I'm not sure the poll was two to one, more like seven to five...

The POS CZ we are two-cents worth-ing here is not a factory rifle. It is a CZ-USA project, and they farm out the actions to an (apparently) half-ass contractor in the midwest to barrel and stock. The Czech made ones only issue seems to be a propensity of some 416 Rigbys splitting stocks. They are addressing that at the factory by putting two crossbolts in them. Ruger dealt with the 404 Jeffreys case feeding history by not offering the RSM in that caliber, or 505 Gibbs, or some of the other calibers you can get the CZ in. IMHO, which is just and only that, any rifle 375 caliber and up you double crossbolt and bed before you shoot it.

I own a pair of CZ 516 Rigbys and neither one have had any issues, nor has my FS 9,3x62. That's all I can go on, and so I soldier on. I would have no qualms about buying another in any caliber I had use for.

Rich
DRSS
CZ fan

I've owned 3 CZ's,all feeding/shooting & handling like champions.

Mate sounds like you've had some bad luck with that rifle,& cant really blame you for getting dirty.
Who wouldn't,BRAND NEW rifles should require zero work out of the box .

Good luck mate,hope you get it sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I'm not sure the poll was two to one, more like seven to five...

The POS CZ we are two-cents worth-ing here is not a factory rifle. It is a CZ-USA project, and they farm out the actions to an (apparently) half-ass contractor in the midwest to barrel and stock. The Czech made ones only issue seems to be a propensity of some 416 Rigbys splitting stocks. They are addressing that at the factory by putting two crossbolts in them. Ruger dealt with the 404 Jeffreys case feeding history by not offering the RSM in that caliber, or 505 Gibbs, or some of the other calibers you can get the CZ in. IMHO, which is just and only that, any rifle 375 caliber and up you double crossbolt and bed before you shoot it.

I own a pair of CZ 516 Rigbys and neither one have had any issues, nor has my FS 9,3x62. That's all I can go on, and so I soldier on. I would have no qualms about buying another in any caliber I had use for.

Rich
DRSS
CZ fan

I'll second that.

In fact, almost all problems with big bore CZ550's seem to be an American affair.
My CZ550 Lux is original czech made and as I said recently...... no problems at all, not even with the stock after around 500 shots, withoud crossbolting or bedding the action....

Hello,
Fellow in the Classified section offering for sale a near new CZ 416Rigby, Leupold Scope VXIII 1.5x5, Talley rings, bullets, brass, dies, etc. and the whole batch is 1100.00 or so. Take off market price of the Leupold scope, rings, dies, bullets and brass, and the buy price of the near new rifle is in the 650.00 range. He is not offering the rifle alone for that number, but that is about what you are paying for it in reality.
For those who think highly of the CZ big bore, here's the best opportunity you will see for a long time!!

458Win

I might be a bit argumentitive, but who has seen a guide or PH carrying an Echols, Lon Paul or David Miller rifle? The ones I have hunted with looked like their rifles were customized by Bubba, then left outside the tent in a rainstorm for a day or two. I have read your articles where you used a Paul rifle, but don't believe it was yours either. Again, not trying to be a dick, but I don't know of any PH's carrying an Echols Model 70, nor have I heard of any. I have seen some carrying CZ's Brnos, and Ruger RSM and standard M70's and they are all still shooting and alive. Ad, who used to post here had an Echols rifle break in Africa once, which is one more than I've had crap out on a hunt.

While you may not have witnessed it - there are numerous guides and PH's with top quality rifles. I know two AK guides who carry best quality English doubles. There are also a number of African PH's who use both Echols and Lon Paul rifles. I was at D'Arcy's booth at SCI both the past two years and witnessed African Ph's ordering his rifles. Lon also sells rifles to African PH's at every show, including this last one where I witnessed him taking a second order from a young guide at the TGT booth. The 458 Lott on his web site was commissioned by - and is used by - a working PH. Joe Coogan, another TGT guide, owns two .
That 458 Lott by Lon Paul I wrote up about was my rifle and I have another on order.

Mr. Shoemaker, One of my hard use rifles is a CZ550 375H&H. Since the beginning, it's been a work in progress. I go over this rifle every year from the ground up. Each time it tends to get a bit shorter, a bit lighter and a bit more reliable. Its on my bench again in its bazillion tiny watch like parts. Again I'm looking at the CZ trigger thinking this thing has got to go. It's bad enough that the trigger alone has nearly half as many parts as my entire mauser rifle, but the fact that the trigger contains so many tiny pins (including nylon), springs, clips, etc. is worse. It never gives me the confidence of a simple and rugged mauser trigger assembly.

