Last year I went to Zim with a Merkel double in 375 H&H for buffalo. The 375 H&H killed the buffalo all right with the help of my PH's 458 Win Mag. For my next buffalo hunt I'm thinking about stepping up to a bigger caliber in a bolt gun. I worry that I'm not accurate enough with the double and that 375 H&H is not big enough for buffalo. I had a Ruger in 416 Rigby but got rid of it. Now I'm thinking that I'll get one of the new Model 70s in 458 Win Mag or a CZ in 404 Jeffery. What do you think? Is the 375 H&H too small for buffalo? Is there anything wrong with the 458 Win Mag? Is the 404 Jeffery better than the 458 Win Mag?

If you go the 458 Route, might look at a 60's vintage Browning Safari grade with the long extractor. A bit more money than the CZ or Winchester but a very fine carry gun. Under $2K.
A 458WM with 450 Swifts is a nice combination @ 2250 FPS.

Last year prior to my first buff hunt I could not find a 404J so bought a Win M70 in 416 Rem Mag. It's comfortable to shoot, a little heavy to carry but manageable, and put down a buff with one shot. I've been debating on trading it for a 404J but have decided there is no need.

375 H&H is fine for buffalo. It is more the accuate first shot that will do the animal in..
Buffalo and all others as well. Pick your shot carefully and place the bullet. If you shot with irons you may want to consider a LOW power scope. Dont shoot unless you feel right about the shot --- you will pay for a wounded and unretrieved animal so make it count and more importantly if its a good shot, you will find the animal dead or near dead. That said - for followup and larger caliber _ IF SHOT WELL is better to stop the encounter but if well placed
first shot most likely no more shots will be needed, Practice a lot with whatever you choose -that is more important than the rifle or caliber chosen. Training will also make you more confident.

I would suggest the "Classic" .416 Rigby chambering in a CZ.
Send it to AHR and have Wayne massage it a bit. His triggers are great, and the M70-style safety is the best out there.

I have one, and it works!

Rich
DRSS

RGH,

PH Brad Rolston once posted the following, " Use the largest caliber

rifle that you can carry all day and then shoot well at day's end." I

think that's very sound advise. What cal. is your double?

quote:

I would suggest the "Classic" .416 Rigby chambering in a CZ.

I have a life time of reading nothing but praise for this caliber. No first hand African experience, but its a proven ctg. I also have one of AHR reworks and that turned out very well. there are some Polls over on the Hunting forum archive. You might go look at those. I think the 40's did very well.

The 1960's Brownings are on the light side. I dont say its not a good choice. Just FYI its light. Light easy to carry vs heavy and easy to shoot. I think it is 8 pounds. I'd need 10lb for a 458, but you maybe different. The Browning would be a sweet 375 in my book.

If you come to the big bore shoot in central California tomorrow with a few dollars to bribe others to shoot their guns it could help you decide.

I just used a 416 Rigby in Namibia last month to take Elephant, Hippo, and other large animals. I usually like to use a 450 or above caliber, even on Buffalo. The effectiveness of the Rigby surprised me. Yes, you CAN use a 375 on Cape Buff, like some use a 270 on Elk. Not me!

If you are going to take a step up, Then "I" would say, 458 Lott.

Keith

.458 Wins have literaly slaughtered thousands upon thousands of elephant and buffalo. If you hand load, you can do it up right.

Regardless, shot placement is everything.

Shoot several hundred rounds through your rifle before you take to the field for DG, and you will have few worries.

BigFive, the Merkel double is a 375 H&H. I love it but I'm worried that I can't shoot it accurately enough and that something bigger than 375 H&H would be a better idea.
I shot my first buffalo with a 416 Rigby. Then I decided it was an elephant gun, not a buffalo gun so I dropped down the the 375H&H. eezrider, the CZ Safari Magnum lists for over 3k in 404 jeff. I like your idea about loading the 458 WM with a smaller bullet than 500g.
Thank you all.

When I graduated from the .375, I skipped the .416s.

I went straight to the .458 Lott.

Then I moved up to a .500.

Since then I have revisited the .416s.

