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| One of Us |
Usability increases the value to the owner. why do you guys feel the right to regulate what others do with property they own? Get it. its not the Mona Lisa, its a rifle. | |||
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| One of Us |
Ah, I see. And I'm sure you use a Ming vase for a spittoon.  ------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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| One of Us |
Nah. It would increase its usability to the owner if that vase was used as a chamber pot. No one here believes they have the right to regulate what one does with his own property. What you are reading are people's opinions about modifying an original vintage rifle. There is another thread a going now that has pictures of an original 500 Jeffery. Only 25 of those were ever made. With the Rigby on this thread, I have no idea how many of those were produced, but I woould guess the number is 100 or so. And as far as condition goes, there are probably only a handful or 416 Rigby's out there in that good of a condition. So it is not surprising that the rifle sold for $32,000. However, as soon as holes were drilled in it for scope mounts, that rifle just became a lot less valuable. Putting 4 holes in it turned it into a piece that is not worth a lot to anyone. It may not be a Mona Lisa to some people, but to others it has much greater value than an old picture a fat chick with a gas-induced smile. Now I happen to like art of all kinds, so I would not be a fan of modernizing something like the Mona Lisa by taking a few pouinds off her, capping her teeth, and giving her a Hollywood smile. Likewise, I think it is a disgraceful to take a vintage limited run rifle and modernizing it. For $32,000, the buyer could have had one heck of a custom scoped bolt action built. So, why would anyone in their right mind take a piece of history and ruin its value? There are few of us that would flush $20,000 down the toilet, but that is essentially what the Rigby owner did (rumored to have done). That is why there are a more than fair number of comments on this thread. People are free to do what they want with their own property. But sometimes a person's actions defies all logic, and at those times they are fair game for comment. If it is true that the Rigby was drilled for scope mounts, both the owner and the gunsmith who did the work shouold not be allowed near any firearm, ever. They are obviously mentally deranged, and that would bar them from gun ownership. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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| One of Us |
In the last twenty-five years of studying classic custom sporting rifles I can say that the majority of these “Improved and Modernized†rifles have been done by folks who had no idea of the value or history of the rifle they were doing it to. It’s the same thing you see on Antiques Roadshow when the poor people are informed that their highboy is worth $50,000, had they not spent the money to have it refinished it would be worth $200,000. It was theirs to do with as they pleased, no argument there. I would hope that threads such as this might educate a few, realizing that not all will be so moved. | |||
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| One of Us |
fla3006 Do you have anymore pictures of the $32K Rigby ??? I have a picture folder I'm filling with original rifles of this era ..... Thanks !! | |||
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One of Us |
zimbabwe wrote:
I suspect that anything any of us might say will continue to befuddle zimbabwe. Too bad. I'm reminded of the old saying: "It's too bad ignorance isn't painful." May his lathe, mill, and wood rasp find less signifcant targets. Apparently we can't rely on an appreciation for history and art to keep such treasures safe from the Philistines. CB "In a question of right and wrong, never be neutral." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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One of Us |
PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM THE LIGHTER. From the looks of the pistures crack has invaded the upper class. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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| One of Us |
http://www.schwandtclassicarms.com/ | |||
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one of us |
Some beauties! Man would I like to mount a Leupold on this:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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One of Us |
Or what about this old saying: " Not all that glimmers is gold." The quantity of crap sold for hot money just for its stamping is quite considerable. The WR and Rigby mentioned in this thread is as far appart as a dinged up 1979 Ford LTD and a 1952 Thunderbird in mint condition. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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| One of Us |
I would say let us send it to the "Marvelous Christmas Cookie Stocker" for the "Total Package" AK | |||
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| One of Us |
fla3006 wrote:
I'm thinking a 36x dot in Weaver see-thru mounts. And a thumbhole stock. With muzzle brake. I mean, it's just a tool, right? Bent Fossdal wrote:
True words. On the other hand, when it *is* 'gold' it doesn't make much sense to me to nickel plate it just because it's mine to do with as I please, as some seem to suggest.... CB "In a question of right and wrong, never be neutral." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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one of us |
Recently had a similar disussion on a different thread about 'to refinish, or not refinish' vintage military mausers. I'm torn between the 'it's his property he can do what he wants' and the 'it's a sin' camps. One thing is for sure though; every time bubba strikes it makes my un-bubba'd more unique and valuable. | |||
