I voted for the CZ, and I am definitely not a Ruger "Hater". My problem with both the #1 and the Model 77, is that all of the ones that I have looked at or handled in 375 H&H and larger, have these short heavy barrels. I just do not like short heavy barreled guns. When I bought my Model 77 in 35 Whelen about 12 or 13 years ago or so, it came with that 22 inch long piece of heavy steel. I shot it that way a couple of years, then had the barrel replaced with a 26 inch medium sporter weight. That gun is my second most favorite rifle to carry and use, next to my 375. The CZ 550 458 Mag I bought earlier this year is a pleasure to carry and shoot. My first 458, a Model 77 Ruger was not.

I voted for Ruger, because I thought they chambered it in 450 Rigby.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Canuck,
I am simply avoidant of any rifle that has no recoil lug on the action. I was ignorant when I bought that RSM. Live and learn. Your 470 Mbogo has surely been expertly bedded and likely reinforced with hidden cross bolts in the forearm, to back up the recoil plate?

The solitary RSM visible crossbolt serves to prevent the stock from splitting through the magazine well, but it is certainly not backing up any recoil lug on the action.

RIP, I'm trying to follow your complaints, but, I don't quite agree w/ your assertions. I've owned and used several RSMs and 550 Mags. I currently have one RSM and two CZ Mags. Your description of the recoil systems did not match my recollection, so I just went back to the workbench and disassembled one of each.

The Ruger RSM uses an angled receiver recoil lug as well a a secondary barrel recoil point w/ the difference being that both are unitized w/ a common recoil plate inletted into the forearm. Though the receiver lug is not the traditional wedge lug, never the less, it is merely machined down giving a .150" deep convexed shaped bearing surface that mates a matching .150" deep bearing surface in the plate. This plate is inletted into the forearm and is sandwiched between the stock and forward recoil point. This creates a unitized recoil plate system that is probably far stronger than having separate front and rear square lugs bedded into the wood stock.

As far as the crossbolt is concerned; the RSM does use the angled recoil screw that draws the boss shaped recoil lug down and back into the bearing surface of the plate. In addition, it is also pulling the forward lug of the bottom metal up into its recess in the stock. The lug on the bottom metal along w/ the action screw forms an angle w/ the recoil boss and plate. The crossbolt is perfectly located behind this point and does back up the recoil system.

I don't find one more difficult to bed than the other, they are just diffierent. I do find that the RSM has fewer options if you wish to change stocks. In addition, every last one of them (either CZ or RSM) will eventually crack in the thin webbing between the mag box and trigger inletting unless reinforced. That is unless the rifle is a safe queen.

As far as triggers go; I like a simple 98 Mauser trigger. Few parts, heavy coil spring in a machined steel cup, solid steel pin. Open design and pretty much idiot proof. The CZ has ample adjustment but that damn thing looks like a Swiss watch. So many pieces and parts, tiny springs and pins, clips and such. I'd much rather have a simpler trigger if it is used alot and must be depended on. The Ruger trigger may not have the best feel of the bunch but it sure is much simpler and it works well.

My take on this issue is as follows:

-If you want a rock solid turn key rifle that works and doesn't look bad. Go get the RSM but make sure you strengthen up the area in the stock webbing and properly bed it. Make sure the rifle is thoroughly vetted before it's relied upon.

-If you want the foundation for a rock solid rifle to be taylored to your taste. Go get a CZ and pick your poison.

Either of the above routes can be good choices and either have good and bad points but neither of the above routes are Mausers.

GVA

That little round bolster on the bottom of the RSM action is not a "recoil lug." It fits into a round hole in the rcoil plate that reaches up into the forearm and ends in a single recoil lug, the only one on the entire rifle. I don't like it. I own one RSM and that is enough for me. I do own more Ruger rifles than any other make, and cannot fault the M77 Mark II or the latest Hawkeye action (same) in any way, other than the lawyer proof triggers, which hopefully will be improved on the Hawkeye, and not needing the usual replacement or tinkering with springs.

Just IMHO.

Hello,
As mentioned earlier, the comments on the Ruger vs CZ would leave one to believe that the Ruger was a distant second in this race, but as the votes are being tallied, the Ruger just keeps building a lead?? It would appear that quite a few fail to see the reported negative aspects of the Ruger and see more negatives in the CZ offering. Aside from the design, appearance, etc., of the Ruger M77 Deluxe Magnum Rifles, the real plus I find is the performance of the rifle and the excellent accuracy delivered even with a supposed terrible trigger. Must be some kind of "black magic!!"