For Cape buffalo, I like the .500 best of all. It puts them down right now and right there.

I have only taken two buffalo, one with a 375 H&H and one with a 404J. One each is statistically meaningless, however I believe that the 404J definately hit harder. Having said that, I would have no qualms about using a 375 on another buff. Put the bullet where it counts and each will do the job.

If I were you I would probably just get a .458. I have a .375 and a .416 Rigby. The Rigby is rediculously expensive to feed and I have to mail order ammunition. .458 is relatively available and cheaper, whether bought in a store or handloaded.

I choose a 460 Weatherby Magnum, with recharge you can have the 460, the 458s, etc. This caliber 500 grain bullet moving at speed dramatically.


Oscar.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say depends how many more buffalo safaris elephant etc are in your fucture if more then 3 go larger if 3 and under a 375 is all your really going to need unless you desire bigger then go bigger

quote:

Originally posted by R. G. Howard:
Is the 375 H&H too small for buffalo?

Saeed certainly uses his .375/404 to good effect on buff. I'd dare say he could do the same with the H&H. Have you seen all the buff he's piled up in his videos?

375 is enough caliber on buff but it's also the minimum caliber required, so by most game departments,etc. it's just barely enough.
The paradox for most PH's lies in the fact that most clients can't shoot larger calibers straight so you have compound problem with wounded animals, so the 375 then becomes a far better choice for most clients and keeps PH's and company safer.

I shot about 20 buffalos with cartridges from 9,3x74R to 500 Jeffery . IMHO the 375 H&H is a little bit marginal for this hunting . It is a good cartridges for big plain game and in our country's for wild boars and big deers . Today i shoot all my buffalos with the 460WM and 500grs SP bullets from Hornady. I think .458 caliber cartridges are the best choice for this hunting !

I've shot 8 Buff all within 40yrds. The thrill is in getting close anyway! A open sighted .375 double is just fine at that range. What ever makes you think that if you cant shoot a .375 double accurately enough, that a bigger bore will make up for it? Truth be told, you will most likely shoot a bigger caliber even worse. I'd suggest you spend some money on a shooting coach and practice with your .375 double. If you cant put six rounds STANDING into a paper plate at 50 yrds, then GET CLOSER. Determine the range where you can shoot to that level of accuracy and TELL your PH thats how close you need to get. Use Discipline. Dont shoot father than your capable of. With some coaching and practice I'm certain you could pass the 50yrd paper plate test. Come to Vegas and in an afternoon with enough ammo, I'll have you shooting good enough. This wlll cost you much less than a new gun that will make your problem worse not better.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
375 is enough caliber on buff but it's also the minimum caliber required, so by most game departments,etc. it's just barely enough.

That strikes me as some really questionable logic. The just barely enough cartridges seem to me to be the .333's, .303's and .318's commonly used by market hunters and farmers for the first half of the 20th century. Those cartridges are for the most part not legal anymore even though they have killed many thousands of buff. Instead of being barely enough, the .375 has been judged to be enough. You may, like me, like something bigger, but the .375 can do anything with buff that needs to be done, which is what the regulations recognize.

Dean

I shot only two buffalo and neither first shot was very good. Maybe the observation that more practice would be a better investment than a larger caliber. I CAN put six shots in a paper plate at 50 yards but when the chips were down I failed. OK, I need more practice. I bought one of those life size buffalo targets and I intend to wear it out.
Thanks to all.

Not too small, but I have just heard to many personal stories from good game shots that just left me unimpressed w/ the 375h&h on big bulls in close. So I went 404jeffery. Easier to shoot well from any position than the bigger 458 or 458lott, & kills w/ authority. I am certainly no expert, but two buffalo w/ one shot apiece, I am sold. Better than a 458, no, more versatile in the field, a bit more. A 416Rigby or 416Rem would do just as well, but w/ ammo & components now readily available here, why not a 404j?

