Thanks for everyones valuable input on my previous post concerning which .50 to choose. At this point in time I have decided to go with the 505 Gibbs because of the easy access to brass and it really does have all the power and "wow" factor I could ever look for. Plus being a commerical round it will be easy to resell if I move onto another project.

Right now I am working out details with Hein so I could use some assistance from you guys in the know. My plans are to go with their largest N-5 left handed action and it will hold 4 down and be in a syn stock. I wouldnt be troubled to stay with only three down if the larger magazine would make the rifle appear to be to bulky. I do plan on carrying this rifle and using it for hunting.

If I stay with the round bridge action Talley bases will be installed with 8x40 screws and QD rings. Will this hold a low power scope in place on this rifle?

Suggestions on barrel length, muzzle diameter, and finished rifle weight (without the scope) would be appreciated.

I am also considering adding a mercury recoil reducer in the stock and a Vais brake.

Should the barrel be bedded with a second recoil lug?

All comments are appreciated.

Howdy,
great choice, all the way. I would have the barrel maker start with a 1.75 blank, and leave a washer 1.75" long to cut an intregal sight base and recoil lug into it. Even if you are paying to have this done, you'll find the cost swap out for a base and sight and mounting a lug are about (not exactly) even.. but you never ever have to worry about it coming off or making a hard spot in the barrel.

my 500 jeffe is about 9.5 or so, and is barely fun to shoot at that weight, and some say not fun at all...


about a pacnor #5 for a lighter rifle or #6 for a heavier one.

since you are going with the gibbs, and it has such a huge case capacity, at least 23", and 25 would be a little long...

don't add a brake, at 2350 ish, a 10 to 10.5# rifle will be fine to shoot, after some training.

it will kick surprisingly more than a lott, mostly due to the huge amount of powder you will be burning.

a merc tube will probably be needed to make it balance... it should be slightly nose heavy.. and I mean slightly.

what stock are you planning to use and how long can you make it... at elast your LOP I hope!!!

jamison makes great gibbs brass, for about 1/2 the price of hornber
www.custombrassandbullets.com

tiggertate recently built one on a CZ, so you might ask him for some direct feedback.

if I were doing it, I would ask karl to make darn certain the action feeds before coming to you.

jeffe

I went with Hein for a 505 which should be here in a month or so. I'll post pics when I get it might give you some ideas. I went synthetic stock, 4 down, 24" barrel, no recoil reducers with a 10.5-11 pound weight. I had them add a 2nd recoil lug in the event I decide to have it stocked in wood down the road, went with rust blue for the same reason. In the overall scheme of things these were inexpensive additions, though the rust bluing has added to the wait due to some subcontractor issues.

For amazing QD mounts see www.talbot.us - contact

Mike P. retreever here. He has them on a .375 H&H

and they are 5 STAR stuff!

There are loads with Rel 15 that reach classic 505 velocities with no more recoil than a 10 lb 458 Lott. The more I shoot mine, the more I realize it is not deserving the reputation for recoil it gained early-on. Synthetic is a fine choice but I would trade the muzzle break for another mercury tube in a heartbeat. Mine has neither and most folks can shoot it comfortably. My stock is an AHR pattern in wood that handles recoil quite well. I'm sure Hein knows what works well in a synthetic.

.......I didn,t have the Gibbs but did have a 500 A-2 and I would go with the muzzel brake....Alot of people have reported very positive results with the Vias.....Get a collar for it so if you want to hunt with the recoil you can take the brake off and put the collar on... I have broke enough stocks that I want a 2nd recoil lug even on a 375... I had my 416 contoured the same as a CZ ,,simular to what Jeffe suggested.. I like his idea to use a 1.75 dia. blank ... My next one will also have the front sling eye and front sight base be integral .........It sure beats the bolted on stuff......One reason I like the brake is it elimanates the need for packin extra weight .... The 50 caliber high velocity rounds are not limited to close range but to the abilities of the shooter...........I,ve shot deer with my 500 @ 200 yrds or a bit more with the 4x pistol scope and no muzzel brake......But I was young then.....There were tougher shots that I missed that I probably would have made if I had a brake on my rifle........If you hunt up here with it you probably won,t have a pro who complains about the muzzel blast

snowwolfe

I have a 505 Gibbs (Original) and a 500 Jeffrey (Custom M98) and as suggested by someone else I would put in a recoil reducer and ditch the muzzle brake.