I've had all I can stand and can't stands it no more. Can you recommend a viable alternative that is closer to the M70 or the good ole M98 trigger for the CZ 550Mag??

Thanks,
GVA

Gary, you are correct about the CZ trigger and while I hate to sound like a broken record, I have learned that when I find someone who actually knows how to do something I tend to stick with them. I had Lon Paul fix my CZ 550 trigger and he actually built a trigger that has proven to be 100%.

Check came . . . hope it clears. This company really does need to get its act together.

The end.

And now onto the next CZ horror story.

I actually had to do a little tweaking on my CZ Lott last night to get it to feed (defined as dangerous game fast and slow feeding) with my particular bullet.

It was hell (pure hell I say!), but for the money, not to mention 5 down, where else would I find anything anywhere near it's equal? Nowhere.

It's a keeper.

Maybe we have it all wrong. Maybe CZ's notion of a DGR feeding is feeding the animal that the holder of the CZ DGR is hunting. Just a thought.

I always hear a lot of bad mouthing of the CZ trigger mechanism but haven't had any of mine fail. They sure can be adjusted to a light crips let off though. I agree that it would seem they should malfunction all the time with such a complex mechanism. In practice I just haven't seen that. Is this concern realistic, or is it just a paranoia? I have a very complex swiss watch that keeps time to a few seconds/year. How is that possible for such a complex mechanism?....Because it is well made.

I'm not sure if the overall rough machining/quality control that many CZs have is representative of the quality of the trigger. I like all of my CZs because they have been rugged, dependable and look reasonably nice. The best thing is that if I bang one on a rock it doesn't bother me because its not a "nice rifle".

So anyway, who has had their trigger fail(not from faulty adjustment)? I'm not saying that they don't, just that I haven't seen it. Please share what happened and how it failed. I'd like to hear other peoples' bad experiences with the triggers.

Wes

I'm just curious, why would you take your trigger assembly apart? Any one who doesn't like the CZ trigger can have a Timney for well under a hundred bucks. That SST was a big selling point to me, having a background of thousands of rounds per year expended shooting prairie dogs and rockchucks here in Idaho and Montana, and several years of benchrest and now BP shooting. I have a sleeved Rem 700 with a 5/8th OZ two-stage trigger I hunt rockchucks with.

Rich
DRSS

Hello,
I believe the problem w/ the CZ's is a perception problem. Let's see now, bad stocks in the big calibers, won't feed, rough as a cob, fit and finish mediocre, accuracy sub standard, mfg. service/attitude less than good, etc. Is all of this true?? Doubt it, but CZ has let the issues slide into the world of perception and in any sensitive arena, market, situation, even the perception of having problems, poor quality, poor performance, is suffecient to cause a great deal of damage. It is usually very difficult if not impossible to alter to a favorable status. It would appear that CZ has refunded the gentleman's money for his purchase, but I seriously doubt that will stop the complaints real or imagined. I think CZ would have been way ahead to have built the user a new, quality checked, first class rifle and delivered it to him by special delivery via his dealer rather than send him a check. I doubt he will buy a CZ with that money!! They have a serious marketing/perception problem with their big bores and from what I have read, the President is not becoming pro active in the problem solving program. It is said that a contractor builds these large bore rifles. Not relevant in the problem solving arena for if it were built on Mars, CZ brought it to market.
They may not really care for I doubt that the market overall for them or any other rifle builder in big bore is enough to significantly alter their P&L statement, but may well impact on the other lines?? Wish it would solve itself for I would love to save serveral hundred dollars on a big bore rifle. Not quite ready to take the plunge until I see some positive changes on the part of CZ.

That Timney may be an option. I didn't know they made a 550Mag trigger, I'll look into it:

http://www.timneytriggers.com/product_info.php?cPath=36...e259481eb2e91d3db8dd

I do an extensive LTI each year on my rifles. The CZ Magnum sear spring gave out this year (second time). It is not a coil like the standard 550 sear spring. CZ makes fairly crappy springs and I've had bad luck w/ it. CZ-USA has the same trouble as they replace them often w/ warranty work and have a hard time keeping them in stock.

Also, my rifle took a bad swim (w/ me holding it) when I lost my footing on a bear hunt. CZ steel rusts real quick as the factory finish is very poor. Temps dropped and the complicated trigger assembly locked up like a bank vault. I got it going in the field, but it was damaged.