Oh, yes, Shooting under pressure really sorts things out. thats why competition shooting helps a great deal! As far as making bad first shots, the answer is GET Closer and use fire discipline. Don't shoot unless your certain of your mark. There are lots of Buffalo, you wont run low! If the shots not right, walk away!
Reminds me of the time OL PANO CALAVRIAS ( worst PH in all of Africa) told me to shoot a lion with a 300 ultramag at 300 yrds in the Selous. "Your a good shot, you can do it" I told PANO to stick it in his ear! Got a Lion but at 30yrds. Been in on enough flubbed shots to have a basic rule. I dont shoot DG past 40 yrds and I wont pull the trigger unless things are right! Walking away from IFFY situations has saved my butt many times. I also believe in the double tap. I hit them twice as fast as I can. Reload and wack em again if they have not fallen down yet. Keep dumping lead as fast as possible till nothing moves! I then admire my work and proclaim my shooting as near perfect! The Ph's all well trained of course completely agree and sing my praises! My trophy room OVERFLOWETH! While I would personally prefer a .600Ok for Buff, I honestly would have no issues with using a .375 H&H. It wont be as dramatic, but the buff will run off and die just as certainly!-Rob

If I went bigger than a 375 I'd go 458 lott, shoot 458 win mag ammo, lots of .458 bullets, and plenty for elephant and hippo if you want to shoot anything bigger in time.

I have hunted buffalo with the .375 H&H and killed one with it but was unimpressed and would not do so again. First shot was with a 270 Barnes TSX which hit the spine but did not break it, knocked him down and stunned him for a few seconds and when he got up to run off my second shot was through the ass and it traveled through the guts and the liver, and then into a lung. The third shot was into the spine while he was laying down at about 5 paces when we found him. The .375 did the job but I was left underwhelmed as was my PH. I was very surprised that the first shot did not break the spine. When we cut him open we could see where it had hit the spine and deflected off. Once you dissect a dead buffalo you realize just how heavily built they really are. The above suggestions to move to a .416 or even better a .458 are sage advice. Next time I will use my Lott or my .470 double.

Wasn't it Harry Manners who spent his entire PH career with a M70 375 in hand, including elephante??

what do i know - i haven't been there yet.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
Wasn't it Harry Manners who spent his entire PH career with a M70 375 in hand, including elephante??

what do i know - i haven't been there yet.

You are not getting confused with Harry Belafonte are you

His career sucked!

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
If you are going to take a step up, Then "I" would say, 458 Lott.

Keith

Is that because you have a sweet matching pair of 375 HH and 458 Lott?

Now all you need is a matching 300 HH and 404-375

I took a CZ rechambered to 450 Dakota in December of 2008 to Zimbabwe hunting Buffalo. 500gr bullet at 2370 fps worked just fine. If some well to do member would invite me to to along and pick up the tab, I would be carrying my early Searcy .470 NE Double Rifle instead.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Is that because you have a sweet matching pair of 375 HH and 458 Lott?

They were the two steps that I wanted to take.

IF I take another (or two), it will be a 300Wby or a 500AR.

I do not like half steps.

Keith

I stepped up from 30 caliber directly to .500” caliber; the rifle should be completed by this December. I think my next build will be a 40 caliber companion rifle.

Ammo availability in remote areas, .458 in Africa is like 30-06 in rural US.

Most guys that have .375H&H have plenty of empty brass around so .416Remington makes the most sense. It's an excellent cartridge in it's own right.

I have a 338 RUM, a SAKO 375 H&H, A 416 by Remington , And a CZ 550 American Safari 458 Lott

Another suggestion would be to put either Hi-Viz sights on your double (including a ghost ring rear) or god-Forbid a EOTECH/Aimpoint if your having trouble seeing the sights. Trust me, a more powerful rifle is not the answer! Even though its Non-Traditional, a Eotech or Aimpoint will let you see the sights and the animal at close range and shoot quickly. Stick with your .375 double, just resolve the sight issue.Just shoot the critters in the right place with your .375 H&H and they will die. -Rob

Why not just put a scope on the double? It's been done before.

Get you a bolt action BMG 50 cal and no worries about knockdown and knockout at both ends!!!

Why is it that the .458 is as common in Africa as the .30/06 is in America? Could it be that it works?