I have no problem handling the recoil from either gun - or any big bore - and I think the muzzle brake will give you more of a flinch than the recoil !

The weight of your rifle sounds fine.

Oh, forgot to mention, neither of my guns have recoil reducers.

Hope this helps.

11 1/2 lbs, unloaded. No muzzle brake or recoil reducers. Thumper at both ends!

Recoil is manageable, but I would trust a scope on it.

Pac Nor lists a #5 barrel as finishing at .700 at the muzzle.
That is less than .100 of an inch of metal remaining all around. Should I go to a #6? What would you guys recommend for a muzzle diameter?

Would I be able to use a low powered scope on this rifle and have the entire set up hold up to the recoil?

I believe the minimal recomended wall thickness is 0.125", and prudent minimum is 0.150".

Considering I'd want the finished weight to be over 10#'s I'd say you'll want at least a 0.800" muzzle. I believe my 25" 500 Jeffrey is 0.825" at the muzzle, but I'd have to measure it to confirm that.

23" bbl, .850" at the muzzle, eleven pounds empty, add a mercury recoil reducer and consider about 8oz of #9 shot mixed with epoxy in the forend. My friend Paul's 505 that Jim Wisener build weighs 12 1/2lbs empty and is a pussycat off the bench. Great gun to shoot, but I would want about 12lbs or so with scope. My 550 Gibbs will come at 12.5 w/scope.


Rich
DRSS

On the idea of breaks. After building several 450 and 500 Nirto rifles I have tested breaks and designs. I took many of the the designs tested to build a break to give most recoil reduction possible. Each one is fitted to the barrel size. I just finished a CZ in 416 Rigby. Owner had issues of handling the recoil for 3 shots. Mercury recoil tubes are helpful, but the break is the most effective we have tested. There are no forward holes as these serve to stop some of the noise; they make the break less effective. Blued or stainless and all being removed to allow hunting with out. Simple thread cover to protect the threads. His Rigby post break feels like a 30-06. One hunters issue with a 300 Rem. Ultra mag. drove him to a break. The Ultra mag recoil is in line with a 308. My 9 year old son test fired the Ultra mag using 150 grain bullets. He was shocked ot find it was less recoil than his 7-08. From testing on benchrest rifles of 100 to 1000 yards we have not found accuracy suffer and most rifles shoot better groups after the break as handling is easier. Think the break issue over well. Good luck with the 505

Bill,
Can you provide a photo of your break along with additional detailed info?

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
My plans are to go with their largest N-5 left handed action and it will hold 4 down and be in a syn stock.

Two suggestions:

1. Get 4 down + 1. It's a wonderful feeling to use a 5 shot .505 Gibbs when hunting.

2. Have Hein use an Obendorf style bolt handle (straight drop down, not swept back). For reference you can look at pics of the Granite Mountain Arms action bolt handle. If your bolt handle is swept back, it stands a chance of whacking you in the knuckle during recoil, which can be unpleasant.

quote:

If I stay with the round bridge action Talley bases will be installed with 8x40 screws and QD rings. Will this hold a low power scope in place on this rifle?

If you can justify the expense, get the double square bridge action.

As for scope, if your eyes will allow it, go with iron sights only with no holes in the action for a scope. A scoped Gibbs seems to be harder to resell than one set up for irons only. And few people seem to be able to keep the scope off their forehead when shooting something as big as a .505 Gibbs.

If you go with a scope, I would suggest the double square bridge setup with Smithson QD rings. Talleys would be fine, but Talleys are usually found on a lower price point rifle than Smithson rings. This can influence price point on resale.

quote:

I am also considering adding a mercury recoil reducer in the stock.

Is Hein certain that they can secure it so that it does not move inside of a synthetic stock?

quote:

and a Vais brake.