The real rifle looney sees the CZ as a diamond in the rough that can be a much better rifle when all is said and done, than the RSM.

You start off for less than half the cost, and make installment payments on it to get it better than the RSM can ever be. The RSM has the integral quarter rib and M70-style safety, and a slip-on barrel band sling base held in place with a set screw. The CZ has an integral rear sight island and integral secondary recoil lug fixture, and a barrel band front sight that can use the same NECG replacement beads as the Ruger. Two recoil lugs for the CZ, one for the Ruger (that falls off the barreled action when it is taken out of the stock). Greater magazine capacity in the CZ.

I love the Rugers, always will, still have my first real rifle, a Ruger M77 .30-06 from the 1970's, and a second generation fat-barreled .416 Rigby RSM. They are both tack drivers. However, I see the RSM as mostly cosmetic appeal for the noncognoscenti. Silicone boobs instead of the real thing.

The Ruger M77 Hawkeye African in .375 Ruger will take the wind out of all the .375 H&H sails. It is priced like a CZ 550 Magnum, and a sounder design than the RSM.

I will stir the pot a little here, but I go along with the idea that the rugers "Popularity" is possibly more of a "Vanity" issue than actual mechanics of either rifle.

Whether folks want to admit to it or not, is their business, but how manyu folks that have voted, bought their rifles simply because a $1500.00 rifle sonds more impressive than an $800.00 rifle. Just an observation here.

The under a grand pricetag,,,,,,The amazeing work on the barrel and action ,,, The set trigger,, all make the CZ550 Safari Mag ....An item that shows on shelves in smaller gun shops.......If the Brno 602 would have had an american style safety, then perhaps all the Rugers I,ve owned would have been Brno,s ...I haven,t bought and probably won,t buy either ,because I dislike the Rigby round.......If they were made in 416 Rem Mag I would own both.....And if the big Ruger action was available.. I would build rifles on it as it is built like a heavy game battle rifle....

I will say it again...the $800 price tag difference will buy dies, powder, primers, and a lot of loaded ammunition or brass and bullets.

regards,

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS
Proud CZ owner and shooter

Hello,
Well, the "hits just keep on com'n..." in favor of the Ruger that is, and based on the negative comments about the Ruger, go to the Searcy Firearms web page and as so aptly stated there, " That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how lound the clamor of denial." Very well stated regarding not only the Searcy, but the Ruger Magnum Deluxe Rifle as well.

driver,

the poll might more properly ask which one would you actually pull the $$$ out of your pocket and buy?

Which one do you prefer is like asking if you would prefer the weekend with an average but attractive woman or the Playmate of the Year? Which do you prefer, the Ferrari Enzo or a Shelby GT500?

regards,

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS
P-R-O-U-D CZ owner and shooter...bought a CZ in 416 Rigby and a FS mannlicher in 9,3x62 for what the Ruger cost

The question does ask which rifle would you pull your money out and buy.

i have both a cz and some rugers they are both fine guns but i like my cz 550 in 460 wby better than my ruger in 375 H&H the cz to me is smother. but like i said both are fine rifles

Hello Idaho Sharpshooter,
Well, I am sure the CZ's you have are fine, but so are my three Ruger Magnum Deluxe Rifles and have not done a thing to them other than shoot a fair amount and no problems to date (have over 200 rounds through each of them now and more to follow this coming Spring.) I am somewhat devoted to those items being American and seriously looking for a double rifle in the not too distant future and it would be a Searcy all the way. Either fortunately or unfortunately have spent a lot of time all over this globe and don't really care for the "support" attitude displayed by some of our European/off shore suppliers, no matter what the product.
I hear mixed reports on the service given by CZUSA and hear similar negative reports about Ruger and others, but I believe I would rather deal with a problem with an American firm than others. Ruger is the largest firearms mfg. in the U.S., perhaps the world???, and own stock in the firm and firmly believe they are now a well managed firm. Their product line is growing, diversified, high quality, and as mentioned before, "home grown" and that appeals to me and apparently a lot of other folks based on the poll numbers of those not only preferring Ruger, but willing to outright purchase. Best of luck with your CZ's.

Hey RIP

If you don't take out both screws in the the for-stock then the recoil plate will not fall out. At lest it dosn't in my RSM .458 Lott.