I have an issued M40 built by a USMC 2112 from the Marksmanship Unit at Quantico. I would say this worked trigger "feels" about as good as any. But, it doesn't necessarily make the best low maintenance hunting trigger on a hard use working type rifle that may see much abuse in foul conditions. This is where water and debris can get trapped inside the tightly enclosed trigger causing problems if you're out in the field. A very simple M98 trigger w/ its very few heavy made parts, its huge powerful coil spring and its open design is better suited in my opinion. It may not feel quite as precise as the Rem or Jewel but it sure is tons more rugged.

I've made some additional modifications to this rifle and have refinished all the pieces and parts. I'm about to get her back up and going and thought this was as good a time as any to look at trigger options. I knew that Phil uses at least one in pretty foul conditions up in AK and that his son uses one under harsh conditions in Africa. I couldn't see him keeping the factory trigger so that's why I asked.

later,
GVA

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
I believe the problem w/ the CZ's is a perception problem . . . I seriously doubt that will stop the complaints real or imagined.

Perception, my tush. Imagined, hardly. They have a very real quality assurance, quality control problem. Yugo had the same philosophy, if we make them cheap enough no one will care whether they are a piece of dung. Well, guess what, people will trade quality for price to a point, but only to a point. In my view where there is smoke there is fire, this much noise about quality issues means something is screwed up.

Driver, I think you are correct. It is a perception problem. MJines reports a problem with his CZ-USA rifle, CZ-USA does the right thing by sending him a check and his response is "I hope it clears"! Wonderful! I have 3 CZ made rifles (note not CZ-USA) in 416 Rigby, 375 H&H and 7x57 Mauser and would not sell any of them. There are some on this forum who are down on Winchesters, some on Remingtons, same with Blazers, Kreighoffs...you name it! There is a thread on the Pistol forum where someone was trying to dump on Smith and Wesson. Guess you just have to research and make up your own mind. I did, and I have!
Peter.

Hello,
MJines, I do not disagree with you one bit and at this time would not buy one at any price(CZ that is,) but I doubt all of the products of CZ are as bad as the one you had and that is why now CZ is perceived by the gun buying public or many anyway, that the big bore versions are a real problem. No, I do not advocate that the problems are imaginary or just a perception, but only stating that the situation is out of hand and not under control as it should be due to lack of attention of the people at CZ. I do not know if the fellow under Classified has sold his CZ 416 Rigby w/ Leupold, scope ammo supplies, dies, etc., or not, but his pricing for a rifle of that caliber as equipped is a heck of a deal compared to what is out there in the market. If it is a problem free rifle, an outstanding buy anyway you look at it. Understand you were given refund, but would you not have preferred a replacement rifle which would have performed as expected and not had quality problems?? Perhaps you were tired of messing with them and glad to have your funds refunded and if so that is great.
As for the trigger issue, more parts than a swing set, I am not sure why one would want a set trigger on a big bore, dangerous game rifle to start with, but to each his own. Would much prefer a robust, solid, minimum parts trigger for such a rifle. Std. Mauser military trigger would be fine. Made to work rain or shine, hot or cold.

It is really pretty simple, you get what you pay for in rifles, cars and just about everything else in life. Peter, God bless you, hope you enjoy your CZ's, but if I was you, and I am not, I would think long and hard before hauling one of the CZ's off on the trip of lifetime. Owning an old MG is fun if you like to work on them on the weekends, but using it has reliable transportation to get back and forth to work everyday, day in and day out is going to catch up with you one day. Glad you like yours, let me know if you need the number of a good gunsmith.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

Perception, my tush. Imagined, hardly. They have a very real quality assurance, quality control problem. Yugo had the same philosophy, if we make them cheap enough no one will care whether they are a piece of dung. Well, guess what, people will trade quality for price to a point, but only to a point. In my view where there is smoke there is fire, this much noise about quality issues means something is screwed up.

Mike,
not to be a jerk here, but one bad mcgown barrel doesn't ruin an entire company, especially from their custom shop.

the cz is a great value, and a great place to start.

even the "Vaulted" model 70 usually needed a seasoned smith to make the big bores feed with junk

the exception seems to be the ruger RSM, but they don't always feed flat point bullets.


you get what you pay for, certainly. and CZ should have made it right the first SECOND they had it.. they didn't that's a CS screw up.


