I'm usually not indecisive, but I just picked this up VERY RIGHT, and wasn't at all looking for one.

It currently has a pretty nice 300 Win Mag barrel on it, but don't need that....already got more than one.

So what should I turn it into?

Almost wish that it would have been a standard bolt face, and I would build this 375 Hawk/Scovill on it.

416/458?

Or does somebody have a Mark X complete standard .473 bolt they'd like to trade? Yeah, I've got plenty of military bolts already.

I'd convert a military bolt as I'm not too fond of the Mark X bolt anyway.

What about the .338 Win Mag. Nice all arounder. Or .416 Taylor.

i built one for Mike in 416 taylor.

you SHOULD build a 550 express!!!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:
.......So what should I turn it into?.....

What is wrong with making it a .470 Capstick?

What big bores do you have, or don't you have? Is it a long or magnum length magazine?

The two H&H based rounds I'd like to try are the 358 STA and the 416 rem mag.

375 Weatherby ?

Most definately a 358 Norma Magnum...
Cheers...
Con

.404 Jeff

.375 or .416 Taylor would be simple and useful, although a wildcat. These won't require a bunch of extra work either, cases are easy to come by, and are useful big game cartridges.

For most of the conversions mentioned above you will need a new magazine box, new follower and magazine spring from Sunny Hill, Ted Blackburn or Jim Wisner.

However, setting that aside I would consider a .550 Express. 700 grain bullets at 2200 fps would be just about right.

I also vote for the .404 J !!

Thanks for all the responses. The only things I've got that are 3/8" or larger is a 376 Steyr, a soon to be 375 Hawk/Scovill, and 45/70..

Not terribly interested in buying custom floorplate metal at this point, for this action.

The magazine box is a standard "short magnum/30-06" length, not extended.

I'm leaning towards something in .416, unless I just build that Hawk on this action with another bolt & extractor.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
I also vote for the .404 J !!

I agree, 404 is a must. For a light rifle 7mm wby mag, 8X68S or 9,3X64 are fine

Cheers
JOHAN

I vote for the 416 Taylor because I have always thought it one of the best cartridges in a standard length action. I think the 8 X 68 is too long and requires a big bolt face as well, too much work to convert. Second choice is 38 WinMag, a good all-around caliber as well.

,

I'm with Wink, magnum bolt face and standard action length - go for the .416 Taylor, a real easy conversion and you'll get alot of gun for the money!

Gerry

the 550 express fits in a "short mag 30-06 length" box... just needs some feeding work done (this is an over simplification)

Like I said, I built mike's 416 taylor on one of these... turned out fantastic... he bought an AB barrel and i set the barrel back .05 and recut the chamber.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
For most of the conversions mentioned above you will need a new magazine box, new follower and magazine spring from Sunny Hill, Ted Blackburn or Jim Wisner.

However, setting that aside I would consider a .550 Express. 700 grain bullets at 2200 fps would be just about right.

My .300 H&H is built on the standard length Mark X magnum action opened up. All the gunsmith did was weld on a magazine extension and modify the feed ramp area. He used the same bottom metal and I think the same spring. I had to put a follower in it from a 98 Mauser because mine got misplaced. It works fine and has never failed to feed. But I do see it might with a different cartridge. The .300 H&H is notorious for good feeding.

quote:

Originally posted by WyoJoe:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
For most of the conversions mentioned above you will need a new magazine box, new follower and magazine spring from Sunny Hill, Ted Blackburn or Jim Wisner.

However, setting that aside I would consider a .550 Express. 700 grain bullets at 2200 fps would be just about right.

My .300 H&H is built on the standard length Mark X magnum action opened up. All the gunsmith did was weld on a magazine extension and modify the feed ramp area. He used the same bottom metal and I think the same spring. I had to put a follower in it from a 98 Mauser because mine got misplaced. It works fine and has never failed to feed. But I do see it might with a different cartridge. The .300 H&H is notorious for good feeding.

Joe, that is because of the taper of the .300 HH case.