I restocked mine in a used RSM stock from a friend in Alaska and it seams to be doing fine.

I had to restock it because I incorectly bed mine an knocked a chunk out of the stock behind the rear tang.

Love my RSM shoots good, feeds perfect and looks very clasy!!

Semper Fi and Safe Hunting.

Will

one nice thing about CZ, if they build a rifle...you CAN buy ammunition, reloading dies, and brass for it.

And, the thread does not say which one would you actually pull them hard-earned dollars out of your pocket and purchase. It says something about "preference"...which is a horse of a different color.

Try this one instead: those of you buying a 416 Rigby in the next six months, will it be a Ruger or the CZ?
I would expect the poll would show a vastly different set of numbers. The present one is more of a popularity contest, not an actual purchase decision.

regards,

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS
Proud CZ owner and shooter

The poll question

If you were buying a new .416 Rigby factory rifle would you purchase the Ruger M77 Magnum or would you purchase the CZ 550?

Probably a poll that would be different is to post up whether you own a CZ or the Ruger in 416. That would be like an election result as opposed to polls taken before the election

I voted for the CZ but for all I know if it came to purchase time then perhaps I would get the Ruger.

My general observation.....and that is all it is, a general observation....is that the CZ is more common among AR users across all the AR forums but the Ruger might be in front with posters on the African forum who have been to Africa or who are booked to go to Africa.

Mike

Since both of them need major work to be up to my standards it is a moot point. How much money is it going to take to get either one up to where you are happy with it? The bottom line for rifle and any needed modifications is the real factor here, personal preferences aside. Both rifles are fine starting points.

I've got one of each, been to Africa, prefer the CZ in .416 Rigby.

Q: Loosen and remove all the screws in the stocks of the CZ and the RSM, and separate the barreled actions from the wood, and what do you have?

A: The CZ has two recoil lugs still attached integrally to the barreled action.
But the RSM has no recoil lugs at all on the barreled action.

Hey, whatever floats your boat. But the recoil plate is my only gripe with Ruger, otherwise I prefer Ruger to any other factory rifle, and my rifle (and handgun) ownership shows my preference in numbers. I am one of Ruger's biggest fans, as well as CZ's.

The thread Does Ask which rifle would you pull hard-earned dollars out of your pocket and purchase.

sorreeeeeeeeeeeee, read the top line and went from there.

Let's ask the other question: how many of you own CZ's in 416 Rigby vs Rugers?

Love to stay and chat, but it just hit 40-degrees and the sun is shining...need to go shoot my CZ 416 and 9,3x62 before it snows again.

regards,

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS
Proud CZ owner and shooter

Guys, I was giving some thought to putting together a .416 Rigby just for fun and I did a search and found this old thread. The comments were great and very enlightening.

How do you choose between the Ruger or the CZ? I know this is not very scientific but for me, it is all about how the guns come up, handle, and point. My Ruger .375 is one classy looking gun but it is REALLY barrel heavy. My CZ .404 just comes up and points better. The jury is still out but if I decide to pop for a .416, I will probably get the CZ in a laminated stock and have my guy bed it and polish the action a bit. I think they all come with two recoil lugs now. Just my two cents.

Dave

Good question Dave.

The Ruger RSM is for the consumer not looking for a custom project. The RSM offers incredible value compared to what it would cost to bulid. Rifle balance is in the eye of the holder. To me the RSM has good balance. I have a friend who is a slight small framed adult. He bought a RSM in .375 and cut the stock to fit him. He shoots "lower" powered loads off of a rest and shooting sticks and for him the rifle is a joy. No recoil to speak of. He loves the classic look of the integral quarter rib and no muzzle break. He did not want a custom project.

The CZ is for someone that doesn't mind going to the gunmaker for tweeking if needed or major overhaul. CZ realizes that so they offer the action only to give the consumer choices of not having to discard sights, stocks, barrels, etc.

It's not initial rifle cost. Someone thet can spring for a new CZ 550 can save a few more pennies and buy a new RSM if that's what they want.

The lose of the Winchester M70 and the addition of the new .375 Ruger Hawkeye has cahanged the playing field.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:

The RSM offers incredible value compared to what it would cost to bulid.