However, EVERY OTHER 404, 450, 500 AND 505 come from the same shop. They are back ordered by the 100s, and you aren't hearing huge complaints

FOR THE MONEY SPENT.

jeffe

Jeff,

How many CZ's do you own?

I will stand by what I said. Do a search and see how many posts you find about stocks splitting, broken springs, triggers, feeding, etc.

Russell was the first of the two of us to buy a CZ. He had to return it because the scope could not be sighted in since the bridge was screwed up. He took the money and bought a Winchester Safari in .375 H&H -- a great rifle that he has used on two trips to Africa with zero issues. I bought a .416 Rigby, had the stock worked on -- as you know -- and it cracked after the work. Bought the .404 Jeffery and it won't feed or shoot and then when they ship it back, they ship it back with a cracked stock. Now if you think that is not a indication that the company has some problems with quality control and quality assurance then . . . well not sure what to say about that.

When everyone starts their posts with "CZ's are a great starting point for a nice rifle . . .", "get a CZ and have the gunsmith fix the stock, smooth the action, trim the feed ramp, blah, blah, blah . . .", that also tells me that the company is not shipping a decent product to begin with.

As I said, God bless all the CZ buyers. As for me unless and until they can demonstrate an ability to make something that works when you buy it without having to have someone retool the whole thing, I will spend my money elsewhere.

Mike

I think the CZ is an excellent place to start when cost is an issue.

When I was looking at a CZ 375 it became apparent that there were two different animals. The American model was a POS. The fit was so poor that the the floor plate would not open. The bolt handle hit the stock.

The fit and finish of the LUX model was quite good. To me it just felt good.

The only thing I did was bed the action and barrel to the front recoil lug. While not a tack driver I does shoot inch plus groups. I don't know about the feeding of the American model, but the LUX feeds without problems.

With two recoil lugs and one cross bolt I don't think there will be a problem with the stock. To date I have fired over 300 rounds.

Mike,
remember, i am agreeing with you that CZ screwed up, several times, with your 404. That you choose to buy other rifles.. good on you, and you have fine tastes in guns and are a damn fine shot.

but our idea of what the CZ is may be totally divergent... i don't expect them to do anything but feed for the base price of them. but, then again, I love working on guns....

Now, I fully understand your frustation, in that a custom shop rifle should be totally up to snuff, and your's wasn't. In fact, it as piss poor.

i've owned 4 of them, in big bores.. haven't bought any of the mediums... well, that's not fair, 1 602 in 458 win, (redone to 470 mbogo) 1 550 in 375 HH fun to shoot, total yawner for me to own, and 1 550 in 458XXXlott an early american rechamber gun... shot great, when down the rode... and bought an action .how many have I shot? i have lost count... let's tick off a couple... 458 ackley, 550 magnum, 505 gibbs, 458 win (whole bunch), 458 lott(many), 375 HH, 416 rigby (several), 470 mbogo (2 of them) 585 nyati and even a 404 ... and all of those above custom guns cost about as much as the next step up for JUST the action

how many have I seen crack stocks? too damn many.. at least 4

i HATE the trigger, which is why i posted a link to the timney the second I found find the part number.

the base price for a CZ is about the same as what you would pay to get a mauser action to be NEARLY as good as a stock model 70, and neither can handle a 416 rigby enough to be a factory gun

and the model 70 aint a shining star on quality -since 1964... see the posts complaining about those.

as I have frequently stated, the run of the mill cz requires work before one goes and bangs away with it... fair notice...

but a custom shop gun likes yours? that it wasn't perfect FROM THE SHOP THE FIRST TIME is totally unacceptable.

should your's have been RIGHT and TESTED from the custom shop?

without a doubt, and they screwed the pooch on not making it right the second there was an issue.

does that damn all CZ's? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

then again, my biggest use for CZs is to use their barrels and/or actions to build larger calibers than CZ makes.

Obviously I have taken this much too personally. I certainly have intended no offense to anyone.

If others have had a good experience with the CZ's that is great. I am glad I can close the chapter on this one. Yes, they did step up to the plate and refund the full purchase price, but honestly, it never should have come to that. What I really find sad is that there are some out there who scrimp and save to buy the CZ's because they are half the price of the Ruger and I feel for those that bought them because that was all they could afford only to find out this needs fixing, that needs redoing, etc. It is not fair to those that bought in good faith, and then find themselves having to plunk down more money to make it work. I do not intend to post on this thread any more. The memories are just too painful.