However, if you tried to use the same magazine for the 416 Rem Mag, 404 Jeff or 470 capstick mentioned above, a new mag box will be needed. Otherwise the cartridges will stack roughly on top of each other instead of staggered, particularly at the nose end. This not only reduces magazine capacity, it also sets the rifle up to pop cartridges out of the magazine when the bolt is moved rearward quickly.

Well, it looks like the 416 Taylor is the answer. It is one of those rounds that I've always wanted to try, and me thinks with 350 gr pills @ 2500 fps, an outstanding round for NA.

If you are going to build a 404 Jefferys on a Mauser action then figure on spending some big bucks on a custom made bottom metal as no one makes one and converting a .416 box is not 100% the way to go unless you can find one with very thick wall to be milled away and still allow for the releaf slot on each side, and therein lies the problem, not enough metal to allow for those releaf cuts.....I have spent all morning studing this and with todays boxes it simply cannot be done by modification.

I have practically been in conference with D'Arcy, being schooled over this several times and I think I may be getting their and am considering such a manufacturing project...I have fought this problem for 30 years and the bottom line is someone needs to manufacture a 404 box for a std. mauser action, a true copy in evey respect of the original Mauser bottom metal, and no one does...you can make some big boxes work, but they are never quite right....

The 404, according to D'Arcy is a "Tweenie" its in between everything else out there..

Ray,

Try George Sandmann over at Empire rifles on the right coast

www.empirerifles.com

He's young and will'n to take on projects that improve the species...He's out for quality and innovation. Try'n to make a name for himself.

I'd try him first,

JW

Ray can you use the factory Bottom metal on a 1909 with just a different box?

quote:

If you are going to build a 404 Jefferys on a Mauser action then figure on spending some big bucks on a custom made bottom metal as no one makes one and converting a .416 box is not 100% the way to go unless you can find one with very thick wall to be milled away and still allow for the releaf slot on each side, and therein lies the problem, not enough metal to allow for those releaf cuts.....I have spent all morning studing this and with todays boxes it simply cannot be done by modification.

I have practically been in conference with D'Arcy, being schooled over this several times and I think I may be getting their and am considering such a manufacturing project...I have fought this problem for 30 years and the bottom line is someone needs to manufacture a 404 box for a std. mauser action, a true copy in evey respect of the original Mauser bottom metal, and no one does...you can make some big boxes work, but they are never quite right....

The 404, according to D'Arcy is a "Tweenie" its in between everything else out there..

Ray,

With the above words of encouragement from both your and D'Arcy my question is what is the most practicle method of building a 404, from the action perspective. Only restrictions would be that it must CRF as I think it would be pointless to build one that wasn't. And I guess the other restriction is to keep your recommendation in a price range that that could readily afforded, say $750 ish for the action give or take.

Do you have any recomnendations? I to have picked a lot of smiths brains on this and and have yet to ccome up witha completly satifactory answer.

I just picked up a Mark X in 375 H&H. Since I already have two H&Hs I rechambered it to 375 WBY and love it. Adds about 150 - 200 FPS with equal or less recoil than the old H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Well, it looks like the 416 Taylor is the answer. It is one of those rounds that I've always wanted to try, and me thinks with 350 gr pills @ 2500 fps, an outstanding round for NA.

If a minimum amount of work needs to be done with this choice, it sounds like a good one.

Hey, fireball 168,

If you are really wanting the 375 Hawk/Scovill, then find yourself a GOOD gunsmith and have him weld up the bolt face, recut for a standard bolt face, a little heat treatment and you should be good to go.

This is not an uncommon practice ... it's just one you don't hear about too much these days with all the good firearms we have today. But, about 30-40 years ago, it was done quite often.

Good luck.

The 550 express is a natural and is deffinately a boomer. Short of that but it will need more cash is a 404 Jef. Feed ing has always been a problem unless whoever is doing the work really knows his stuff. Although I got mune to work 100% of the time and if I can do it then must bubbas can as well. Just go slow and understand why you are removing material.