Bull, I couldn't agree more. Out of the box, the Ruger is just such a nice rifle. The integral quater rib alone is probably worth the price difference and from a recoil standpoint, my .375 is a joy to shoot because of the weight of the rifle. Price is not the issue for me. I may decide on the Ruger but it's just a subjective thing I guess. The CZ just seems to come up better and is more "pointable" for me. Understand? In a dangerous game rifle where you may only have time for one good shot, that's an important consideration. Ford or Chevy? Who the hell knows!

Dave

The balance of the rifle and the way it comes up is everything. No reason to think any further.

Have owned both and voted for the CZ hands down. My experiences with Ruger and the rifle really sucked. So now I am very happy with my CZ. It balances much better also.

Ruger Website on Monday says: $2000+ suggested retail.

CZ website on Monday says: $949.95 suggested retail.

Ruger has a sort-of Mauser 98 design to the action.

CZ is basically an overgrown Mauser 98 action.

Ruger does give you nearly a pound more rifle for a mere $1000 or so more.

Some people rework the CZ trigger...not even God can rework the Ruger trigger.

The Ruger is a much more colorful rifle, I mean anybody (except Ruger) can drop forge and machine an action and blue it all in one boring monotonous blue; only Ruger can take a casting and turn it purple. And the range of delicate shadings from plum to violet on some of the receivers I have seen...breathtakingly gorgeous. It's almost like color case hardening in a way...
Besides, it brings back memories of the 'sixties and seeing Jimi Hendrex sing "Purple Haze"... at Monterey.

Still, I will stick with my old CZ 416 Rigby. Just introduced one of my nephews to the joys of casting this morning with a 350gr mould for the 416. Nice RFN design from RCBS.

Rich
DRSS

Rich, do all the CZ's now come with two recoil lugs standard?

Dave

Idaho Sharpshooter:

Please elaborate about your comment that "Ruger has a sort-of Mauser design to the action."

Thank you.

Dave,
as far as the website shows.

Rich
DRSS

Jumping Jehosophat!!!! Them things from Ruger are now $2200 retail...an even greater bargain than before! That extra pound of weight must be silver bullion in the butt stock or something.

The Ruger doesn't have a guide rib on the bolt or slot in the top of the receiver for one. But, you don't get as much for a piddling $2200 dollars as you used to. Priced us peons right out of the game...guess we'll have to get by with one of those CZ's eh? Or two, perhaps...and the necessary reloading dies, brass, and bullets...

Rich
DRSS

My vote goes to CZ. I currently have two of them one in .416 Rigby and one in .458 Lott. It is true that I took them to Jim Cloward to get the work done to them that I felt necessary. Even with that money spent they are still cheaper than the Ruger and shoot better too. Yes, I've owned a Ruger RSM. It was a nice rifle but not as nice as my worked over CZ's.

The work I had Cloward do is as follows:

Shorten the barrels to 22". (They work better in the thorn for me)

Install a ramp front sight with a big fake ivory bead.

Work the actions to assure flawless feeding and extraction.

I did the bedding.

Total cost of modifications, less than $130 per rifle.

While I'm not the world traveler some of you are, I have "walked among them" and hunted buffalo, leopard and plains game. I'm going back and I will again be using a CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
I voted for the Ruger.......I,ve never had one and think both should be chambered in 416 Rem Mag or 416 Dakota 416 Whby ......If I got the Ruger I would have it reamed to Whby, Since that was my aircat months prior to the 416 revalution...The CZ would get changed into anything other than the Rigby

You've never owned one, yet you voted for it... on what basis?

The CZ-550 is a better rifle, not as esthetically appealing maybe, but that is irrelevant; or do you think it would look better in a photo Op of you and a big Cape Buff'?

The Rugers are too damn barrel heavy!

CZ!!