I would advise against the brake. If your .505 weighs 11 to 12 pounds and if you keep the velocity reasonable, a brake is not needed unless you insist on a scope. If it weighs more than 12 pounds, it will be extremely difficult to carry on a hunt. If it weighs significantly less than 11 pounds, recoil will start to become more bothersome.

quote:

Should the barrel be bedded with a second recoil lug?

Absolutely.

My .500 A2 barrel is 0.800" in diameter at the muzzle.

A removable brake is good for extended shooting from the bench when developing loads. I have one on nearly all of my big bores.

My working 505 weighs around 9 1/2# with 22" bbl. I recommend no muzzle break for a number of reasons including re-sale (which you brought up) as well as the factor that many African PH's will not allow you to carry a rifle with one installed. If recoil bothers you load it down to 2100fps with the 525gr bullets. That is what the original Kynoch loads were actually doing (I have chronographed them) and what the Gibbs made it's name with. I have never been able to tell much difference between it and the standard 458 in recoil and it most definately is effective.

Hein has never commented concerning problems installing the mercury recoil reducer(s) in the stock. I am leaning towards one in the butt and one small one in the fore end to help with the balance. They also informed me they add the second lug to all there big kickers for no additional charge.
It looks like I will order the iron sights as most all my shots are under 50 yards up here anyhow. They also offer a straight bolt handle which is what I have ordered for my 375 which is still on order!
Since I will be reloading I would rather have a lighter rifle for carrying so the loads will be less potent.
So far I am looking for a finsihed weight of 10 pounds, 22 inch #6 Pac Nor barrel, with possibly 2 recoil reducers. It will hold 4 down and have a Roguard black finish.
The square bridged action are simply out of my price range but even if they were not why order it if I am staying with iron sights? Since Hein does include bases for no charge I will order the Talleys with 8-40 screws and maybe put a lightweight red dot sight on it just to piss off the purists at the local range - ha ha!
Suggestions for iron sights are appreciated as are any other details that will make this into a better hunting rifle.
Mercury recoil reducers - I never shot a rifle that had em, do they really work?

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Mercury recoil reducers - I never shot a rifle that had em, do they really work?

I had one installed in my Merkel .500NE and it seems to work wonders. I can't say for sure how much effect it had though because I also had a recoil pad added at the same time I had the recoil reducer added.

I've thought about having a 505 built, and if I ever do I will have recoil reducers installed on it.

Yes, they work.

At least some physicists will tell you, however, that they don't work any better than just adding weight equal to the weight of the reducer.

I honestly don't know, one way or the other, since the mathematics involved require a bit of study.

But I do have mercury tubes in several of my rifles, and they do work!

Snowwolfe:

I have a .500 Jeffery. It weighs 9.5 lbs, has no brake but does have a mercury recoil reducer. I shoot 535 grain Woodliegh softs and solids at around 2400 fps. From a standing position, it is not bad to shoot at all. I don't plan on putting a scope on this rifle.

My friend had a Gibbs. With the 525 grain bullets, it was not bad to shoot. It also had no break but did have a mercury recoil reducer. However, with the 570 and 600 grain bullets, recoil increased considerably.

My advice...stick with Gibbs original design of a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps and forget the break and the scope. It will kill anything that walks the face of the earth and won't be that difficult to shoot.

Dave

500 grains knows what he is talking about here...

Rich
DRSS

Oh yeah, front and rear sights. Take a look at the rear adjustable on the Weatherby. Wisener makes it and their barrel band front as well. I spoke with him a week ago and he had some in stock. I have a set on order for my 550 Gibbs. I see no reason for a scope on a 50 yard rifle, until my diabetes takes me down that road.

Rich
DRSS

Do you have a URL for Wisener? I did a search and came up empty.
Thank you

don't think he has one, that'w why I suggested look at the Wbee site. It's a neat rear sight.

Rich
DRSS

The correct spelling is Wisner.

Wisner's website

thanks scrollcutter. For some reason, I keep wanting to add an "E". "Can I buy a vowel...?'.

Rich

DRSS