Of course you could sell it to me and I'll have it into a 300 H&H in short order. I always wanted one.

Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the process

John

depending on your interest in wildcats.....(the 416 Taylor is a wildcat) one can also go with the more personal types.....such as the .458 necked to the 404 Jeff bullet.....call it the 423 Taylor if you will

then theres the 400 H&H short.....(a 411 taylor)

For those that just have a sadist attitude toward whitetails, theres the .429 vapotail....(a 300 grain 44 mag bullet in a 458 case for vaporizing whitetails)

Hell man....get creative!!!

oh heck, it's early and I am feeling feisty

what makes a wildcat?

1: no factory ammo? (including "obsoletes")
2: no headstamped brass?
3: no commerical (read remichester savaging, rugaby( gun maker makes a MASS produced rifle for it?
4: no saami/cip?
5: number in circulation?
(no number) you can NOT call a "single spec" a limiting factor, as that would hit the 500 jeff, the 404 jeff, the 505 gibbs and several others

Well, fellas, that means only a SELECT few big bores NOT wildcats....

let's roll back the clock just 20 years, and the following at total wildcats,
700 HH NE (might have been 25, as it's NEW)
600 HH NE (3 companies MIGHT make it, but HH refused to make any more)
577 nitro (3 makers left)
500 jeffe (yes, it was obsolete)
500 a2
510 wells
450 rigby (yes, it was obsolete)
458 lott
458 american 2" (now 450 marlin, for all intents and purposes)
416 hoffman (rem is factory now)
416 taylor
500/416 rimmed/aquare/champuis
404 jeffe (yes, it was obsolete)
376 steyr
338-06
708
260 rem
and ALL the x/378 weartherby rounds

of this list, only the 416 taylor and 510wells is "left" as all the others are now CONSIDERED factory, as even the 500 a2 is saami'ed, but wait a minute

factory ammo can be had from at least THREE sources, superior ammo,qaul cart, and stars and stripes ammo

headstamped brass is rather easy to come by, from qual cart and (soon) jamison/bell.. and bertram would headstamp it for $300 for a bunter

several names (win, cz, rem) WILL make it in their custom shop (just like 404 and 358 win)

The way *I* see it, the taylor is just ONE step away from being a perfectly "commerical" round, and that's saami/cip.

It is the SIMPLEST of all big bore to make, period. Take a 7rem, screw in a barrel, go hunting


jeffe

8,5x64.

It's been done for months now....

I was worried about it feeding, and wanted to see Mr. Kobe's work in person - so I sent him the stuff - and now have a 375 Hawk....and its a beauty(to me).

i've got a mark x in 30-06, real low #, down in the 50k range that i'm considering rebarrelling to 270 weatherby (had one of those in a mark v and sold it but still have ammo, brass, dies and want another). i wasn't quite ready to do that yet but the opportunity to save $50 having the bolt face opened could bump my schedule up.

roger

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:
It's been done for months now....

I was worried about it feeding, and wanted to see Mr. Kobe's work in person - so I sent him the stuff - and now have a 375 Hawk....and its a beauty(to me).

glad you finished her up...

and it seems all the naysaying on wildcats didn't affect you at all!!!

jeffe

I still get worried about 376 Steyr brass every now and again, and while I'm relatively certain that I've got a "lifetime" supply, being able to form the 375 Hawk brass out of any old 30-06 brass is awful nice.

The Hawk seems to have a distinct edge over the Steyr in my rifles, but the ProHunter's magazine length is restrictive, and the barrel's shorter too. I guess the "need" for both is questionable, but I was and continue to be, fascinated by the potential of the cartridge.

Here's a couple of pictures(sorry for the quality of the photos).

Shilen #4 contour, McMillan Mark X stock(one of the in stock $350 internet specials), NECG sights and trigger, military bolt with handle by Bob Oosterman, Kobe 2-position safety.

If its not a mag action already build a 338 Win Mag and don't look back. Great round, simple conversion.