Hello,
There are quite a few folks in my area owning big bore bolt guns, doubles, single shots, etc. and more than a few have bought the CZ's initially and spent something equal or greater than the purchase price to have the rifles meet their expectations. Some have elected to sell them for whatever reason and the drop in value for the "cleaned up CZ" is not pretty! It was mentioned that the CZ was in the hundreds, less than a thousand dollars, and the next buyer just is not going to pay a premium for a used "re worked rifle" and the resale goes back into the area of the original purchase price of the CZ.
Retail of the RSM is $2200.00 today and will probably increase before the year is up. The market price is in the teens and Gander Mtn. often have them in the 1700 range. Now, once you buy one it is not a given that you must immediately take it to a 'smith to have it reworked but rather load it and shoot it. If you do elect to sell it down the road, most will bring anywhere from 1200(low end,rough spots) up to 1500(high end,clean honest use gun) but keep in mind you have not lost some hundreds of 'smith work in the process of selling the RSM. Actually you will see very few of the RSM's on the open market and for me I would prefer that Ruger simply quit making them for the value will only increase with time for the RSM. As for function of the RSM, I have not seen or used one yet that did not work as smooth as silk, shoot extremely well whatever caliber, very nice wood, and have yet to see any RSM's w/ the slightest hint of purple as the old original 77's had. The RSM's are built like a tank, and to me it is comforting to have the Ruger firm backing up the rifle for any and all problems that may occur. Old school, but I like most American products or what is left of them anyway. RSM is simply the best value out there today when all things are considered.

I have the CZ. It is a very decent rifle. If I had had twice the money when I bought the CZ, I would have bought the Ruger! But ANY .416 Rigby is better than none!

IMO, the very WORST feature of the CZ 550 is that Rube Goldberg single-set trigger! A single-set is the very worst kind of set trigger to have on a hunting rifle, as its' use is NOT ergonomically sound. It is an unnatural movement to have to push a trigger forward to set it in the presence of game, (maybe OK on a VARMINT rifle), and has a tendency to slip when being set in cold or damp weather. It is, however, instinctive and easy to pull a rear trigger BACK to set it, as you do with a double-set.

If one wants aset-trigger for hunting, a good DST is much better, easier, and faster than a single-set with no tendency to slip when the weather is damp or cold, and costs no more than that thing that's on the CZ 550 now.

If one is NOT a fancier of such features, then a good, Model 70 Winchester type trigger is the best altermnative design for a bolt-action rifle, and it is NOT expensive to make nor difficult to adjust to an excellent single-stage break.

Idaho Sharpshooter:

You did not answer my question. In fact, you raised more questions about your statement.

Please define what you call a "Mauser design" and make another attempt to compare the Ruger and CZ to your definition of "Mauser design".

Thank you Idaho Sharpshooter. All that is neded are the facts.

under the stress of rapid reloading the bolt can bind or get cockeyed closing. The Mauser guide rib and slot prevents that. I went to Cabela's yesterday to get a gun case for a rifle I sold, and the two RSMs' there were a brilliant multi-hued purplish blue. For the price (double that of the CZ), I expect double the rifle...
I have talked to a total of fourteen people who have taken CZ's in 416 and 458L to Africa and hunted Buff and about half of them also opted for an elephant cull tag. None of them had done anything major to their rifles, crossbolts seemed to be the basic upgrade. I guess they are all doofuses since none of them had issues with the trigger or anything else.

In a beauty contest, the Ruger wins...in the get your checkbook out and write a check for seven or eight hundred dollars more contest...the CZ wins hands down.
Of course, in a beauty contest, the Holland & Holland beats the Ruger hands down...it's a matter of how much pretty you can afford. Since they all chamber the same cartridges, the animal you shoot will not notice any difference in esthetics...

I shot both in 416 Rigby at the same time, and have owned both. I also owned a Kimber back in the day, chambered in 416 Rigby...that would be my first choice of the three.

IMHO, and that is just what it is, all of this; is that you get your money's worth out of a CZ, and you do not with a Ruger. Only RBG has had the integrity to speak the truth about the Ruger trigger.

The bottom line, buy what you like and can afford...

Rich
DRSS

Idaho Sharpshooter:

1) In your opinion is an "overgrown Mauser 98 design" (your post) identical to a Magnum Mauser action?

2) Is a Magnum Mauser action identical to a Brevex action?

3) Is the Brevex action identical to a Vector action?

4) Is the the Granite Mountain action identical to a Brevex action?

5) Does a Winchester M70 incorporate a bolt guide?

6) Is the CZ 550 identical to a Brevex?

7) Does an "overgrown 98" have the same trigger group, safety, bolt stop, gas handling design, and integrated receiver scope bases, and big writing on the receiver as the CZ 550?

I'm trying to understand your action comparison.

Hello,
Those purple Ruger's must be custom ordered or something for I have three of them and none are purple in any respect, but if they were green, would still opt for them over the others out there, but that is just me. As you stated, buy what you can and "dance with the one you brung..." The critter on the other end when it goes off could care less what brand it is or how nice it looks. Performance is the key item in any firearm.