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One of Us |
You guys are killing me! The fricken action was drilled and tapped from the factory, if they removed the bases and put plug screws in it would it make any difference? Using the auto analogy, back in the 80's Cadillac took the Chevy Citation platform, rebadged it as a caddy and it sold for sh*t. No collectors want them now or in the future. Lincoln did the same with a Ford Granada with the same results. Hell, W.R. even used the crappy looking $3 floorplate button extension! If one of the "Bubba's" had built a rifle that looked like this, the criticism would be endless. Amazing! DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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One of Us |
Are you a poser or a shooter? The same holds true for people with Ferraris. Some drive them and others just wash their garage(/safe) queens. I drive & shoot mine...... There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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| one of us |
Forrest, I would recommend a Leupold or Burris scout scope for that 600 NE.  | |||
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| one of us |
Ron, what rings? Aluminum Weavers? Or maybe a Weaver sidemount (would only require 4 holes)? Then I could also mount a peep on the other side (2 more holes). Or since it is a 600, maybe a Picatinny on the barrel with night vision for shooting over bait? Bubba knows! NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Moderator |
imho, the WR pictured was recovered from a potential trash bin, look at the HUGE ammounts of raised dents... not honest wear, but abuse... i have seen some REAL CRAP made in the late 50s and early 60s.. isn't that when roy W settled on his freakish stock design around very rare actions? here's what I think... someone saved the WR from the dustbin, and made it work. without knowing it's condition BEFORE is was improved, you can only speculate. Michael Petrov unaltered custom rifles are generally worth 1/2 their current value of parts, unless more or less pristine... however, a "pristine" m70 from the 50's is worth five times what an "honest use" one is today.. which is WHY THEY ARE COLLECTABLE opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| one of us |
What? Huhh? | |||
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| One of Us |
What? Huhh? is Right!! This Winchester feeding frenzee is to much.. I'll be building my 6.5x284 on..Let see.. We have Choices.. AK | |||
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| One of Us |
Sorry but you lost me there, what are you talking about, modern custom rifles? | |||
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| One of Us |
That makes two of us. | |||
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| Moderator |
funny how that could be lost... it's been said ehre enough "what's the value of my custom gun" if you bought a pre-64 action, sent it to d'arcy echols, and paid X for it, the street value would be about 50% X .. maybe.. pay someone 5K to build you a custom gun ... take it hunting ONCE take it to the tulsa gun show and see if you can get 50% X... you can't, and you know it the WR looks like a recovery, not a pristine example of a WR... AND its a 425WR, which means the FUGLY mag and a weird (not odd..weird) caliber with a ton of faults... fine, if I stubbled into a beat to death WR for the right price, even *I* might bring it back to a shooter.. which is what this rifle is, a SHOOTER... i, personally, have no use for a DGR that is not a shooting rifle... and if a guy wants tally rings and bases on it, great, it's HIS money... and if a guy thinks putting a scope on a 32K rifle is a good fit for him to have the rifle he desires, and then needs a scope to shoot it well... well, that is his business... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
I agree there is far too much worshiping at the throne of the english ,when it comes to rifles ....Even some of them must think so as they are moveing to America........A nation where Personal Property..Has been the mandate......It would be interesting to see some Rapper buy a Woodward shotgun, and go shoot rats in an alley with it ..I think that would be culturlly significant.......Seems like Pondoro wished his 416 had been scoped...Would that have detracted from its value??? I,m sorry for stiring the pot,,  but last night someone who should know better was lamenting how bad it was to trophy hunt a lion,,and talking about how it should be stopped...All because they were treasures and that they should be preserved.......And this person posts on AR....I like the Westly Richards better than the Rigby any way..holds more bullets!!! Better to kill more lions with !!!!.If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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| One of Us |
The conversation I was having was about classic (that’s older pre-war) custom rifles. Not sure what modern rifles have to do with anything. The John Dubiel Mauser pictured would have cost the owner around $200 in 1932 in the next few years he would have had a hard time getting half his money back on it. However, today that rife could not be bought for ten times what it originally sold for. The value of newer and older custom rifles are two and complete different things. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have never heard of a Darcy Echols gun selling for less than the cost of a new one. There is such a long wait to get a new one that used ones are snapped up quickly at premium prices. | |||
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| One of Us |
Winchester 52 action. $75 Niedner Barrel . $30 Shelhamer Stock . $175 Kornbrath Engraving. $35 Not mounting a modern scope. Priceless  | |||
