. A little trigger work and slimming of the the stock will put these rifles in the good to go catagory!

I like my CZ 375 H&H and ponder how I would/will customize it. A Macmillan stock is something I'm thinking about. A NE Oregon 375 H&H rifle done right has its appeal .

BTW the 458 Lott is my fav round. One can load from mild to "wild" as one wishes. The Lott is a great teacher of recoil tolerance. Work your way up to full 500gr loads and smaller centerfire rounds will be put in their place
There is a lot to be said about working your way up the recoil ladder, and I'm one to say been there done that. I worked up from a "terrible" 300 Win to a 338 Lapua and on to 416 Rigby and Lott. It is all about acclimation/determination and your desire to shoot XYZ well.

John

Thanks JKS, and I'm very glad your RSM's are accurate. My CZ handles well, but it is a bit heavy (especailly muzzle heavy) 10.25 lbs without scope, mounts or sling. The rebore should fix both of those problems. I'm guessing it will weigh between 9.5 and 9.75 lbs without scope, mounts or sling when it's rebored.

Chuck

My CZs are extremely accurate. i have no complaints. I sold my Rugers and purchased CZs after my bad experiences with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by woodmanDan:
Not to hijack the thread a little;

I just handled CZ's in 375 and 505;

Terrible workmanship!Horrible triggers,lousy loose bolts that I used snap caps in,that did not feed at all,and stocks like 2x4's.

I know there are lots of support here,but what gives?

I do believe these are early production runs,based on the dust on them.They are in a store in Maine that caters more twords deer and black bear.

I have the hated push feed 375,with a muzzle break!

It's a tack driver,with good balanced feel.

Hasn't failed yet.


So are the newer CZ's any better?

Not trying to disparage anyones choice of gun,just curious.....


Dan

What gives? $850.00 brand new. Yes, rough out of the box, but with a little money and elbow grease they can be slicked up considerably. So, I look at them as a great foundation for a DGR. I believe all out-the-box rifles need some attention anyhow. Plus, I have never shot a CZ that hasn't been accurate.

Like I said in my first post;

Not trying to bash anyone's gun...

Was the first time I had seen or handled a CZ...

But like I said the 2 examples I saw were not to good.....

You could not work the bolt of the 375 at all.I mean you could rotate it and draw it back an inch or so before it would jam.

I would assume these to be 2 bad examples,out of what appears to be a decent gun for the money/caliber.

No expert here,thats why I asked the question....

Dan

If you can't work the bolt back, then the rifle is defective and it never should have left the factory in such shape. That too would have turned me off.

My CZ worked fine from the start. I've heard their earlier ones were very rough. Once again I ordered mine with some extras (dual crossbolts, glass bedding, recoil reducer, barrel band, etc.) so mine was built by the CZ custom shop in the U.S. My action is very smooth but no wobble (not sloppy). I have 300 rounds through the barrel in less than 4 months shooting it, but now it's off to be turned into a 470 Capstick, it didn't have enough recoil lol It is a shooter though.



And I agree with you both, Woodman and Whitworth, if I had bought a CZ and it didn't function and they didn't make it good in record time plus add some free extras I would never buy one again.



Chuck

Nice shooting, Chuck!

I'm gonna have to agree with the others here about recoil. The 375H&H is a big pussycat. I shot mine for about a year before I decided to try on a 416 Rigby. I was really comfortable with my 375, able to shoot 20-30 rounds without issue, before I decided to step on up. The 416 puts you in another class of recoil, but IMO it's pretty managable. I started with light plinking loads with 350's and AA5744 and worked up to "full-house" loads. Now I love it. I don't go out and try to burn up the world with it, but it's fun to shoot. Off the bench it can be a beast, but off hand it's not that bad. I shoot everything from 350's at 1900fps up to 450's at 2350fps. I'm about ready to step up to a 450 of some sort, but I'm thinking it'll have to be a 450 Rigby when I do. I know there are more sensible options in a 450, but since when does "sensible" really matter.

A target from last weekend's shooting session. First serious I've shot with this rifle. The action and barrel have been fully bedded with an additional cross bolt and the trigger is at 3.25 pounds. Roger Ferrell did the work.



Edited to say:
I am bragging a little bit here, as I didn't think that I was capable of this group with this rifle, mostly because of the 4x scope. I'm used to shooting with a 8x or 9x scope.

Nice shooting! 450 Rigby is a great cartridge. Definitely a step up in recoil again ...

Chuck

I would definitely agree with an earlier post - find a good used .460 Wby -- I does have a little "bite" to it but I only weigh about 150 soaking wet and I have no trouble handling it.

May also want to consider a .416 Wby -- One rifle wrecking crew for PG or DG.

I am having AHR build me a 375H&H after having problems with Dakota Arms. AHR also does several upgrades to CZ rifles that may be of interest to you. They also will build you a rifle that you can add options to for a reasonable price and an approximate delivery date of three months with a CZ action or approx six months with a Granite Mountain action upgrade.

Wayne has been very reponsive during the ordering process and said my rifle should be done with the Granite Mtn upgrade in six months.

If I was going to buy a 458 Lott, I would opt for the Ruger Safari model, one of the new ones. It has all the bells and whistles of an African rifle, balances well and looks good..Glass it, cross bolt it, trigger job and your good to go...otherwise go with a custom or simi custom on a 98 Mauser or pre 64 win., neither of which is particularly costly in simi custom form..simply a rebarrel and a tad of action work, maybe add a composite stock as you seem to like them.

I think Weatherby actions are nice looking and strong. If I liked that rifle and knew the rebarreling work was correctly done I would buy it.

FWIW, I like both the Ruger RSM and Ruger No1 chambered in .458 Lott.

No one has mentioned what the Weatherby in question was chambered in to begin with. If it was the big action(30-378,338-378,378,416,460) then the rails will be to wide for the 458 Lott. Also, if it was the action designed for the correct case head, the feed ramp may need changed. This is, I am assuming a rifle that could someday be called upon to save you or a friend's life, so please make sure that the conversion has been properly done. One thing that is very rarely ever mentioned on these threads about Weatherby actions is the fact that they don't feed worth a damn without some serious work. I tried a pair of them and soon found them to be intolerable pieces of junk. Both of mine were U.S.A. made, one in 338-378 and one in 416. The 338-378 had to be loaded from the bottom. In other words, open floor plate, drop two rounds in, close floor plate and pray it feeds. The 416 was better, but twice in the two years that I owned it, a bullet jacket caught inside the receiver ring ruining the case or the round, jamming the action and basically reducing a 2000.00 rifle to a club. Ruger, CZ, Montana, Interarms Mark X's, Win 70 CRF models, and even a good old magnum Mauser are such a much better choice than a Wunderbee.

Joe