My reasons are as follows.

1.With Handloads the 45/70 is practically the equal of .450. The .450 from what I know is at it's peak anyway.

2. If Marlin had wanted a more powerful cartridge the .50 Alaskan would have been a considerable step up from the venerable 45/70.

3. I reckon heaps of people (myself included) would purchase a marlin in .50 Alaskan.

4. It would sell simply for the novelty of being the only .50 cal availble in a lever and secondly it would sell beacuse of the limited amount of rifles full stop in .50 cal. Secondly it would make for a cheap bigbore for many of those who would like a .50 cal rifle and could not afford a .500 jefferies etc.

Will my dream lever gun; stainless 1895ss with synthetic stock in .50 Alaskan, ever be produced by Marlin rather than just a custom job. I pray every night for it.

Any thoughts???

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JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

However, here's somthing to keep you guys awake at night: anyone ever heard of a 70/150? It's a brass cased 12 guage with a 70 cal projectile. they were buit in limited numbers in the original '97 levermatics....

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When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

a good friend of mine has a 45 cal lever gun, he designed the cartridge himself, its built on a browning model71.

He is firing 480grain bullets nearly 2300fps. Now that's as much power as i know of in a lever gun.

whatdaya think?

I'm doing to have to doubt your friend's claims.That is almost 458 Lott ballistics.I simply can't belive it.The most powerful 45 caliber to ever be harnessed in a lever gun is the 45/348 Ackley Improved,and it shot a 400 grain bullet only 2250 FPS.

Please tell us what case your friend's cartridge is based on.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

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You can buy a Marlin in .50 Alaskan from Wild West Guns; see their website for the details. Of course the price is a bit higher than what Marlin would charge!

Without any particular insight into the .450 development, Marlin already had all the parts to make that rifle. They don't for a .50. I think they wanted a powerful .45-70 load without the liability of someone shooting the thing in an older, weaker .45-70 and suing them.

The .460 Heavy Express Magnum uses the .348 Winchester case necked up, and it gives a 450 grain bullet 2,375 fps and a 500 grain bullet 2,210. The case is the .348 Winchester from the M71 Winchester rifle blown out and expanded take .458 bullets.Detail are at heavyexpress.com.

jim

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Man, I would love to have a stainless guide gun in .50AK. The only advantage to the .450 Marlin is for the guys who don't handload. But even then there a quite a few companies loading hot 45-70 stuff so that shouldn't matter anyway. I think Big Bore is right though, write them letters and let them know! I bet they got a few letters requesting the stainless guide gun before they came out with it too.

I'm not surprised that you guys doubt it! But its true, he has shot the gun over a chrono, and I'd say he's close on the money.

The gun was a 348win originally and the cartridge was developed from the 460 weatherby. I know that's gonna get some folks started!

I don't want to steal someonelse's thunder so before i say more i'd like to make sure its ok with him to print.

regards
Mike

I just noticed the numbers i quoted are very similar to what hunter jim mentioned for a different lever cartridge... so... are my numbers the only being doubted?

[This message has been edited by Mike Anderson (edited 12-15-2001).]

Seriously they will be on a winner if they listen to us, myself and hunting companions will order one straight away the day they land in Australia.

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Daryl we have another species we call swamp donkey's here in Australia.

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When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

Curtis do you know of anyone producing appropriate bullets for the .50AK. Is it .510 diametre Bullet. Does woodleigh have a suitable projectile?

Reagrds PC

PS Curtis what will be your next firearms purchase???

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I don't have any specs for the .50AK here at college, but I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a .510 diameter like most 50 cals. I don't know off hand who makes bullets for it but I could probably find out w/in a few days, once finals are over.

"Curtis, I am going to write (snail mail) to Marlin this week. I think we all should and maybe just maybe our Xmas wishes will be answered by Marlin. I also would like Hornady to produce the brass and all the other bits we will need."

ditto that, and we can strong arm RCBS to make dies.

as to my next firearms purchase, i haven't got the slightest idea. But i'll let you know as soon as i find out.