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| One of Us |
Let me just state for those who think me a total ignoramis ,,,The Rigby is a beautiful rifle and yes it would be nice if someone would not mess it up......If the person spent 4,k on a AHR or Dakota, or even less on a Ruger or CZ or have one built up....And put a good scope on it . But personal property is just that....Personal.....My 2 cents worth .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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| Moderator |
the rifle in question, that STARTED this thread is on a 54 FN action.... and I totally agree, the question is how well the new was taken careoff before it gets old... the rifle in question appears to be a "save" as the stock looks like it was beat pretty badly and restored. However, about 8 years ago, if I stumbled over a 50s or 60s custom springfield, with holes drilled in the action (no matter how well done) I could get it for under 150 for the whole gun today, a receiver that would have been SCRAP then is getting 200 bucks... it's a gun, not a particularly desirable one, and it's in decent shape... pull the trigger, it goes boom.... and it will sell for several times what it was bought for jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| one of us |
Personally, I don't care what anyone does with their own property. My statement is simply a fact. I am not talking about the owners preferences or "usability" here but rather historical and or market value for an item. This is true for any collectible item. Why would you think firearms are an exception? Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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| One of Us |
I do. If a guy owns a redwood forest, I don't want him clear cutting it just because he wants some firewood. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well Dan, can you then explain to us what is so fantastic about the WR in question? Here is a Catalogue from Westley Richards:  Should we be conserned that they have altered a genuine M98? You are of course aware of the fact that they use surplus military M98's? And can you tell us the huge difference between theese scopemounts and the ones on the WR you presented? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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| Moderator |
Then buy it from him, for market price, before he burns it... otherwise your "want" is just that... Bent, nice pic...wonder if the WR was offered with the same scope mounts... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
All this bashing over what the guy might have done. I believe it was rumored that he drilled and tapped the rifle. Lets find uot for certain, then we can burn down his house and murder his family. WOW | |||
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| One of Us |
nah, we're just going to give him a "William Wallace" ending like the one in the movie. Let me tell you about my old Hemi Roadrunner. A guy said he was a collector, so I sold it to him. There ain't that many un-monkeyed with out there and he wanted to preserve it, he said. He paid pretty big bucks. About 15 years later his kid graduates from high school and wants the car...and the old man gives it to him. The kid is at college, and is a budding paintball hero. Yes, he paints a red car white with pearl and puts hundreds of airbrush hits on it...they look like somebody shot the car with a zillion paintballs. Still okay...you can fix that. On the other hand, when he puts two rods thru the left side of the block because he missed the 2-3 shift and shoved it back into 1st at 7000RPM...that original serial numbered block is now a boat anchor, and he has reduced the value of the car by at least 50%. Worse, the remaining number of (under 200 factory 1968 Hemi RR's) has been reduced by one, permanently reduced by one. And, he could have built a clone that would have been faster with 1/3 of what the car would have sold for. The deal is that they aren't making these anymore, and it's a shame to ruin them. This is like your 85-year old grandmother showing up at the next family reunion dressed like Madonna with a set of 38-DD silicone breast implants...with grandpa in two dressed like Prince! Rich DRSS | |||
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| one of us |
There is no accounting for taste or often the lack of. I may mourn over the loss of a classic item by those who would "improve" them, but I will defend their right to do it. I would try to convince them otherwise or try to buy it from them if I felt that strongly. In the end it is up to the owner even if it is a loss to the rest of us. Personal property is just that. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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| new member |
Last I heard, the Rigby had been purchased by Bill Keith of Trader Keith's in Portsmouth NH I don't know Mr Keith personally, but from reputation he does not seem the type to ruin a piece of history like that. | |||
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| One of Us |
Rich, I mourn your Hemi RR. However, I restored/cloned a 69 Satellite into a 69.5 six-pack lookalike for ME. Never tried to represent it as anything else but a clone, and still you get criticism from asswipes about "fakes" You just can't please everyone, and I don't even try at all! Lee. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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| One of Us |
I hope you wouldn,t be so foolish as to try to stop the faller from laying them on the ground !!!!! .....  A big stump is a way better trophy than a piece of meat any day ......Unless you are just some lazy office worker.......If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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