I just recently bought a CZ in 458 wm and then had it reamed out for the 459 Lott. So far, it has feed the three different bullets from the box without a hitch. I have used 350gr Hornadys, 405 gr rem's, and some 500gr cast and everything feeds perfectly and no work has been done to the action. The rifle is very accurate and now that I have lapped the bore, it is very smooth. I have the hog back stock with the single cross bolt but I did install a couple internal bolts when I bedded the rifle to the stock. So far so good, no splits. The rifle has performed without a single fault so far.

In the end, we all post on our experience with the CZ's, in whatever caliber and configuration. Mike got a bad one, several of us here have had good ones, and so the debate can never be settled.
Mine work, I'll keep them, thank you, and Mike will likely never buy another one.

Rich
DRSS
CZ fan

I was very suprised at the title of this thread..I only have 3 CZ rifles and I am very impressed with them ...No other rifle in the money range has as many great features.....

GREAT THREAD. lots of info, on what to buy, and not buy, from CZ.

Guess I have to view like Kimber: buy it for action, and maybe barrel, and, if you buy the euro model, you may get a decent piece of turkish walnut to refinish.

Considering CZ actions seem to bring about 600 dollars, for the 550 Magnum version, paying 500 for my complete rifle, minus firing pin, wasn't such a bad deal. CZ even got the firing pin right on the second try, but, that could have been the abrasive gunsmith calling them, as well.

Still, I remember him saying, as he looked at the 375 H&H, with near presentation grade walnut,
"You paid HOW much, for this rifle?"

S

I have 2 CZ 550s now. The first was my 375 H&H in the African Safari model with hogback stock (a really beautiful piece of honey colored European Walnut). I originally ordered the American, but the dealer said it wasn't available at the time. After shooting it, I have no regrets. I can hold the fore end in the palm of my hand and shoot it like a light weight 30-06.

I love the SST trigger. After mounting a Leupold VXII 2x-7x scope and the requisite sighters ... I nestled down into it on the bench (like I was shooting prairie dogs in South Dakota) and my first 3 shot group measures 0.5" center to center using Remington Green box 270gr. It will do this all day.

The other CZ 550 is a 6.5 X 55 Swede that I bougth just before Christmas. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet ... been really busy, but I am quite pleased with the rifle in general. The only gripe I have is that CZ chose to put a slow twist rifling (8.6 twist) in this classic caliber. Should have been a 7.5 or at a maximum an 8.0.

My experience with CZ has been good. I guess there are bad ones ... hell, that's why there are "Lemon Laws" for cars. Some of it I think is expectations and like it has beem said, you get what you pay. Now, if I had paid commission on a good double and had the kind of problems some have reported ... then I would be seriously pissed too.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
I think the CZ is an excellent place to start when cost is an issue.

When I was looking at a CZ 375 it became apparent that there were two different animals. The American model was a POS. The fit was so poor that the the floor plate would not open. The bolt handle hit the stock.

The fit and finish of the LUX model was quite good. To me it just felt good.

The only thing I did was bed the action and barrel to the front recoil lug. While not a tack driver I does shoot inch plus groups. I don't know about the feeding of the American model, but the LUX feeds without problems.

With two recoil lugs and one cross bolt I don't think there will be a problem with the stock. To date I have fired over 300 rounds.

That doubles completely my impression, and once again, as I have said above, all the problems with the CZ550 seem to concentrate on th US models. I don't know what they do with them in the US, no idea....

My 550 in .416 is the Lux-version with a decent hogbag stock in a pretty wood. As I mentionned before, approx. 500 rounds until now with no feeding problems, no ejection problems and no broken stock and all that without having the action bedded or additional crossbolts installed....

Interesting, sniper66, neither my 416 nor my 375 have crossbolts, they have not been bedded, and I have not experienced stock splitting either. Not saying it won't happen, and if I can find someone to do it at a reasonable price I will probably get it done.
Peter.

The message here seems to be patently obvious.If you happen to acquire a "good CZ" they are bloody marvellous, if not they are total shit or at best need a fair bit of work to bring them up to scratch.
I suppose the question that has to be asked of a potential new CZ buyer is "are you feeling lucky"
Personally I own 5 Brnos,.22rf,.22 Hornet,.243 Win,.375 H&H,12GA shotty,ss.I have had all of them > 20 years and in the case of the .22rf > 40 years.All have been flawless in use and extremely accurate,in fact 10 out of 10 on all fronts.Obviously all were made pre CZ 550 days.
My advice is buy any reasonably priced Brno 601 or 602 action that you can get your hands on.