Took my Winchester M70 Safari Express 458 Win Mag to the range last week. Shot some excellent groups with both softs and solids in 500 grains.

The downside is that the factory stock seems to give me a pretty good hit to my right cheek with each shot. I have a Leupold 1.5-5x 20mm scope mounted in Leupold QRW 1" rings and mounts.

I really want to use this rifle on my African hunt next year. How do I make it more comfortable to shoot?

Get higher (medium or high QRW) rings?

Get a new stock?

Have current stock reshaped?

Any thoughts and/or experience with this?

Thanks!

Tim

Have you considered shooting it off shooting sticks? It would be good practice and easier than off the bench.

Tim
please see this thread
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/.../113102905#113102905

If the winchester stock is hitting you in the face, it could be the rings, or your "cheekweld".. but that style of stock is designed for STRAIGHT back recoil, probably 90% in the shoulder, 10% in the face. the weatherby stock is about 70/30.

your stock is generally known to be a good scope design. Rusty has tehe same stock, which I really like.


Do you wear glasses? Are you looking through the top left corner (assuming you are a righty and single lense) ? if so, tip your head UP a little, and get the edge of your cheek off the top curve of the stock

bifocals? dunno, but I would expect you to shoot of the bottom, which could mean your head is rolled over, rather than lifted up.

Try reloading some rem405gr at 1800 and see how those feel?

push comes to shove, I would try higher rings first.

jeffe

I had the same problem with a model 70 in .416 shooting open sights. When i installed the scope it changed the position on my cheek weld slightly an eliminated the problem. I agree with Jeffe try some higher rings and see if the fixes the problem.jj

I always try to sit low at the bench, and get my torso and head to match as closeas I can the position they're in relative to the gun while standing. I see a lot of people hunched over at the bench, and it doesn't let the recoil roll anywhere. If it's ok from offhand, try looking more offhand on the bench.

When I have a gun that beats up my face, it is usually my thumb that is doing the actual beating. This isn't as obvious as it might seem and for a long time, I blamed the comb.

Anyway, for me the solution as been lengthening the pull with a butt pad of one form or another. A relatively simple test is to tape or find a lace on pad that will give you about 1/2-3/4" more pull length and see what happens. If it cures the problem, then make a permanent fix.

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Have you considered shooting it off shooting sticks? It would be good practice and easier than off the bench.

It does seem that rifles recoil harder when shooting them off the bench!

My 70 is too high for my cheek shape, I literally couldn't get behind the factory irons without scrunching my cheekbone down to where I would be afraid to pull the trigger (375 H&H). the rings are fine, I have the Leupold QR (not weaver) but can't remember the height off the top of my head. I have not shot it since changing the irons but I put about the highest front blade williams had (switched to a fiber optic) and got NECG to send me a new unfiled rear blade that is much higher.

just haven't gotten to the range in a few months, dammit.

Red

Thanks guys for all of the advice. I ordered some higher rings and will try that out to see if it helps. However, like Dago Red, I also feel like I have to scrunch down on the stock to properly see the iron sights.

I'm planning on hunting tuskless cow in Zim next year and would like to have the option of using this rifle with either the low power Leupold scope or the iron sights.

The recoil "face punch" is not really that bad for about 10 or so rounds. After that I start to really feel it. In any event, if I have to live with it, it would be OK for a hunt where you don't feel recoil anyway. Just uncomfortable from the bench. Also, now that I have my loads worked up, I will be shooting much less from the bench anyway.

Thanks again!

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
My 70 is too high for my cheek shape, I literally couldn't get behind the factory irons without scrunching my cheekbone down to where I would be afraid to pull the trigger

I had exactly the same problem with my Model 70 416 Rem Mag - the result was a headache after a couple of shots.

The cure - I now have a custom Monte Carlo stock which makes the rifle a pleasure to shoot.

IMO American classic style stocks are designed for guys with no necks!!

Higher rings, if you really press your cheek down on the stock.
This is often solved with an extra 1/2" length of pull, though. If the stock is a little bit too short, your shoulder is placed a little bit foreward when mounting, and then mooved backwards in the recoil. This will give you a slap in the face.

My CZ550 .416 is doing exactly the same thing. I shoot it with open sights. The drop on this stock is much more than any of my rifles. For emergency fix-up I put on a neoprene comb raiser, this works perfectly.

BTW, this stock is also longer than all of my other centrefire rifles, so I tend to disagree with the longer stock theories.

I actually hope to get a higher combed stock for this gun so I can have a tighter contact between stock and cheek, so the cheek get pushed rather than slapped. Just my theory.

Which I can try to prove if I ever get the gun back from the gunsmith!!

Frans,
the hogback CZ is designed to shoot from a "european" head held more vertically than most stocks sold today. it is designed for jaw/"chin" weld, rather than cheek.

longer stocks are effectively cast-off, and do make a gun feel far better than one that's too short.

jeffe

Try shooting from a standing support....I've seen a couple of guys at the local range that fastened a padded support on a pole and rested the rifle on that while then sighted it in.... decreases a lot of the felt recoil

The Winchester M70 Classic Safari Express of latest make before going belly up has a NEGATIVE DROP STOCK.

The comb is higher at the heel of the comb/butt than it is at the nose of the comb near the grip.

This is guaranteed to force the cheek down hard against the comb if "trying" to use iron sights as they come from the factory.

I would suggest an M-16 type handle and sight base for use with this negative drop stock.

It is great with scopes and medium height rings.

Few people have a skinny enough face to use that stock with iron sights.

I thought most monty carlo? stocks were lower at the front so as to move away from the cheek during recoil. ??
All U/O trap guns I've tried were miles too high for me and booted my cheekbone something awuful.
So when I went to iron sights on my M70 1976 458 WM, I thought it would be unusable, as it was obviously made for scope use.

Have to push down hard on the stock, but bench rest, sticks, or off-hand doesn't get me at all. Very strange. Now if I can just fix that little flinch.