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When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

Here's a link to my 50 AK

http://www.angelfire.com/gu/biggbore/50_AK_750_570_475_450.jpg

[This message has been edited by Big Bore (edited 12-16-2001).]

Scott B, the .454 would be good to but I just like bullets with lots of frontal area, I reckon they tear stuff up real good. And that .50 AK within it's range would take just about everything that "walks or crawls".

I saw a topic in African hunting section about using shotties as backup for injured leapords. I reckon a Marlin 1895 GG in .50 AK would just about be perfect for that job.

Marlin would be losing buisness to WWG in not producing this calibre.

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The 454 operates at higher pressures than the Marlin can handle. The 336/1895 works at 44K psi or so, the 454 runs up into the high 50K to 60K range. That is why you will not see the 454 chambered in the current 336/1895 or Win 94 type actions. You will see the 480 Ruger chambered in the 94 soon and probably in the 1894 also as it works well within their pressure ranges.

PC, you are right on the money,I've be talking to many on this forum that think the 50 AK would be questionable to use on African game. I think not,in fact I think it would work great.I known some people getting a 525 grain bullet going around 2000fps.And when I get those 525 I am going to get very near there too.The point is a half of a inch hole does't need expansion,and a 525 hard cast will penetrate for ever. KEV PS; Thank god people are seeing the potential of the 50AK

Can those hard casts you talk about be bought as a seperate component??

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quote:

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Originally posted by Big Bore:
The 454 operates at higher pressures than the Marlin can handle. The 336/1895 works at 44K psi or so, the 454 runs up into the high 50K to 60K range. That is why you will not see the 454 chambered in the current 336/1895 or Win 94 type actions. You will see the 480 Ruger chambered in the 94 soon and probably in the 1894 also as it works well within their pressure ranges.

---

Now that answer I can accept; although I have heard a more blanket answer from others that "nobody" makes a lever action that will handle the 454. That is BS, except that maybe they aren't made anymore...

For instance, Speer data tops out at 45k cup, although I don't know what psi that is. They mention 65,000 psi, but their wording is confusing there.

They show the 300 savage to proof at 46,000 cup, and that was for the model 99 of 1920.

They show 52,000 cup for the 307 and 356 winchester, and they were chambered for the model 94 action eject, and and mention that even Marlin produced a rifle for the 307 and 356 win cartridges.

The 358 win was chambered in their model 88 at 52,000 cup. Savage and Browning made rifles for these, but I don't know if they were bolt or lever guns.

All these were designed (If I'm not mistaken) before WWII, and with todays materials technology it seems workable to do a lever action or even a slide action in 454 (imagine a slide action 454 carbine with a 30 rd clip, arrr arrr ). Is it because there is no set SAAMI spec for the 454? If so, is there a similar hurdle for the 50 AK?

Also, just a bit of hindsight, couldn't Browning also chamber their Mdl 71 (assuming that they are still tooled up to produce M-71s)?

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When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

Regards PC

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WWG will tell you the same thing...matter of fact, it's on their website.

The 450 Marlin, like the 376 Steyr, was DOA.

Introducing a cartriddge based on properietary brass when something else is available is a mistake.

Right you are. It is certainly a mistake to say that NOBODY makes a lever action that can handle 50-60K psi. Browning BLR kind of shoots that in the foot doesn't it? Didn't the Savage 99 also handle cartridges like the 308? I believe part of the problem handling this kind of pressure is the lock-up system. Both Marlin and Winnys lock up at the rear, while the Browning uses a rotating bolt and locking lugs to lock up front. That long bolt on the Marlins and Winnys between the rear lock-up point and the rear of the cartridge head can flex in ways unimagined under high pressure, which simply cannot happen with front lock-up. I do not know this for certain, but I suspect the rear lock up is more the limiting factor in how much pressure they can handle rather than metallurgy.

Really, the 454 would not offer a whole lot, but the unique aspects, in my limited line of thinking, would be:

-> 444M capabilities with more shots
-> The old idea of a good lever gun in the same caliber as your common pistol
-> Ready brass, bullets and ammo.